No ties anywhere, what to do?

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OmarLittle
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No ties anywhere, what to do?

Postby OmarLittle » Wed Mar 07, 2012 7:15 pm

I have a problem which may or may not be somewhat uncommon: I have few ties to anywhere with a decent (top 50) law school in the region.

I grew up in Rhode Island. I will NOT be going to Roger Williams University for obvious reasons, and to be honest its been so long since I lived in New England I don't really have a network of people there anyways. I'm waiting to hear back from Boston College, but going there at sticker, especially with the high cost of living in Boston, will saddle me with crippling debt if I dont do well enough to get employment right out of school.

Currently I live in upstate New York. I was accepted into SUNY-Buffalo with a small scholarship (5k/year) but I have no interest in living in upstate any longer. NYC is attractive to me, and I know a few people there, but even going to Brooklyn Law School (where I received 26.1k/year) doesn't seem like a good idea, what with their subpar employment data and pending lawsuits. If I get into Cornell it wont be much of an issue, but with my numbers (3.07/169) that is highly unlikely.

At this point I will most likely go to WUSTL, as I got 25k a year from them, and I generally like the Midwest (I have family from OK, and lived in Kansas City for a short while). My question is, what does someone who has moved around so much and has few established ties to anywhere do, when the most common advice is to go somewhere where you have ties to the area? I have no real preferences for where I want to work, basically for the same reason. My heart says WUSTL, but my brain is somewhat hesitant.

Thanks in advance for your help.

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PARTY
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Re: No ties anywhere, what to do?

Postby PARTY » Wed Mar 07, 2012 7:18 pm

this is relevant to my interests.
Last edited by PARTY on Thu Mar 08, 2012 12:13 am, edited 1 time in total.

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bk1
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Re: No ties anywhere, what to do?

Postby bk1 » Wed Mar 07, 2012 7:20 pm

It's just your lack of ties to anyplace but (and you know this) your GPA that is limiting your school choices.

I'd recommend: retake for a 170+, try and snag a T14 through ED, and aim for NYC employment.

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Bronck
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Re: No ties anywhere, what to do?

Postby Bronck » Wed Mar 07, 2012 7:21 pm

Retake and aim for a T14 school so you can get into the NYC market.

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No13baby
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Re: No ties anywhere, what to do?

Postby No13baby » Wed Mar 07, 2012 7:21 pm

You should be fine with the regions WUSTL places into, since you have family and can say honestly that you've lived there. You don't really need ties for NYC either, since it's pretty much accepted that everyone wants to work there for some reason.

ahnhub
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Re: No ties anywhere, what to do?

Postby ahnhub » Wed Mar 07, 2012 7:21 pm

there's a poster called "romothesavior" who is a 2 or 3L at WUSTL. He may have a decent answer for you.

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MTBike
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Re: No ties anywhere, what to do?

Postby MTBike » Wed Mar 07, 2012 7:25 pm

ahnhub wrote:there's a poster called "romothesavior" who is a 2 or 3L at WUSTL. He may have a decent answer for you.


FTFY

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dingbat
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Re: No ties anywhere, what to do?

Postby dingbat » Wed Mar 07, 2012 7:28 pm

ahnhub wrote:there's a poster called "romothesavior" who is a 2 or 3L at WUSTL. He may have a decent answer for you.

He can tell you about WUSTL.
As for the NY market, NY doesnt care about ties, but your best bet is T14. If you can't get into any, Fordham is a real possibility but a risky bet ($70k per year COA and you need to be about top 25% to get biglaw)
Last edited by dingbat on Wed Mar 07, 2012 8:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

OmarLittle
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Re: No ties anywhere, what to do?

Postby OmarLittle » Wed Mar 07, 2012 7:28 pm

Wow, thank you all for the help, that was quick :)

I was curious whether my limited ties to the midwest were sufficient, and unless I'm confused it appears they are, as long as I can convince the firm I intend to stay in the region. For the record, I would be just as happy working for a KC/StL/OKC/Tulsa etc. "Big Law" firm making 80k-100k as I would working in NYC Big Law making almost twice that.

Unfortunately, retaking isn't much of an option, for personal reasons (my mother has health problems and it is VERY important to me that she sees me graduate before she passes, which will almost certainly occur in the next 4 years). I might retake in June just to see how I do, but its unlikely.

Again, thanks for the help, and if anyone else has input/advice I'd love to hear it.

OmarLittle
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Re: No ties anywhere, what to do?

Postby OmarLittle » Wed Mar 07, 2012 7:29 pm

dingbat wrote:
ahnhub wrote:there's a poster called "romothesavior" who is a 2 or 3L at WUSTL. He may have a decent answer for you.

He can tell you about WUSTL but knows very little about the NY market.
NY doesnt care about ties, but your best bet is T14. If you can't get into any, Fordham is a real possibility but a risky bet ($70k per year COA and you need to be about top 25% to get biglaw)


Just for kicks, is WUSTL a possibility for NYC Big Law? As I said, I'm not NYC or bust, but I'm just curious how open my options will be upon graduation, barring acceptance to a T14.

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Bronck
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Re: No ties anywhere, what to do?

Postby Bronck » Wed Mar 07, 2012 7:31 pm

OmarLittle wrote:
dingbat wrote:
ahnhub wrote:there's a poster called "romothesavior" who is a 2 or 3L at WUSTL. He may have a decent answer for you.

