Southwestern vs. Loyola LA vs. UCLA

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Hawking
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Southwestern vs. Loyola LA vs. UCLA

Postby Hawking » Mon Mar 05, 2012 3:45 am

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071816
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Re: Southwestern vs. Loyola LA vs. UCLA

Postby 071816 » Mon Mar 05, 2012 3:57 am

What's the stip on the Loyola scholly?

Hawking
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Re: Southwestern vs. Loyola LA vs. UCLA

Postby Hawking » Mon Mar 05, 2012 4:02 am

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Re: Southwestern vs. Loyola LA vs. UCLA

Postby 071816 » Mon Mar 05, 2012 4:07 am

Honestly, I would use the WUSTL offer to negotiate with UCLA and use the UCLA offer to negotiate with Loyola. As it stands now, I would probably go with UCLA just because the Loyola scholarship isn't quite good enough to turn down UCLA for. Also, there really isn't a point in going to WUSTL unless you want to practice in the midwest.

Don't even consider Southwestern. Even with a full ride, it isn't worth it, especially compared to your other offers. Also, that thing about Southwestern having a good entertainment law "program" is a b.s. marketing tool and does not translate into anything tangible employment wise.

Hawking
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Re: Southwestern vs. Loyola LA vs. UCLA

Postby Hawking » Mon Mar 05, 2012 4:14 am

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Re: Southwestern vs. Loyola LA vs. UCLA

Postby 071816 » Mon Mar 05, 2012 4:18 am

Hawking wrote:
chimp wrote:Honestly, I would use the WUSTL offer to negotiate with UCLA and use the UCLA offer to negotiate with Loyola. As it stands now, I would probably go with UCLA just because the Loyola scholarship isn't quite good enough to turn down UCLA for. Also, there really isn't a point in going to WUSTL unless you want to practice in the midwest.

Don't even consider Southwestern. Even with a full ride, it isn't worth it, especially compared to your other offers. Also, that thing about Southwestern having a good entertainment law "program" is a b.s. marketing tool and does not translate into anything tangible employment wise.


Haha thanks for the Southwestern tip, I really needed to hear it. I think going into this whole process I told myself I wouldn't be swayed by stuff like that, but I do find myself falling into some traps.

I don't want to practice in the midwest, but right now WUSTL is my best bargaining tool with UCLA.


Yup. I would wait it out and see what happens money-wise. I don't even know if UCLA would entertain a WUSTL offer. Couldn't hurt to try though.

checkster
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Re: Southwestern vs. Loyola LA vs. UCLA

Postby checkster » Mon Mar 05, 2012 12:53 pm

If you could get aaaaaanything from UCLA, I'd go with that. With an acceptance there and $$ from WUSTL, I wouldn't even consider Loyola.

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Shammis
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Re: Southwestern vs. Loyola LA vs. UCLA

Postby Shammis » Mon Mar 05, 2012 1:02 pm

LLSer here...Go to UCLA. Period. (.)

LordBeric
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Re: Southwestern vs. Loyola LA vs. UCLA

Postby LordBeric » Mon Mar 05, 2012 1:27 pm

http://www.law.ucla.edu/career-services ... stics.aspx

retake, even ucla's unaudited stats show a 25 percent chance of being a part time worker or unemployed. I know grads who are doing babysitting and teaching counted as employed. Only worth it if you can convince them to give you a full ride.

http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNL ... 2543436520

You have a greater chance at ucla of being unemployed or a doc reviewer than making biglaw, don't see why someone would even consider this for sticker.

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splitbrain
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Re: Southwestern vs. Loyola LA vs. UCLA

Postby splitbrain » Mon Mar 05, 2012 1:42 pm

LordBeric wrote:I know grads who are doing babysitting and teaching counted as employed. Only worth it if you can convince them to give you a full ride.


What percentile of the class was the babysitter in...?

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bk1
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Re: Southwestern vs. Loyola LA vs. UCLA

Postby bk1 » Mon Mar 05, 2012 1:51 pm

LordBeric wrote:http://www.law.ucla.edu/career-services/Pages/employment-statistics.aspx

retake, even ucla's unaudited stats show a 25 percent chance of being a part time worker or unemployed.

http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNL ... 2543436520

You have a greater chance at ucla of being unemployed or a doc reviewer than making biglaw, don't see why someone would even consider this for sticker.


I generally agree with this. UCLA, while just below the T14, is just not a place where half or more of the class gets jobs that justify 200k worth of debt. I wouldn't take out more than around 120k debt for UCLA.

Also: Southwestern is never worth it even if they paid you. Loyola... I'd generally say that even on a full ride I wouldn't consider them. The problem is that they put draconian stipulations of top 1/3 on their scholarships. Are you sure 3.2 is top 50%? Loyola recently raised all their GPA's by 0.3 so 3.2 might not be the top 50% you think it is. Even then, Loyola still plays 3rd fiddle (tied with Pepperdine) to 2 much better schools in LA (UCLA/USC). Not to mention Boalt/Stanford/otherT14 grads trying to work in LA. LA just cannot absorb that and consequently Loyola suffers.

LordBeric
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Re: Southwestern vs. Loyola LA vs. UCLA

Postby LordBeric » Mon Mar 05, 2012 1:54 pm

Nah, it was a parent of a grad with biglaw who told me how the grad's friends were struggling and basically abandoned law. While I know that kind of info is useful it really doesn't flow in the conversation with a no law student.

