BC versus BU Scorecard

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TLS_noobie
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BC versus BU Scorecard

Postby TLS_noobie » Tue Mar 06, 2012 5:13 pm

So, I have been doing research on BC versus BU and after rummaging through the TLS forums I have seen a few scorecard-like posts. I just thought I would contribute to the forums with my own research that is up to date. I really want others to chime in and vet the data, give relevant anecdotes, or just discuss their own research. Comparisons to other schools are welcome as well.

I wanted to focus primarily on big law for this but if other research has been done that includes clerkships or PI please contribute.

Financing law school is arguably the most important factor when making the decision and so it is important to note that despite one school winning over the other in this scorecard, the difference between both BU and BC is marginal at best.

USNWR RANKINGS
BC USNWR 2009/2010/2011: 26/28/27
BU USNWR 2009/2010/2011: 20/22/22
Source: http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandr ... w-rankings

NLJ GO-TO SCHOOLS RANKINGS
BC Ranking 2009/2010/2011: 19/16/18
BU Ranking 2009/2010/2011: 20/17/21
Source 2009: http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNL ... 2443758843
Source 2010: http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNL ... 2483173162
Source 2011: http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNL ... 2543436520

Percentage Grads at NLJ 250 (from Go-To Schools Ranking List)
BC 2010/2011: 33.58/21.75
BU 2010/2011: 30.00/17.84
Source 2010: http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNL ... 2483173162
Source 2011: http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNL ... 2543436520

# of NALP Directory Law Firms Recruiting at BC/BU Paying 145k Entry Level
BC: 104
BU: 89
BC Source: --LinkRemoved--
BU Source: --LinkRemoved--

LST % Employed at 9 Months (C/O 2009)
BC: 94%
BU: 94%
BC Source: --LinkRemoved--
BU Source: --LinkRemoved--

LST Salary Quartiles (C/O 2009 about 55% reporting)
BC 25%/50%/75%: 145k/160k/160k
BU 25%/50%/75%: 111k/160k/160k
BC Source: --LinkRemoved--
BU Source: --LinkRemoved--

LST Average Debt Upon Graduation (C/O 2009)
BC: $103,765
BU: $103,980
BC Source: --LinkRemoved--
BU Source: --LinkRemoved--

2012 Approximate Tuition
BC: $41,590
BU: $41,780
BC Source: http://www.bc.edu/schools/law/admission/finaid.html
BU Source: http://www.bu.edu/law/prospective/finan ... tion_fees/

The data in this may be inaccurate and if it is please correct it in subsequent replies. I am very interested in average living expenses for both schools (living in Boston versus living in Newton, or where ever law students live for either campus). Another important factor not included is overall "niceness" of the campuses. I have heard that BC has a really nice school but elaboration on this subject would be greatly appreciated.

In conclusion, BC wins as far as big law placement is concerned, but by a very small margin. The TLS conventional wisdom typically says that BC and BU are interchangeable and statistically speaking it seems that way. This is just looking at NLJ 250 firms though and so it would be really neat to see how both schools do with market-paying firms outside of the NLJ250 as well as looking at influence in different regions (I have heard that BU does better for NYC placement than BC but BC is best at New England placement, but this is anecdotal and may be wrong). Please let me know how accurate/inaccurate this scorecard is and contribute more info if you have some.

Thanks!
TLS_noobie
Last edited by TLS_noobie on Tue Mar 06, 2012 7:41 pm, edited 2 times in total.

handsonthewheel
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Re: BC versus BU Scorecard

Postby handsonthewheel » Tue Mar 06, 2012 5:48 pm

All of these differences are far too small to matter.

bobbyh1919
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Re: BC versus BU Scorecard

Postby bobbyh1919 » Tue Mar 06, 2012 5:49 pm

TLS_noobie wrote: the difference between both BU and BC is marginal at best.


Agreed.

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TLS_noobie
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Re: BC versus BU Scorecard

Postby TLS_noobie » Tue Mar 06, 2012 5:59 pm

handsonthewheel wrote:All of these differences are far too small to matter.


