Wisconsin vs. Fordham

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billharford
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Wisconsin vs. Fordham

Postby billharford » Wed Mar 07, 2012 4:56 am

I'm a WI resident so tuition will be about $20,000/year, plus about $12,000 in COL for a total $34,000/year. I have yet to hear about scholarships.

Fordham offered me a paltry $5K/year so using their estimated COA I'm looking at ~$65K/year. I have yet to hear back for need based aid, but I nor my family are very wealthy so I'd imagine I'd get something.

In choosing a law school I have two general goals: first, attend a school that will allow me to obtain a job I will enjoy and one which will put me in a financially sound position, and secondly, attend a school out of state, preferably on one of the coasts.

I would like to work biglaw in a major legal market like L.A. or New York, but would settle for midlaw or a moderate size city in CA or the east coast. Really, money isn't a huge thing as long as I can land a job I enjoy and can live relatively comfortably. My larger concern is geographic location. I am dying here in WI. I have always wanted to move to a big city and feel that if I get stuck here I'll go nuts. Relocation isn't really a law school goal so much as a life goal; if I don't get out of here I will regret it for the rest of my life.

This is why I am so torn right now with my decision. I can tough out another 3 years in WI with the hopes of landing biglaw in CA or NYC after graduation, but given the placement statistics outside of WI for the law school here, my chances seem very small. Fordham, on the other hand, immediately grants me my dream of living in NYC and gives me a 1/5-1/4 shot at biglaw, but at a pretty hefty price.

Right now I'm leaning toward WI on the hope that I can perform well here (2 points above LSAT 75%) and be one of the lucky few that escape this place.

Any input would be great.

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JCFindley
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Re: Wisconsin vs. Fordham

Postby JCFindley » Wed Mar 07, 2012 5:00 am

I applied at both late in the cycle and will likely sit out and retake my LSAT anyway but the ONLY reason I applied at WI is that I would like to live there and have ties.....

If you really don't want to stay in the state Wisconsin seems at odds for your goal.

JC

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tww909
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Re: Wisconsin vs. Fordham

Postby tww909 » Wed Mar 07, 2012 5:17 am

well, neither is the answer really, but if you must go to either then go to fordham. you will have a very hard time leaving wisconsin if you go to law school there.

2011 stats, wisconsin's NLJ250 placement was 31/252. Art. III clerkship placement is between 0 and 1 per year. class of '11 had one (that i know of, there may be as many as 2!).

breaking down that 31 number further, the majority are certainly in wisconsin. the only data i have access to is self reported 2L summer employment data from summer 2010 (when those 18 people summered). the east/west coast biglaw placement looks like this:

DC - 1 - Latham

yes, that's it. nobody from the class of 2011 (reported) summering in new york. or san francisco. or LA. or in any big firm in any states except MN, WI, and IL.

if you were to broaden your search, here is the breakdown of market/firm within NLJ 250 for all (reported) members of the class of 2011.

DC - 1 - Latham
Chicago - 3 - McDermott Will, Sidley, Jones Day
Minneapolis - 2 - Dorsey, RKMC
Madison - 6 - Foley, Godfrey (2), Perkins Coie (3)
Milwaukee - 4 - Godfrey, Reinhart (3)

that's 15 people, so i guess 16 more people ended up in NLJ jobs who didn't report their summer jobs to the school's private spreadsheets or got them through 3LOLCI. 96/252 in the 2011 class reported their outcomes.

the picture isn't all that much better the following year, where the picture looks like this

DC - 1 - Latham
Chicago - 3 - Jones Day, Latham, Sidley
Minneapolis - 5 - Gray Plant, Dorsey, Briggs, Kinney, Oppenheimer (not sure if all these are NLJ)
NYC - 3 - Kaye Scholer, Fried Frank, Cleary
Madison - 4 - Godfrey (3), Perkins Coie
Milwaukee - 7 - Godfrey (4), Reinhart (3)

so that's 23 if i'm adding correctly.

now, go forth, make your decision with some real information. and feel free to PM me if you need anything else.

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tww909
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Re: Wisconsin vs. Fordham

Postby tww909 » Wed Mar 07, 2012 5:22 am

oh and a word about LSAT to law school GPA. just because you are above the 75th doesn't mean you will do well in law school, so be careful making a bet based on that.

15% of the class was both above the 75th percentile LSAT and below the top 10% of the class. and actually the answer is more than 15 percent of the class, because i know several people in the top 5% who were not above the 75th.

