kentucky -- no ties -- bad?

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20160810
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Re: kentucky -- no ties -- bad?

Postby 20160810 » Sat Mar 10, 2012 11:11 pm

Sight unseen I can't imagine a more insular market.

lobolawyer
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Re: kentucky -- no ties -- bad?

Postby lobolawyer » Sat Mar 10, 2012 11:53 pm

romothesavior wrote:Gail, you are a joke. A 0L telling 2Ls and 3Ls that ties don't matter that much? Lolok.

ypark87
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Re: kentucky -- no ties -- bad?

Postby ypark87 » Mon Mar 12, 2012 10:49 am

cinephile wrote:
Gail wrote: Most of the previous members are probably too busy. I think that's a good sign though because they probably aren't busy at the soup kitchen, I imagine that they have jobs.


People may have jobs, but that doesn't mean those jobs are JD required, full-time, or pay a decent salary/have benefits. Even if it is a decent job, considering all the debt people take on, they'd have been better off not getting the JD.

Gail wrote:If it doesn't work out, well... That sucks. But you won't die. You'll probably live life as you would have if you never bothered trying. Avoiding debt collectors all along the way.


Nobody argued that you would die by going to law school. Only that you'd be so deeply in debt that you would regret the decision to go to law school. And if it doesn't work out, you're a lot worse off than if you never tried. You look like a flight risk/overqualified for a lot of non-legal positions, and defaulting on your loans (which is what you seem to advocate) has a lot of terrible implications.

But to address the OP, Kentucky is not a good choice for you. Where are you from? Where else were you accepted? Are you willing to retake?


I've lived in Madison since 7th grade, but my parents' addresses are in South Korea and New York City now. Went to college in Iowa. Live in Denver, CO now. Got into DU and Kentucky, Kentucky with the in-state tuition equalizer. Still waiting on a bunch of deferrals. Sooooooooooooo Kentucky = bad, it seems.

ypark87
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Re: kentucky -- no ties -- bad?

Postby ypark87 » Mon Mar 12, 2012 11:00 am

Other states I've lived in are Michigan and Indiana--none of which are Kentucky. Originally seemed like a decent school, buuuut I guess now not so much, if you aren't from there. I guess the answers are pretty darn obvious, but it's a bit frustrating that they would even admit me :P Obviously they want people going there and investing the $$, but still. Anyways, I really do appreciate all the insight on here so far so thanks to all of you.

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Gail
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Re: kentucky -- no ties -- bad?

Postby Gail » Mon Mar 12, 2012 12:40 pm

romothesavior wrote:Gail, you are a joke. A 0L telling 2Ls and 3Ls that ties don't matter that much? Lolok.


My experience with attorneys has been different. I didn't say they don't matter. I just think that you guys overrate it by a few >

Grades >> Law Review > Work Experience > URM >>> Ties

Someone with 2 of the first 4 is going to be in a better position, I think, than someone with 2 of the last 3.


Ask an attorney who he prefers coming into Texas from SMU. Top 10% + Law review vs Top 50% + 2 years work experience + Born and raised in Dallas.

It's relatively easy to blame joblessness on a lack of ties. It's abstract and you'll never know. An easy scapegoat, really.

No, no. It's not because I suck at interviewing or because I was median at TT, it's just the Kentuckians ganging up on me. Hope they all get lung cancer. Is that it?

rad lulz
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Re: kentucky -- no ties -- bad?

Postby rad lulz » Mon Mar 12, 2012 12:58 pm

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Last edited by rad lulz on Mon Apr 22, 2013 1:29 am, edited 1 time in total.

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romothesavior
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Re: kentucky -- no ties -- bad?

Postby romothesavior » Mon Mar 12, 2012 1:18 pm

You mean top 10% + law review does better than median? NO WAI STOP DA PRESSUS!

What a joke man. No shit that's the case. This is a strawman argument if I ever saw one. If you look at my "ties" thread i even explicitly say that top of the class will usually be in the best position regardless of ties. No one denies that is the case. Top of the class at a T1 will have more options. But since odds are you won't be top 5-10%, you probably shouldn't base your decision off of those folks' prospects.

How bout two median students? Or two students on the cusp (say top quarter)? Compare them and get back to me. So tired of your 0L know-it-all attitude backed by horrible analogies.

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jeeptiger09
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Re: kentucky -- no ties -- bad?

Postby jeeptiger09 » Mon Mar 12, 2012 2:27 pm

Gail wrote:It's relatively easy to blame joblessness on a lack of ties. It's abstract and you'll never know. An easy scapegoat, really.

No, no. It's not because I suck at interviewing or because I was median at TT, it's just the Kentuckians ganging up on me. Hope they all get lung cancer. Is that it?


What is this I don't even

romothesavior wrote:So tired of your 0L know-it-all attitude backed by horrible analogies.