I agree with this. But, there always seems to be a BC vs BU thread that pops up every other week and so I figured I would make a thread that pooled as much data/info as I could find. I wanted to declare a winner but as I stated in my comments, the difference between the two is very very small and the true determinant should be how much of a scholly one gives out. Nevertheless, USNWR feels that there is a big enough difference between the two to rank one 5 spots higher than the other, so I figured I would try to expose how big of a difference there really is...and came up with not so big at all. Actually, BC fairs slightly better than BU for placement (slightly.) but perhaps USNWR has some less visible criteria.

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JusticeHarlan
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Re: BC versus BU Scorecard

Postby JusticeHarlan » Tue Mar 06, 2012 6:13 pm

This is pretty stupid.

kams
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Re: BC versus BU Scorecard

Postby kams » Tue Mar 06, 2012 6:14 pm

I don't think that many really think BC is worse than BU. The only person who really cares is one poster on TLS (who goes by the names "small law" "Informative" or "Slevin Kelevra 2011" and possibly "TLS_noobie") who keeps making names complaining about how perturbed he is that everyone thinks BU is better than BC.

Both schools are fine, go to the one that gives you more money.

Boggs
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Re: BC versus BU Scorecard

Postby Boggs » Tue Mar 06, 2012 6:39 pm

Pretty small margins between the two. But interesting nonetheless. If I was choosing between them, I'd find this interesting and helpful.

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Rawlberto
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Re: BC versus BU Scorecard

Postby Rawlberto » Tue Mar 06, 2012 6:52 pm

Harvard.

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TLS_noobie
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Re: BC versus BU Scorecard

Postby TLS_noobie » Tue Mar 06, 2012 7:09 pm

kams wrote:I don't think that many really think BC is worse than BU. The only person who really cares is one poster on TLS (who goes by the names "small law" "Informative" or "Slevin Kelevra 2011" and possibly "TLS_noobie") who keeps making names complaining about how perturbed he is that everyone thinks BU is better than BC.

Both schools are fine, go to the one that gives you more money.


I don't have an interest in one school being better than the other. I am actually in the middle of trying to decide between the two schools and figured sharing the info I have would help others like me. Sorry if this was a waste of your time, I certainly don't mean to pollute the TLS forums.

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Bronck
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Re: BC versus BU Scorecard

Postby Bronck » Tue Mar 06, 2012 7:12 pm

JusticeHarlan wrote:This is pretty stupid.

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TLS_noobie
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Re: BC versus BU Scorecard

Postby TLS_noobie » Tue Mar 06, 2012 7:22 pm

Bronck wrote:
JusticeHarlan wrote:This is pretty stupid.


Lol, okay, I guess the consensus has been made; this scorecard is "pretty stupid". My attempt to affirm TLS wisdom and debunk a myth was met with the reality that perhaps the myth (that one school is much better than the other) just isn't all that prevalent. Well, at the very least, this is a thread that holds some data/info that may be useful for those interested in BC or BU.

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JusticeHarlan
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Re: BC versus BU Scorecard

Postby JusticeHarlan » Tue Mar 06, 2012 7:26 pm

TLS_noobie wrote:
Bronck wrote:
JusticeHarlan wrote:This is pretty stupid.


Lol, okay, I guess the consensus has been made; this scorecard is "pretty stupid". My attempt to affirm TLS wisdom and debunk a myth was met with the reality that perhaps the myth (that one school is much better than the other) just isn't all that prevalent. Well, at the very least, this is a thread that holds some data/info that may be useful for those interested in BC or BU.

I think your narrative in the OP, beneath the whole scorecard thing, was pretty accurate: "The TLS conventional wisdom typically says that BC and BU are interchangeable and statistically speaking it seems that way" is a reasonable conclusion. I just think the entire scorecard thing, above that, is a silly way to get to that conclusion. If you had just put "too close to call" instead of "Winner: BC" for those categories, it would have gone over a little better. Just my two cents.

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stillwater
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Re: BC versus BU Scorecard

Postby stillwater » Tue Mar 06, 2012 7:28 pm

While some of the criticism has been a little harsh, I think if anything this just affirms the conventional wisdom- at least on TLS- that these schools are fungible.

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TLS_noobie
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Re: BC versus BU Scorecard

Postby TLS_noobie » Tue Mar 06, 2012 7:37 pm

stillwater wrote:While some of the criticism has been a little harsh, I think if anything this just affirms the conventional wisdom- at least on TLS- that these schools are fungible.


Agreed.

JusticeHarlan wrote:
TLS_noobie wrote:
Bronck wrote:
JusticeHarlan wrote:This is pretty stupid.