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dingbat
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Re: Wisconsin vs. Fordham

Postby dingbat » Wed Mar 07, 2012 9:04 am

billharford wrote:I nor my family are very wealthy so I'd imagine I'd get something.
billharford wrote: Really, money isn't a huge thing as long as I can land a job I enjoy and can live relatively comfortably.

Eh, say what? If your family is not very wealthy, money should be a big thing.
Living relatively comfortably is a very relative term. Some people can do so with crushing law school debt, others can't. (depends on what you consider comfortably)
billharford wrote: I have always wanted to move to a big city and feel that if I get stuck here I'll go nuts. Relocation isn't really a law school goal so much as a life goal; if I don't get out of here I will regret it for the rest of my life.

Then do not go to Wisconsin. It is a regional school and while some are able to get out, it's tough. In NY, you'll be behind the T-14, Fordham, the T-30 (more or less) and Cardozo, at the very least (not to mention schools like Brooklyn, NYLS, Hofstra, St. John, Touro and Rutgers, all of which have semi-decent connections in the city)

If you go to Wisconsin, you'd probably have to work at a local firm for a few years before you could lateral to NY.
Basically, you'd have to be top 5% to have any chance in NY.
billharford wrote:Fordham offered me a paltry $5K/year so using their estimated COA I'm looking at ~$65K/year. I have yet to hear back for need based aid, but I nor my family are very wealthy so I'd imagine I'd get something.

Quite possible, Fordham is one of the few schools that has a sizeable amount of need-based aid.
billharford wrote:Fordham, on the other hand, immediately grants me my dream of living in NYC and gives me a 1/5-1/4 shot at biglaw, but at a pretty hefty price.

If NYC Biglaw is your goal, Fordham law is a good option. Fordham has excellent connections, so even if you don't get biglaw, there's a good chance you'll get a mid-law firm in NY; During this economic downturn 1/3 of Fordham graduates ended up at either biglaw or midlaw.
If you add Clerkships into the equation, you're talking more than half, so even without taking self-selection into public interest (1/7th of the class) into consideration, you've easily got a 50-50 shot of landing on your feet.

People harp on Fordham because of its high cost of attendance (it is expensive, and they are not that generous with aid) and seem to only focus on NLJ250 employment data (about 1/4 of the class), but that doesn't tell the full story, because, unlike many other markets, the vast majority of law firms where Fordham grads end up (NYC) pay a high salary.
That doesn't mean it's not a risky proposition, but it's not nearly as bad as the TLS general wisdom thinks it is. Fordham is highly regarded in NY and has a strong alumni network and as long as you're not in the bottom 1/3 of the class, you'll have a reasonable chance at life. BUT, if you are bottom 1/3rd, well, let's just say you can look forward to a future of IBR

tennisking88
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Re: Wisconsin vs. Fordham

Postby tennisking88 » Wed Mar 07, 2012 9:21 am

billharford wrote: Fordham offered me a paltry $5K/year so using their estimated COA I'm looking at ~$65K/year


Assuming you are full time, estimated COA for 2011-2012:

1st, 2nd and 3rd year
Tuition 47,360
Fees 626
Room & Board 18,408
Books & Supplies 1,712
Travel 1,622
Miscellaneous Personal Expenses 3,845
TOTAL 73,573

And it may go up...

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Doorkeeper
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Re: Wisconsin vs. Fordham

Postby Doorkeeper » Wed Mar 07, 2012 10:50 am

What are your stats? Are you still in UG where you can improve your GPA? Can you retake a reapply?

I really, really can't suggest you do Fordham if money is at all an issue.

This being said, if you ultimately want biglaw on the coasts, Wisconsin doesn't make any sense.

Did you apply to UCLA, USC, Georgetown, GW? Get into any of those?

Either way, you might want to re-take and reapply next cycle considering your preferences.

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Panther7
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Re: Wisconsin vs. Fordham

Postby Panther7 » Wed Mar 07, 2012 1:30 pm

If you do well at UW, you will make it to New York. I know several people who have high-paying summer jobs in New York this summer. I'm not sure where those previous numbers were pulled from, but I can name 3 fellow classmates who have biglaw summer associate positions in NYC off the top of my head. And I'm sure there are more. Granted they are all like top 30%, but I think that's pretty much a requirement for most schools.

Just clearing up some obvious misconceptions flying around this thread.