I tried to be nice at first, and I know you're trying to be helpful, but you honestly know nothing of what you speak of here, Gail. It may seem to you that your 0L advice is insightful, but it's really not. Your arguments have "full retard" written all over them and your anecdotal evidence is not helpful to the OP. Just admit you're wrong and get off this thread.

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Gail
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Re: kentucky -- no ties -- bad?

Postby Gail » Mon Mar 12, 2012 2:36 pm

Oh forget it.



OP. Going to Kentucky is a bad idea. Don't do it. If you do, realize that you're fighting an uphill battle. Even for kids who do have "ties" it will be hard. Only the top 10% will get good jobs, everyone after that will fight tooth and nail for scraps.

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Re: kentucky -- no ties -- bad?

Postby ypark87 » Mon Mar 12, 2012 2:39 pm

Gail wrote:Oh forget it.



OP. Going to Kentucky is a bad idea. Don't do it. If you do, realize that you're fighting an uphill battle. Even for kids who do have "ties" it will be hard. Only the top 10% will get good jobs, everyone after that will fight tooth and nail for scraps.


Thanks for the advice. Wouldn't it be an uphill battle anywhere outside of Tier 1, though? Not being argumentative, but I am curious. Or I guess--if you had ties and you went to a Tier 2 or 3 school, it might be easier? It seems like that is the jist of the opinions here.

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Gail
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Re: kentucky -- no ties -- bad?

Postby Gail » Mon Mar 12, 2012 2:50 pm

For the record, I was going to exist the thread, but:

ypark87 wrote:
Thanks for the advice. Wouldn't it be an uphill battle anywhere outside of Tier 1, though? Not being argumentative, but I am curious. Or I guess--if you had ties and you went to a Tier 2 or 3 school, it might be easier? It seems like that is the jist of the opinions here.




OK. See. Here's what I was getting at. It wouldn't be easier. OP, I don't think that it would be wise to go to a TT or TTT even if you do have ties because regardless of where you're from, outside of the top 25, your chances of getting a great job are very low without top 20% grades. Outside of tier 1 they are almost non-existent outside of the top 15% of grades.

If you're in the top of your class, it won't matter nearly as much where you're from, hence what I was saying about ties. If you're not in the top of your class, it will only so matter as much as it will get you into small firms that won't pay you enough for your to be able to survive with the amount of debt that you will incur.

Hence my position on ties. Now wait for others to call me a stupid retard with bitch for breath.

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stillwater
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Re: kentucky -- no ties -- bad?

Postby stillwater » Mon Mar 12, 2012 2:55 pm

Not sure what has been so difficult to understand about the "gist" of this thread.

Short version: Don't go to Kentucky if you don't have ties. Period.

ypark87
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Re: kentucky -- no ties -- bad?

Postby ypark87 » Mon Mar 12, 2012 5:03 pm

Gail wrote:For the record, I was going to exist the thread, but:

ypark87 wrote:
Thanks for the advice. Wouldn't it be an uphill battle anywhere outside of Tier 1, though? Not being argumentative, but I am curious. Or I guess--if you had ties and you went to a Tier 2 or 3 school, it might be easier? It seems like that is the jist of the opinions here.




OK. See. Here's what I was getting at. It wouldn't be easier. OP, I don't think that it would be wise to go to a TT or TTT even if you do have ties because regardless of where you're from, outside of the top 25, your chances of getting a great job are very low without top 20% grades. Outside of tier 1 they are almost non-existent outside of the top 15% of grades.

If you're in the top of your class, it won't matter nearly as much where you're from, hence what I was saying about ties. If you're not in the top of your class, it will only so matter as much as it will get you into small firms that won't pay you enough for your to be able to survive with the amount of debt that you will incur.

Hence my position on ties. Now wait for others to call me a stupid retard with bitch for breath.


Ok, I see what you're saying. Thanks for the advice (and everyone else's as well).

Oh, and thanks to everyone who have kept comments civilized and mature and not name-called or done any similar things that I don't think are advantageous to the discussion in any way.

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Re: kentucky -- no ties -- bad?

Postby jswan » Mon Mar 12, 2012 8:08 pm

I will be going to UK this fall and I am actually about to close on a house in the Masterson Station area. If anybody here wants to room with me, PM me and we can figure something out. It's a nice house... 3br + Loft area, 3 bathrooms, 2 car garage, deck and it was built in '98. As far as rent goes, it will be below the market rate because it is 5.54 miles away from the law school. I am only interested in having roommates who will be attending this fall. If you want to know more about me just PM me.

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lbeezy
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Re: kentucky -- no ties -- bad?