Lol, okay, I guess the consensus has been made; this scorecard is "pretty stupid". My attempt to affirm TLS wisdom and debunk a myth was met with the reality that perhaps the myth (that one school is much better than the other) just isn't all that prevalent. Well, at the very least, this is a thread that holds some data/info that may be useful for those interested in BC or BU.

I think your narrative in the OP, beneath the whole scorecard thing, was pretty accurate: "The TLS conventional wisdom typically says that BC and BU are interchangeable and statistically speaking it seems that way" is a reasonable conclusion. I just think the entire scorecard thing, above that, is a silly way to get to that conclusion. If you had just put "too close to call" instead of "Winner: BC" for those categories, it would have gone over a little better. Just my two cents.


I fixed it so that there is no declared winner for each category. Looking back on it, it did seem that I was just trying to flame BU, which is not what I intended.

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Tiago Splitter
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Re: BC versus BU Scorecard

Postby Tiago Splitter » Tue Mar 06, 2012 9:33 pm

The fact that you can go through this exercise without a clear winner should tell you all you need to know.

handsonthewheel
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Re: BC versus BU Scorecard

Postby handsonthewheel » Tue Mar 06, 2012 9:49 pm

TLS_noobie wrote:Lol, okay, I guess the consensus has been made; this scorecard is "pretty stupid". My attempt to affirm TLS wisdom and debunk a myth was met with the reality that perhaps the myth (that one school is much better than the other) just isn't all that prevalent. Well, at the very least, this is a thread that holds some data/info that may be useful for those interested in BC or BU.


I just think the fact that people scrutinize over the most minute differences in the data is ridiculous.

What are the chances that the 2% difference between schools, for a hypothetical example, in employment will (1) be the same the year you are affected and (2) provide the difference that means you getting a job? My guess is pretty much none at all. In a class of 200-300, 2% is 4-6 people. What are the chances you'll be one of those kids? What about the myriad factors that are more important than that?

I think it's a bit ridiculous to treat the schools as any different other than in qualitative ways. Maybe I'm out of my mind.

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TLS_noobie
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Re: BC versus BU Scorecard

Postby TLS_noobie » Tue Mar 06, 2012 10:44 pm

handsonthewheel wrote:
TLS_noobie wrote:Lol, okay, I guess the consensus has been made; this scorecard is "pretty stupid". My attempt to affirm TLS wisdom and debunk a myth was met with the reality that perhaps the myth (that one school is much better than the other) just isn't all that prevalent. Well, at the very least, this is a thread that holds some data/info that may be useful for those interested in BC or BU.


I just think the fact that people scrutinize over the most minute differences in the data is ridiculous.

What are the chances that the 2% difference between schools, for a hypothetical example, in employment will (1) be the same the year you are affected and (2) provide the difference that means you getting a job? My guess is pretty much none at all. In a class of 200-300, 2% is 4-6 people. What are the chances you'll be one of those kids? What about the myriad factors that are more important than that?

I think it's a bit ridiculous to treat the schools as any different other than in qualitative ways. Maybe I'm out of my mind.


You are not out of your mind at all! This was the point of the thread. :) Anyone who claims that one school is better than the other will be hard pressed to find data telling of this (as is exemplified by the data above in the OP). I was doing my original research on the schools without the knowledge of how TLS felt about the schools and I came to the conclusion that they are fairly interchangeable. I really wanted to ask the TLS community about the other factors that weren't included in my research. As I said before in my comments, I want to find out about the campus and cost of living at either school (if the cost of living is that much different between the two).

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flem
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Re: BC versus BU Scorecard

Postby flem » Wed Mar 07, 2012 9:29 am

It all comes down to whether you prefer to study in the tower of doom or not. That's the only major difference.

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TLS_noobie
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Re: BC versus BU Scorecard

Postby TLS_noobie » Wed Mar 07, 2012 9:39 am

As far as anecdotal evidence is concerned, how does BU/BC fair in comparison to other non-t14s with BigLaw? The numbers seem to place BU/BC at a pretty prime position with only a few schools outperforming them (USC?). For instance, Notre Dame is considered a peer school and how does ND seem to be doing in comparison to BU/BC? Fordham? I've looked at the numbers but it would be cool to know from those who are actually going to these schools with some up to date anecdotal information.




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