Our weak placement numbers for the coasts is mostly self-selecting. Those who want to go to the coasts are able to. The way our school works, however, makes you a lot of Wisconsin connections (and the bar waiver retains a lot of people). It's not that our school DOESN'T place outside, it's mostly that students DECIDE to stay.

MrAnon
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Re: Wisconsin vs. Fordham

Postby MrAnon » Wed Mar 07, 2012 1:39 pm

Go to Wisconsin. If you do well enough you can have any job on the coast you want, within reason. If you do poorly then you are much better off for having never gone to Fordham because you would have gotten trounced there too and no job for you afterward.

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thexfactor
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Re: Wisconsin vs. Fordham

Postby thexfactor » Wed Mar 07, 2012 2:09 pm

MrAnon wrote:Go to Wisconsin. If you do well enough you can have any job on the coast you want, within reason. If you do poorly then you are much better off for having never gone to Fordham because you would have gotten trounced there too and no job for you afterward.

Easy for you to say. "well enough" for wisconsin is top 10%-5% to have a chance at jobs on the coast.
Fordham gives you a 25% chance at biglaw.

Yes, but the problem is if the OP finishes between the top 10-25% at Wisc. He would be kicking himself for not going to fordham.

My advice is to retake. If not, go to Fordham for a year, if you aren't in the top 1/3 after first year, then drop out. Since most almost all biglaw jobs are given out between 1st and 2nd year, if you are in the bottom 1/3 then drop out and save money.

dissonance1848
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Re: Wisconsin vs. Fordham

Postby dissonance1848 » Wed Mar 07, 2012 2:19 pm

If its between Wisconsin and Fordham, it has to be Wisconsin. Only other option here is retake.

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Panther7
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Re: Wisconsin vs. Fordham

Postby Panther7 » Wed Mar 07, 2012 2:21 pm

thexfactor wrote:
MrAnon wrote:Go to Wisconsin. If you do well enough you can have any job on the coast you want, within reason. If you do poorly then you are much better off for having never gone to Fordham because you would have gotten trounced there too and no job for you afterward.

Easy for you to say. "well enough" for wisconsin is top 10%-5% to have a chance at jobs on the coast.
Fordham gives you a 25% chance at biglaw.

Yes, but the problem is if the OP finishes between the top 10-25% at Wisc. He would be kicking himself for not going to fordham.

My advice is to retake. If not, go to Fordham for a year, if you aren't in the top 1/3 after first year, then drop out. Since most almost all biglaw jobs are given out between 1st and 2nd year, if you are in the bottom 1/3 then drop out and save money.


I think you underestimate our placement by quite a bit.

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thexfactor
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Re: Wisconsin vs. Fordham

Postby thexfactor » Wed Mar 07, 2012 2:27 pm

Panther7 wrote:
thexfactor wrote:
MrAnon wrote:Go to Wisconsin. If you do well enough you can have any job on the coast you want, within reason. If you do poorly then you are much better off for having never gone to Fordham because you would have gotten trounced there too and no job for you afterward.

Easy for you to say. "well enough" for wisconsin is top 10%-5% to have a chance at jobs on the coast.
Fordham gives you a 25% chance at biglaw.

Yes, but the problem is if the OP finishes between the top 10-25% at Wisc. He would be kicking himself for not going to fordham.

My advice is to retake. If not, go to Fordham for a year, if you aren't in the top 1/3 after first year, then drop out. Since most almost all biglaw jobs are given out between 1st and 2nd year, if you are in the bottom 1/3 then drop out and save money.


I think you underestimate our placement by quite a bit.

No i don't. I think you overestimate wisc's placement. 3 people going to NYC doesn't prove anything. They are all prob on LR top 5%.
Check Wisconsin's Nlj250 stat of 7% and tell me I am underestimating your school's placement.
http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNL ... slreturn=1

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tww909
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Re: Wisconsin vs. Fordham

Postby tww909 » Wed Mar 07, 2012 2:46 pm

thexfactor wrote:
Panther7 wrote:
thexfactor wrote:
MrAnon wrote:Go to Wisconsin. If you do well enough you can have any job on the coast you want, within reason. If you do poorly then you are much better off for having never gone to Fordham because you would have gotten trounced there too and no job for you afterward.

Easy for you to say. "well enough" for wisconsin is top 10%-5% to have a chance at jobs on the coast.
Fordham gives you a 25% chance at biglaw.