Postby lbeezy » Tue Mar 13, 2012 6:01 pm

jswan wrote:I will be going to UK this fall and I am actually about to close on a house in the Masterson Station area. If anybody here wants to room with me, PM me and we can figure something out. It's a nice house... 3br + Loft area, 3 bathrooms, 2 car garage, deck and it was built in '98. As far as rent goes, it will be below the market rate because it is 5.54 miles away from the law school. I am only interested in having roommates who will be attending this fall. If you want to know more about me just PM me.


Enjoy your 45 minute drive to school. My friends who live in Masterson Station take New Circle to Tates Creek, then cut back in toward campus because it actually takes longer to go directly in.

Also -- OP, if you do want to work in those markets, you basically have to go to Kentucky. I have lots of friends who went to UK with no ties to the area and did just fine. Using employment numbers from 2010 is kind of misleading since basically no one got a job there that year from any school at a similar ranking.
Last edited by lbeezy on Tue Mar 13, 2012 6:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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lbeezy
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Re: kentucky -- no ties -- bad?

Postby lbeezy » Tue Mar 13, 2012 6:02 pm

Gail wrote:Oh forget it.



OP. Going to Kentucky is a bad idea. Don't do it. If you do, realize that you're fighting an uphill battle. Even for kids who do have "ties" it will be hard. Only the top 10% will get good jobs, everyone after that will fight tooth and nail for scraps.


This is just not true, at all. Summer employment in Kentucky seems to be the biggest indicator of people getting jobs in Kentucky, top 10% or not. The people who are getting fucked are the ones who worked elsewhere last summer and then decided they wanted to work here after graduation.

That being said -- sure you'll have to do some networking, and it's clearly a regional market. But as to your question about getting a job in Lexington or Louisville without ties -- it's not that big of a deal.

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Re: kentucky -- no ties -- bad?

Postby jswan » Tue Mar 13, 2012 7:41 pm

Enjoy your 45 minute drive to school. My friends who live in Masterson Station take New Circle to Tates Creek, then cut back in toward campus because it actually takes longer to go directly in.



Are you exaggerating to prove a point? If so, that's fine but I never had that drive take me any more than 15 minutes. The route you say your friends take is not a good route (no offense to you or your friends). I think a better route would be to take Leestown to South Forbes/Red Mile/Virginia Ave (essentially same road) to get to campus. The traffic is not usually bad on this route.

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lbeezy
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Re: kentucky -- no ties -- bad?

Postby lbeezy » Tue Mar 13, 2012 9:41 pm

jswan wrote:
Enjoy your 45 minute drive to school. My friends who live in Masterson Station take New Circle to Tates Creek, then cut back in toward campus because it actually takes longer to go directly in.



Are you exaggerating to prove a point? If so, that's fine but I never had that drive take me any more than 15 minutes. The route you say your friends take is not a good route (no offense to you or your friends). I think a better route would be to take Leestown to South Forbes/Red Mile/Virginia Ave (essentially same road) to get to campus. The traffic is not usually bad on this route.


I mean, I lived in the area my entire life, I thought it sounded ridiculous too. But they claim the morning traffic over there is atrocious because of all the traffic coming in Leestown from, well, everywhere.

The 45 minute estimate was theirs, not mine. I asked why they didn't take Alexandria to Old Frankfort and cut in from there (eventually taking Forbes, like you said), but they keep telling me how bad the traffic is.

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Re: kentucky -- no ties -- bad?

Postby traehekat » Wed Mar 14, 2012 10:50 am

Gail wrote:
ypark87 wrote:
So if you are from Kentucky, went away for college, then went back to law school in KY, then there is no way of firms of knowing you have ties if you don't list your HS, so how would they know you're from the state? Or have ties? I guess now I'm confused.

I kind of like what the poster above said about the bigger problem being going to a second-tier school in a small market being more of a problem--thoughts?


Jeeptiger and I are just going to disagree about the relevance of ties, I bet. I personally don't think that they matter quite as much as most people here do and that those who claim they got burned by not having ties are probably not considering something else that held them back (like school, personality, whatever). Don't hang too much on that, though. I'm in the minority. Though I did just recently talk to a hiring partner in Milwaukee that one of my UG professors hooked me up with, he agrees that ties are comparatively negligible.

He might be a minority too, though.


Take everything you hear on TLS with a grain of salt. We're all about as clueless as the next guy/gal. Few here have done LS yet. Most of us are either 0L, 1L, or 2L. Most of the previous members are probably too busy. I think that's a good sign though because they probably aren't busy at the soup kitchen, I imagine that they have jobs.


Ignorance is pervasive here. Even the older members are immature about job expectations. At the end of the day, it's your life. If it doesn't work out, well... That sucks. But you won't die. You'll probably live life as you would have if you never bothered trying. Avoiding debt collectors all along the way.


this is such a horrible post i don't even know where to begin (and thus ill leave it at that).

OP, the short and sufficient answer to your question is yes, attending kentucky without ties would be a very bad decision.




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