Southwestern vs. Loyola LA vs. UCLA

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Hawking
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Re: Southwestern vs. Loyola LA vs. UCLA

Postby Hawking » Mon Mar 05, 2012 7:44 pm

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071816
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Re: Southwestern vs. Loyola LA vs. UCLA

Postby 071816 » Mon Mar 05, 2012 8:50 pm

Hawking wrote:to me it feels like the posts have mostly been about not going to UCLA at sticker, but UCLA @ sticker is by far the most selected option in the poll haha. What gives?


While paying sticker at UCLA isn't necessarily advisable, it is the best option you have.

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romothesavior
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Re: Southwestern vs. Loyola LA vs. UCLA

Postby romothesavior » Mon Mar 05, 2012 9:13 pm

chimp wrote:
Hawking wrote:to me it feels like the posts have mostly been about not going to UCLA at sticker, but UCLA @ sticker is by far the most selected option in the poll haha. What gives?


While paying sticker at UCLA isn't necessarily advisable, it is the best option you have.

This.

Don't mistake our choosing UCLA for "Go to UCLA." I think most of us would have trouble advising Berkeley at sticker these days, let alone UCLA. I can guarantee you if you added "Retake/Reapply" to the list, it would be the convincing winner of your poll.

Hawking
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Re: Southwestern vs. Loyola LA vs. UCLA

Postby Hawking » Mon Mar 05, 2012 9:51 pm

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Danteshek
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Re: Southwestern vs. Loyola LA vs. UCLA

Postby Danteshek » Mon Mar 05, 2012 10:06 pm

(1) I am a Loyola 3L

(2) You should go to UCLA, and just accept how myopic the legal profession is

(3) Loyola has significantly relaxed its stipulations this year (now top 50%; used to be top 33%).

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bk1
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Re: Southwestern vs. Loyola LA vs. UCLA

Postby bk1 » Mon Mar 05, 2012 10:38 pm

Hawking wrote:When you have a hard time advising Berkeley at sticker, then you know the market is bad. Here's to hoping it will be better by 2015 lol.


Berkeley and UCLA are in 2 different worlds. Berkeley puts around 1/2 of its grads into big firm jobs that make paying back 200k debt feasible. UCLA puts only 1/4 of its grad into those kinds of jobs. I am okay with recommending someone taking a 50/50 gamble. I'm not okay with recommending that someone take a 25/75 gamble.

Second of all, it's not 2015 that matters. If you go to law school this fall you will be interviewing for big firm jobs in fall of 2013.

Hawking
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Re: Southwestern vs. Loyola LA vs. UCLA

Postby Hawking » Tue Mar 06, 2012 12:59 am

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071816
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Re: Southwestern vs. Loyola LA vs. UCLA

Postby 071816 » Tue Mar 06, 2012 1:23 am

Hawking wrote:
Danteshek wrote:(1) I am a Loyola 3L

(2) You should go to UCLA, and just accept how myopic the legal profession is

(3) Loyola has significantly relaxed its stipulations this year (now top 50%; used to be top 33%).


I know it was just a campus tour, but the guide kept emphasizing how good the job market was for Loyola grads. As a 3L how do you feel about it? She made it seem like there is little stress for having a job at graduation if you go there. I understand the intentionally misleading statistics on the school's websites, but surely the tour guide has nothing to gain? Obviously she's not going to say "don't come here you can't get a job", but she kept telling us about the great employment opportunities without anyone asking. She did say that you want to be in the top 20-25% of the class to think about getting a big firm job.


Sounds like the tour guide was trying to bamboozle you.

Danteshek
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Re: Southwestern vs. Loyola LA vs. UCLA

Postby Danteshek » Tue Mar 06, 2012 3:43 am

Hawking wrote:
Danteshek wrote:(1) I am a Loyola 3L

(2) You should go to UCLA, and just accept how myopic the legal profession is

(3) Loyola has significantly relaxed its stipulations this year (now top 50%; used to be top 33%).


I know it was just a campus tour, but the guide kept emphasizing how good the job market was for Loyola grads. As a 3L how do you feel about it? She made it seem like there is little stress for having a job at graduation if you go there. I understand the intentionally misleading statistics on the school's websites, but surely the tour guide has nothing to gain? Obviously she's not going to say "don't come here you can't get a job", but she kept telling us about the great employment opportunities without anyone asking. She did say that you want to be in the top 20-25% of the class to think about getting a big firm job.


While I understand the job of the tour guide is make Loyola look good, these statements cause me to seriously question this person's integrity and fitness to practice law. If you PM me her name, I will confront her at school and tell her she has no business LYING to prospective students. To be 100% clear, unless you are top 10% at Loyola first year, YOU WILL NOT GET A BIG FIRM JOB. And it's not like there are lots of other employment opportunities. I would go so far as to say that unless you are top 10% at Loyola first year, YOU WILL PROBABLY BE UNEMPLOYED AT GRADUATION.

timbs4339
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Re: Southwestern vs. Loyola LA vs. UCLA

Postby timbs4339 » Tue Mar 06, 2012 10:04 am

Hawking wrote:
Danteshek wrote:(1) I am a Loyola 3L

(2) You should go to UCLA, and just accept how myopic the legal profession is

(3) Loyola has significantly relaxed its stipulations this year (now top 50%; used to be top 33%).