Yes, but the problem is if the OP finishes between the top 10-25% at Wisc. He would be kicking himself for not going to fordham.

My advice is to retake. If not, go to Fordham for a year, if you aren't in the top 1/3 after first year, then drop out. Since most almost all biglaw jobs are given out between 1st and 2nd year, if you are in the bottom 1/3 then drop out and save money.


I think you underestimate our placement by quite a bit.

No i don't. I think you overestimate wisc's placement. 3 people going to NYC doesn't prove anything. They are all prob on LR top 5%.
Check Wisconsin's Nlj250 stat of 7% and tell me I am underestimating your school's placement.
http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNL ... slreturn=1


this is exactly right. panther - what are you basing this undestimation thesis on?

i posted the breakdown of firms and markets earlier ITT. wisconsin's big law placement is bad. there is no need to deny that. even more, wisconsin's out of state big law placement is virtually nonexistant.

i actually understated how bad it is in my post of the stats. i must have looked at the class of '10 NLJ placement #s. all but 3 of the people who ended up in NLJ firms reported their summer job to career services, meaning at most there could be 4 people in the entire class who worked at places the OP wants to work at.

as xfactor suspected all 3 of the NYC placements last year are people on law review, and one of them is the EIC.

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Panther7
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Re: Wisconsin vs. Fordham

Postby Panther7 » Wed Mar 07, 2012 4:59 pm

I'm telling you that you're misreading the stats... Those are actual jobs, not a judgment of the school's ability to place. From personal experience, it is not LIMITED to the top 7% of students. We just have few students that pursue the proverbial "big law" or clerkships. In actual experience and knowledge (talking to classmates and personal experiences), I think anywhere in the top ~30% you can be competitive for a NLJ250 job. I was stating your comment about the 10-25% range not being able to compete for good jobs is complete BS and sounds like something you just pulled out of nowhere.

I'm not saying we have the best placement stats in the world... on paper, they look like crap. But they aren't as bad as the chart you linked me would lead one to believe. A lot of our good students choose to do criminal law, and the most prestigious 1L jobs at our school are generally considered to be non-firm criminal positions.

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dingbat
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Re: Wisconsin vs. Fordham

Postby dingbat » Wed Mar 07, 2012 5:16 pm

Panther7 wrote:I'm telling you that you're misreading the stats... Those are actual jobs, not a judgment of the school's ability to place. From personal experience, it is not LIMITED to the top 7% of students. We just have few students that pursue the proverbial "big law" or clerkships. In actual experience and knowledge (talking to classmates and personal experiences), I think anywhere in the top ~30% you can be competitive for a NLJ250 job. I was stating your comment about the 10-25% range not being able to compete for good jobs is complete BS and sounds like something you just pulled out of nowhere.

I'm not saying we have the best placement stats in the world... on paper, they look like crap. But they aren't as bad as the chart you linked me would lead one to believe. A lot of our good students choose to do criminal law, and the most prestigious 1L jobs at our school are generally considered to be non-firm criminal positions.

So a school that doesn't typically feed into biglaw jobs has good placement power at biglaw firms? Next you'll tell me that a firm that doesn't normally place into a certain market has good placement power in said market.

We're talking about professional schools here; if the school doesn't really feed into a particular field (even if it's predominantly self selection) don't go to that school if you want to work in that field.
It's like going to law school if you want to be a consultant - yes, it s possible, yes people do it, no it's not the way to do it. If you want to be a consultant, go to business school. Big you want to go do biglaw, go to a school that feeds into biglaw.
It's not rocket science, people

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tww909
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Re: Wisconsin vs. Fordham

Postby tww909 » Wed Mar 07, 2012 9:04 pm

Panther7 wrote:I'm telling you that you're misreading the stats... Those are actual jobs, not a judgment of the school's ability to place. From personal experience, it is not LIMITED to the top 7% of students. We just have few students that pursue the proverbial "big law" or clerkships. In actual experience and knowledge (talking to classmates and personal experiences), I think anywhere in the top ~30% you can be competitive for a NLJ250 job. I was stating your comment about the 10-25% range not being able to compete for good jobs is complete BS and sounds like something you just pulled out of nowhere.