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splitbrain
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Re: Southwestern vs. Loyola LA vs. UCLA

Postby splitbrain » Mon Mar 05, 2012 1:58 pm

LordBeric wrote:Nah, it was a parent of a grad with biglaw who told me how the grad's friends were struggling and basically abandoned law. While I know that kind of info is useful it really doesn't flow in the conversation with a no law student.


Gotcha. I know it's tough out there but sometimes it just seems like people didn't take their legal education seriously and then are shocked that they have no idea what to do come graduation (that was me after UG, haha).

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Re: Southwestern vs. Loyola LA vs. UCLA

Postby 071816 » Mon Mar 05, 2012 1:59 pm

I tend to agree that schools like UCLA/USC are not worth taking out 200k worth of debt for. I wouldn't recommend paying sticker unless you have money saved up, help from family, etc. that can significantly reduce the amount of debt you will ultimately incur. That being said, UCLA is a significantly better school to take a gamble on than Loyola.

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Re: Southwestern vs. Loyola LA vs. UCLA

Postby Hawking » Mon Mar 05, 2012 2:00 pm

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Hawking
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Re: Southwestern vs. Loyola LA vs. UCLA

Postby Hawking » Mon Mar 05, 2012 2:04 pm

Shammis wrote:LLSer here...Go to UCLA. Period. (.)


Elaborate please?? All I hear about LLS is how much LA firms love Loyola grads.

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thexfactor
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Re: Southwestern vs. Loyola LA vs. UCLA

Postby thexfactor » Mon Mar 05, 2012 2:26 pm

Hawking wrote:
Shammis wrote:LLSer here...Go to UCLA. Period. (.)


Elaborate please?? All I hear about LLS is how much LA firms love Loyola grads.


lol they only love loyola grads who are in the top 10% of their class.

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romothesavior
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Re: Southwestern vs. Loyola LA vs. UCLA

Postby romothesavior » Mon Mar 05, 2012 2:35 pm

chimp wrote:I tend to agree that schools like UCLA/USC are not worth taking out 200k worth of debt for. I wouldn't recommend paying sticker unless you have money saved up, help from family, etc. that can significantly reduce the amount of debt you will ultimately incur. That being said, UCLA is a significantly better school to take a gamble on than Loyola.

I agree with this. It's just too expensive to justify sticker, especially ITE.

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Re: Southwestern vs. Loyola LA vs. UCLA

Postby LordBeric » Mon Mar 05, 2012 4:10 pm

OP, I know you are not admitted to USC but I'd imagine you will be. To me, thats a way better choice than UCLA. Better So Cal network by far, you would be a double trojan so alumni would be particularly interested in helping you and I think it would be a real tangible bump. I think USC is the best choice here.

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bk1
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Re: Southwestern vs. Loyola LA vs. UCLA

Postby bk1 » Mon Mar 05, 2012 4:13 pm

LordBeric wrote:OP, I know you are not admitted to USC but I'd imagine you will be. To me, thats a way better choice than UCLA. Better So Cal network by far, you would be a double trojan so alumni would be particularly interested in helping you and I think it would be a real tangible bump. I think USC is the best choice here.


I'm not sure I agree with this. I think there might be benefits to being an alum of both USC and UCLA. You could be right about "double trojan" but I am skeptical of that.

Also UCLA and USC consistently place similarly so it seems that neither is substantially better than the other.

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splitbrain
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Re: Southwestern vs. Loyola LA vs. UCLA

Postby splitbrain » Mon Mar 05, 2012 6:06 pm

LordBeric wrote:OP, I know you are not admitted to USC but I'd imagine you will be. To me, thats a way better choice than UCLA. Better So Cal network by far, you would be a double trojan so alumni would be particularly interested in helping you and I think it would be a real tangible bump. I think USC is the best choice here.


http://www.law.ucla.edu/career-services/Pages/employment-statistics.aspx

http://lawweb.usc.edu/careers/statistics/

....what?

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MrHaephestus
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Re: Southwestern vs. Loyola LA vs. UCLA

Postby MrHaephestus » Mon Mar 05, 2012 6:14 pm

Have you considered a retake on the LSAT?

You're looking at a choice between lower ranked schools with scholly, and state school(s) without, correct?

So, if a retake yields a better result, then would it not make sense to reapply? I mean the possibility exists that an increased score = possible admittance to better schools, or admittance to state schools at a lower cost (i.e. better LSAT = potential scholly offer to UCLA thus lowering your debt load)

I dunno, but if you gotta go, and you're not T14, I'd be looking to increase my scholly offers at state schools with good regional reps.

I am considering just such an option. Accepted to several schools, got schollys, but the price tag v. school reps v. job prospects just don't make sense: especially since I am looking for guv / PI work.

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quadsixm
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Re: Southwestern vs. Loyola LA vs. UCLA

Postby quadsixm » Mon Mar 05, 2012 6:20 pm

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Hawking
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Re: Southwestern vs. Loyola LA vs. UCLA

Postby Hawking » Mon Mar 05, 2012 7:36 pm

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MrHaephestus
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Re: Southwestern vs. Loyola LA vs. UCLA

Postby MrHaephestus » Mon Mar 05, 2012 7:42 pm

No need to get defensive. Just trying to help you make an informed decision. As far as jobs being tough all over, well, I know all about that since I am currently employed in the land development market.

If you gotta go, then you gotta go, and I won't make any more attempts to dissuade you.

My vote? UCLA.

Cheers!




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