He can tell you about WUSTL but knows very little about the NY market.
NY doesnt care about ties, but your best bet is T14. If you can't get into any, Fordham is a real possibility but a risky bet ($70k per year COA and you need to be about top 25% to get biglaw)


Just for kicks, is WUSTL a possibility for NYC Big Law? As I said, I'm not NYC or bust, but I'm just curious how open my options will be upon graduation, barring acceptance to a T14.


Sure, it's possible. But, it's very unlikely. Biglaw out of WUSTL isn't that likely in the first place.

apropos
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Re: No ties anywhere, what to do?

Postby apropos » Wed Mar 07, 2012 10:25 pm

This is relevant to my concerns.

If one has no real ties to any one place--maybe they've moved around a lot, family is dispersed, or is from another country--am I to understand that such a person would have trouble "breaking into" any market other than the huge ones (LA, DC, Chicago, NY, maybe some others)?

Does having a spouse with a job in the region help, or is it assumed that if one were a flight risk, one would be a flight risk with the spouse..?

This whole ties thing is a little foreign to me.

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bk1
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Re: No ties anywhere, what to do?

Postby bk1 » Wed Mar 07, 2012 10:30 pm

apropos wrote:1. If one has no real ties to any one place--maybe they've moved around a lot, family is dispersed, or is from another country--am I to understand that such a person would have trouble "breaking into" any market other than the huge ones (LA, DC, Chicago, NY, maybe some others)?

2. Does having a spouse with a job in the region help, or is it assumed that if one were a flight risk, one would be a flight risk with the spouse..?


1. Yes, that person would likely have trouble outside of the larger markets. Though I imagine if they moved from a foreign country straight to a regional law school they might have a little less trouble (since it's not like they'd be a flight risk with a JD to go back to their home country and they aren't really a flight risk to anywhere else in the country).

2. Yes a spouse in the region definitely helps and is probably a pretty strong tie.

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romothesavior
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Re: No ties anywhere, what to do?

Postby romothesavior » Thu Mar 08, 2012 1:47 am

I see that I'm being paged. :lol:

With 75k from WUSTL, that's not a terrible play if you're interested in the region and have some sort of ties to the Midwest. You'd be looking at around 100k in debt, which is a lot but manageable. We do well in KC, and I think people with ties to places like OK do well too (based on the limited number of people from that region who come here). Having lived in KC will help you, but your ties aren't outstanding. NYC biglaw will be tough without top 1/4 grades (more realistically top 15%), and Chicago has been a tight market in recent years. Have you visited the school?

I agree with bk that a retake might be wise. PM me if you have any personal or specific questions you want me to address.

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whenwin
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Re: No ties anywhere, what to do?

Postby whenwin » Thu Mar 08, 2012 12:53 pm

apropos wrote:This is relevant to my concerns.

If one has no real ties to any one place--maybe they've moved around a lot, family is dispersed, or is from another country--am I to understand that such a person would have trouble "breaking into" any market other than the huge ones (LA, DC, Chicago, NY, maybe some others)?

Does having a spouse with a job in the region help, or is it assumed that if one were a flight risk, one would be a flight risk with the spouse..?

This whole ties thing is a little foreign to me.


.
Last edited by whenwin on Tue Mar 13, 2012 11:37 am, edited 1 time in total.

Jhuen_the_bird
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Re: No ties anywhere, what to do?

Postby Jhuen_the_bird » Thu Mar 08, 2012 1:03 pm

It isn't actually necessary to have strong "ties" in a particular place to go to law school and subsequently work in an area. You MAKE ties and connections. Very few people have legal ties (i.e. mommy or daddy or uncle bernie who can just hire you at the firm where he/she is a partner). The smartest thing, if you have flexibility, is to research and find a place where the legal market isn't completely saturated with lawyers (i.e. NYC).

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traehekat
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Re: No ties anywhere, what to do?

Postby traehekat » Thu Mar 08, 2012 1:04 pm

OmarLittle wrote:Wow, thank you all for the help, that was quick :)

I was curious whether my limited ties to the midwest were sufficient, and unless I'm confused it appears they are, as long as I can convince the firm I intend to stay in the region. For the record, I would be just as happy working for a KC/StL/OKC/Tulsa etc. "Big Law" firm making 80k-100k as I would working in NYC Big Law making almost twice that.

Unfortunately, retaking isn't much of an option, for personal reasons (my mother has health problems and it is VERY important to me that she sees me graduate before she passes, which will almost certainly occur in the next 4 years). I might retake in June just to see how I do, but its unlikely.

Again, thanks for the help, and if anyone else has input/advice I'd love to hear it.


I don't think WUSTL, even with the scholarship, is a great fit for you. WUSTL does well in the smaller Midwest markets, but you will have trouble taking advantage of that without better ties. The one market that doesn't care much about ties is NYC, but I doubt WUSTL is sending a ton of students out there. So you would basically be stuck between a rock and a hard place. By no means am I saying it is impossible that you could nab either NYC OR a smaller Midwest market, because after all WUSTL is still a pretty good school. It's just going to be a little tougher for someone like you.

I'll also add that firms are going to have a tough time believing you have NO ties anywhere. They are going to look into basically where your life is rooted. Where does your family live, where did you do undergrad, where are most of your friends most likely. You may actually feel that you could work anywhere and that you have no real ties, but firms won't be so quick to believe it.




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