I'm not saying we have the best placement stats in the world... on paper, they look like crap. But they aren't as bad as the chart you linked me would lead one to believe. A lot of our good students choose to do criminal law, and the most prestigious 1L jobs at our school are generally considered to be non-firm criminal positions.


okay this depends on what you mean by "can be competitive." i took the 2011 grads who did 2L NLJ summers. 16 reported their summer jobs to career services (18 grads of 2011 class ended up in NLJ jobs).

11/16 were in the top ~11% to get invited to order of the coif. 9/16 graduated magna cum laude or summa cum laude. only 3 were no graduation honors and no law review, and two of those did diversity fellowships.

that means exactly 2, non diverse, non law review, non top 11% people were hired in big law 2L summer (with the proviso once again that this is only self reported, though significantly more detailed than publicly available, data). for the OP, does it really make sense to bet that he will be one of 11 of the top 28 students who gets big law? or to hope that he will be one of the 2 (4 if (s)he's diverse) of the remaining ~222 students in the class who don't get big law positions.

obviously many people in the top 30% will feel like they're competitive for big law jobs because they'll get preselects at OCI. between godfrey, reinhart, michael best, foley, etc. preselects, many people in the top 30% (particularly with law review) should be fine to get some interviews. callbacks get narrower, and if you're something like the top 15% you should be pretty safe to get a callback or two. but if you want to be sure of getting an NLJ offer (which is exactly what OP wants) you aren't secure unless you are in the top 5-10%.

in the end, panther you're right that some good students choose to go into criminal law or do other non-big law things. by my count in the class of 2011 though, only 3 of the top 17 students appear to not be working in law firms, with 9/17 doing big law, 4/17 doing small firms, and 1/17 clerking. i doubt pretty strongly that all 4 of those doing small firms didn't pursue big law. furthermore, the guy who's clerking probably did a big law SA (though he didn't report employment to CSO). that means that likely 3/17 top students self selected away from the firm route. i simply don't believe that anybody outside the top 10% has anything more than an extremely small chance at getting a big firm position.

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romothesavior
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Re: Wisconsin vs. Fordham

Postby romothesavior » Wed Mar 07, 2012 9:10 pm

billharford wrote:I would like to work biglaw in a major legal market like L.A. or New York, but would settle for midlaw or a moderate size city in CA or the east coast.

Then neither of these is a good option. Either start enjoying Wisconsin or retake.

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Re: Wisconsin vs. Fordham

Postby romothesavior » Wed Mar 07, 2012 9:15 pm

thexfactor wrote:No i don't. I think you overestimate wisc's placement. 3 people going to NYC doesn't prove anything. They are all prob on LR top 5%.
Check Wisconsin's Nlj250 stat of 7% and tell me I am underestimating your school's placement.
http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNL ... slreturn=1

You're not wrong. Going to Wisconsin with the primary goal of a coast (especially if you are a WI native) is just not smart. It will take top 5-10% grades to have a realistic shot. Still, I think this is going to be a long, annoying year of telling people not to cite the most recent NLJ 250 data as somehow being indicative of the current market. Things are still bad, but better than what that list indicates, and it doesn't give an accurate picture of what my class just went through (or what the 1Ls and 0Ls will likely go through).

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Re: Wisconsin vs. Fordham

Postby MrAnon » Wed Mar 07, 2012 9:19 pm

thexfactor wrote:
MrAnon wrote:Go to Wisconsin. If you do well enough you can have any job on the coast you want, within reason. If you do poorly then you are much better off for having never gone to Fordham because you would have gotten trounced there too and no job for you afterward.

Easy for you to say. "well enough" for wisconsin is top 10%-5% to have a chance at jobs on the coast.
Fordham gives you a 25% chance at biglaw.

Yes, but the problem is if the OP finishes between the top 10-25% at Wisc. He would be kicking himself for not going to fordham.

My advice is to retake. If not, go to Fordham for a year, if you aren't in the top 1/3 after first year, then drop out. Since most almost all biglaw jobs are given out between 1st and 2nd year, if you are in the bottom 1/3 then drop out and save money.


Splitting hairs.

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tww909
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Re: Wisconsin vs. Fordham

Postby tww909 » Wed Mar 07, 2012 9:29 pm

romothesavior wrote:
thexfactor wrote:No i don't. I think you overestimate wisc's placement. 3 people going to NYC doesn't prove anything. They are all prob on LR top 5%.
Check Wisconsin's Nlj250 stat of 7% and tell me I am underestimating your school's placement.
http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNL ... slreturn=1

You're not wrong. Going to Wisconsin with the primary goal of a coast (especially if you are a WI native) is just not smart. It will take top 5-10% grades to have a realistic shot. Still, I think this is going to be a long, annoying year of telling people not to cite the most recent NLJ 250 data as somehow being indicative of the current market. Things are still bad, but better than what that list indicates, and it doesn't give an accurate picture of what my class just went through (or what the 1Ls and 0Ls will likely go through).