I know it was just a campus tour, but the guide kept emphasizing how good the job market was for Loyola grads. As a 3L how do you feel about it? She made it seem like there is little stress for having a job at graduation if you go there. I understand the intentionally misleading statistics on the school's websites, but surely the tour guide has nothing to gain? Obviously she's not going to say "don't come here you can't get a job", but she kept telling us about the great employment opportunities without anyone asking. She did say that you want to be in the top 20-25% of the class to think about getting a big firm job.


A couple of reasons

I go to a different school, but a friend once told me he participates in admitted student events because he felt he was "investing in his degree" by trying to convince admitted students to attend. I don't know if he would go so far as to lie about aspects of the school, but that's an incentive.

Other people feel a strong loyalty to protect their school from criticism, especially criticism that could be leveled at other schools in that range. It's actually sort of the same way people in violent neighborhoods tell outsiders "this is really a nice neighborhood, just some bad apples from outside causing trouble" whenever anyone asks them why there is so much violence.

Or she could have a job, or have a large % of friends on law review and who have jobs, and so this colors her perspective. I was recently arguing with someone over the true job placement number for my school and our arguments really came down to "well, everyone I know has a job" vs. "well, I know lots of people still unemployed."

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thexfactor
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Re: Southwestern vs. Loyola LA vs. UCLA

Postby thexfactor » Tue Mar 06, 2012 12:18 pm

timbs4339 wrote:
Hawking wrote:
Danteshek wrote:(1) I am a Loyola 3L

(2) You should go to UCLA, and just accept how myopic the legal profession is

(3) Loyola has significantly relaxed its stipulations this year (now top 50%; used to be top 33%).


I know it was just a campus tour, but the guide kept emphasizing how good the job market was for Loyola grads. As a 3L how do you feel about it? She made it seem like there is little stress for having a job at graduation if you go there. I understand the intentionally misleading statistics on the school's websites, but surely the tour guide has nothing to gain? Obviously she's not going to say "don't come here you can't get a job", but she kept telling us about the great employment opportunities without anyone asking. She did say that you want to be in the top 20-25% of the class to think about getting a big firm job.


A couple of reasons

I go to a different school, but a friend once told me he participates in admitted student events because he felt he was "investing in his degree" by trying to convince admitted students to attend. I don't know if he would go so far as to lie about aspects of the school, but that's an incentive.

Other people feel a strong loyalty to protect their school from criticism, especially criticism that could be leveled at other schools in that range. It's actually sort of the same way people in violent neighborhoods tell outsiders "this is really a nice neighborhood, just some bad apples from outside causing trouble" whenever anyone asks them why there is so much violence.

Or she could have a job, or have a large % of friends on law review and who have jobs, and so this colors her perspective. I was recently arguing with someone over the true job placement number for my school and our arguments really came down to "well, everyone I know has a job" vs. "well, I know lots of people still unemployed."



If you don't want to retake, go to UCLA and don't look back. UCLA isn't the worst gamble in the world....

Yes I know someone who does this at my school. They blatantly troll for their school. I actually got really pissed off when I heard that happening.

Also, her statement of top 25% is prob true in respect that you wouldn't even get interviews unless you are in the top quarter. However, in order to get callbacks or actually get hired, you need to be in the top 10-15%.

At my friend's t50, he told me top 20-25% cats were getting a decent amount of interviews. However, none of those guys got invited for callbacks. Everyone who got callbacks seemed to be in the top 5% or so.

xtian
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Re: Southwestern vs. Loyola LA vs. UCLA

Postby xtian » Tue Mar 06, 2012 7:16 pm

If you don't mind me asking, what were your numbers?

I also got 23k/yr from Loyola with the same stipulation, only top half of class. I didn't apply to UCLA, because I didn't think I had a chance, but now I'm thinking damn maybe I should have.

I have a 3.37 and 166 LSAT.

Hawking
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Re: Southwestern vs. Loyola LA vs. UCLA

Postby Hawking » Tue Mar 06, 2012 8:27 pm

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Last edited by Hawking on Tue Jan 15, 2013 9:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

JoJ2124
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Re: Southwestern vs. Loyola LA vs. UCLA

Postby JoJ2124 » Tue Mar 13, 2012 9:33 pm

UCLA 3L here. Granted, I transferred into UCLA, but generally, I'd say out of your options (unless you know about USC), it's your best bet to big law (if that's what you want). There were about 3 or 4 Loyola transfers in my 30ish+ transfer class, and I think they really just wanted better job prospects. That doesn't mean that UCLA = guaranteed big law - far from it, but at least it gives you a better shot. I did do fairly well at OCI though, all things considered, and ended up with big law, as did many of my friends. If you really want SoCal, do not go to WUSTL. It's a good school, but all of my interviewers at CA firms were looking for candidates having either really strong ties to LA, or ones that were going to stay in LA for the long term. Not saying you couldn't prove your connections to LA through an interview, but you will have a MUCH easier time if you go to school in LA. Additionally, most of my friends in big law firms had small summer classes, with the majority of students going to either 1) LA schools or 2) T14. So bottom line, I'd go with UCLA or USC, even at sticker.




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