The 3 people to NYC is actually data from OCI '10 for class of '12. In that year there are the 3 who summered in NYC and 1 who went to Latham DC.

So yes, it's better than the 2011 nlj numbers suggest, but digging down in the data shows that most of the difference between 2011 nlj and past years is mostly accounted for by godfrey and reinhart taking fewer from class of '11. there were never many people getting hired on the coasts from UW and all of those hired last year were top 5-10% and law review.

I can't comment on this year's NYC/DC placement at UW because I've since transferred, but all the friends I have doing big law (and I would say I know at least half the top 5-10% people's firms) are going to Chicago or staying in Wisconsin.

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dood
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Re: Wisconsin vs. Fordham

Postby dood » Wed Mar 07, 2012 9:37 pm

OMFG. I CANT BELIEVE THE SHIT IM READING.

dogg i cant even begin to explain how fucked u will be if u go to WI. no, i mean i seriously cannot type it out - please PM me with name and # and i will call u to drop some fucking knowledge on u.

billharford
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Re: Wisconsin vs. Fordham

Postby billharford » Wed Mar 07, 2012 9:43 pm

In general I've always wondered how much self selection figures into geographical placement post-grad. The advice, "If you want to practice in region X, go to region X law school" saturates this forum and seems very intuitive. This advice is then backed up with stats of employment placement. If people are taking this advice, which I think many do, the amount of students going to, for example, WI intending to practice in CA would be very small, while the number of those wanting to practice in the Midwest will be significantly higher. I feel that a schools ability to place in other markets is improperly represented by actual placement numbers because of the large skew toward the area in which the school is located. Until these stats are accompanied by students geographical preferences, they don't tell the whole story. That being said, I'm not ignorant. Going to Fordham would certainly afford me a better chance of getting a job in NY than would a degree from WI. For me it's a matter of analyzing the risk of a significant financial burden vs. the prospect of being stuck in an undesirable geographic location; an analysis that is fairly difficult given the difference of the objects being considered.

To clarify, my preference for biglaw diminishes along with diminished financial burden. Having no loan debt I would still pick biglaw given the opportunity, however, if I had low amounts of debt I would be much more willing to take midlaw or smaller for the sake of geographical location. Of course if I incur $200K worth of debt, biglaw becomes a much greater priority. I'd much rather be working small time making $60K in CA with little debt than being in NY struggling with $200K debt. So the biglaw placement of WI is less important than raw geographical placement outside of the Midwest (given I get some $ from WI since $100K is still a lot of debt).

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dood
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Re: Wisconsin vs. Fordham

Postby dood » Wed Mar 07, 2012 9:46 pm

Panther7 wrote:I'm telling you that you're misreading the stats... Those are actual jobs, not a judgment of the school's ability to place. From personal experience, it is not LIMITED to the top 7% of students. We just have few students that pursue the proverbial "big law" or clerkships. In actual experience and knowledge (talking to classmates and personal experiences), I think anywhere in the top ~30% you can be competitive for a NLJ250 job. I was stating your comment about the 10-25% range not being able to compete for good jobs is complete BS and sounds like something you just pulled out of nowhere.

I'm not saying we have the best placement stats in the world... on paper, they look like crap. But they aren't as bad as the chart you linked me would lead one to believe. A lot of our good students choose to do criminal law, and the most prestigious 1L jobs at our school are generally considered to be non-firm criminal positions.


ahahahahaha RIGHT....so the 50% of WI law's class last year who couldnt get ANY JOB AT ALL - i guess they were all "competitive" but they chose to do nothing at all. GENIUS!

yea buddy, u'r an ass clown. i have 3 WI law friends who graduated either last year or is a 3L now.
one is tending bar at the KK
one is driving a madison eco-cab (apparently a prius)
the "lucky one" is doing shit law DUI defense (what u call "crim positions") for $18/hr

btw384
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Re: Wisconsin vs. Fordham

Postby btw384 » Thu Mar 08, 2012 12:30 pm

Given the fact that you type like a 12 year old, I don't doubt that your friends could not find work.




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