Mid-Atlantic Advice

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Tls2012
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Mid-Atlantic Advice

Postby Tls2012 » Sat Mar 03, 2012 8:43 pm

It’s been an interesting cycle, but I have narrowed my choices down to just two schools:

1) Rutgers School of Law – Newark w/$$ and instate tuition

Or

2) University of Maryland School of Law

Right now I am leaning heavily towards Rutgers – Newark. I have some ties to NJ and would enjoy living there. Also, the amount of money I would save by attending Rutgers is substantial. I wasn’t expecting to get into a tier 1 school like UMD though, and don’t want to short change myself by attending Rutgers if the job prospects out of UMD would be worth the extra tuition. Any advice between these two schools would be greatly appreciated, thanks!

rad lulz
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Re: Mid-Atlantic Advice

Postby rad lulz » Sun Mar 04, 2012 6:44 am

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Last edited by rad lulz on Sun Apr 21, 2013 3:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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fanmingrui
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Re: Mid-Atlantic Advice

Postby fanmingrui » Sun Mar 04, 2012 9:37 am

Enjoy Rutgers and less debt.

dissonance1848
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Re: Mid-Atlantic Advice

Postby dissonance1848 » Sun Mar 04, 2012 9:41 am

Thirded. Go to Rutgers dude.

Linsanity
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Re: Mid-Atlantic Advice

Postby Linsanity » Sun Mar 04, 2012 2:18 pm

I believe everyone should go to the best possible school they can. I'd personally go to Maryland but that's just me. I applied to Maryland and haven't heard back yet, but I'd love to go there. It is incredibly well-regarded.

kaiser
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Re: Mid-Atlantic Advice

Postby kaiser » Sun Mar 04, 2012 2:22 pm

Do not in any way be fooled into thinking Maryland is a "better" school simply because it is ranked higher. Once you get beyond the 20-30 point or so, rankings aren't important anyway, and it is all about region and geography. If you are from NJ, as I am, or from somewhere nearby, you know full well how pervasive the Rutgers name is in NJ. All firms in NJ have tons of Rutgers and Seton Hall grads because the NJ market is incredibly insular and wants to keep the best of the homegrown NJ products. You got a scholarship, and will be paying in-state tuition, all the while getting to stay in a place where you are comfortable working. You couldn't make a worse choice than leaving for Maryland.

Just an anecdote btw, I know someone who went to Maryland who was from NJ and wanted to come back here. She did well and was on the E-board of her journal, and not only can she not get a job back home in NJ, but can't even get a job in Maryland. Be smart here, and go to Rutgers.

Linsanity
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Re: Mid-Atlantic Advice

Postby Linsanity » Sun Mar 04, 2012 2:25 pm

Interesting. I have a friend at Maryland Law who just got a job at a Newark Law Firm in Jersey and is making just under 90k. I also have friends at Rutgers-Newark who are 3L's and can't even get an internship. But hey, do whatever.

kaiser
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Re: Mid-Atlantic Advice

Postby kaiser » Sun Mar 04, 2012 2:41 pm

Linsanity wrote:Interesting. I have a friend at Maryland Law who just got a job at a Newark Law Firm in Jersey and is making just under 90k. I also have friends at Rutgers-Newark who are 3L's and can't even get an internship. But hey, do whatever.


I would think thats pretty rare. Hell, I go to school in NYC, and they were treating me like a traitor for leaving (since they immediately assumed that, because I left NJ, that means I didn't want to work there).

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Gail
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Re: Mid-Atlantic Advice

Postby Gail » Sun Mar 04, 2012 2:42 pm

Peer schools. Go to the cheaper one.

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AreJay711
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Re: Mid-Atlantic Advice

Postby AreJay711 » Sun Mar 04, 2012 2:43 pm

Maryland is a good school but if you would prefer Rutgers, do that.

Linsanity
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Re: Mid-Atlantic Advice

Postby Linsanity » Sun Mar 04, 2012 2:47 pm

You guys make good points, but the idea that after the top-20 rankings just don't matter is not true, and I have been told that a plethora of times. Maryland is well-regarded and is a much better school than Rutgers. Employers know what each school requires, and knows Maryland's median LSAT is 162 compared to 157 for Rutgers. I want to go to Maryland so hell, I hope you choose Rutgers, but I think it would be in your best interest to choose Maryland. You will clear that debt in a very short amount of time and will reap the benefits in the long run.

kaiser
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Re: Mid-Atlantic Advice

Postby kaiser » Sun Mar 04, 2012 2:55 pm

Linsanity wrote:You guys make good points, but the idea that after the top-20 rankings just don't matter is not true, and I have been told that a plethora of times. Maryland is well-regarded and is a much better school than Rutgers. Employers know what each school requires, and knows Maryland's median LSAT is 162 compared to 157 for Rutgers. I want to go to Maryland so hell, I hope you choose Rutgers, but I think it would be in your best interest to choose Maryland. You will clear that debt in a very short amount of time and will reap the benefits in the long run.


1. Maryland is not a "much better" school than Rutgers. I'm not sure at all what gives you that idea. Its not like the admissions standards for the schools are that different (the difference between 157-162 is not the same kind of difference as, say, between a 162 and 167), or that the attract a completely different caliber of student. And the NLJ250 rankings seem to show Rutgers placing more students into NLJ250 firms (though they are essentially even, between 7-8%)

2. Unless your school is national in its reach (of which neither of these schools are), you should be picking NOT based on ranking, but based on geography. If the kid wants to work in NJ, then he would be pretty dumb to go to a school outside of NJ unless it is so national that he could work his way back. Does that mean no kid who leaves NJ to attend a regional school will get back to NJ? No, of course not. But never assume you will be the exception to the general rule. You go to Maryland because you want to work in Baltimore or because they gave you a good scholarship, not because it is higher ranked. Its not like we are comparing a T3/4 school with a T1.

3. Out of state tuition is 35K, and it isn't exactly easy to establish residency (my friend goes there, lived in Maryland throughout and was denied change to in-state). And with living expenses, Maryland estimates cost of over 55K per year without scholarship. Thats over 150K total debt. How in the name of god can most students clear that kind of debt in a "very short amount of time"? Especially when the NLJ250 placement is around 7% (and assuming most jobs outside of the NLJ250 are typically to the lower end of the salary distribution?
Last edited by kaiser on Sun Mar 04, 2012 3:03 pm, edited 3 times in total.

Linsanity
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Re: Mid-Atlantic Advice

Postby Linsanity » Sun Mar 04, 2012 3:00 pm

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Last edited by Linsanity on Sun Mar 04, 2012 3:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Linsanity
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Re: Mid-Atlantic Advice

Postby Linsanity » Sun Mar 04, 2012 3:00 pm

kaiser wrote:
1. Maryland is not a "much better" school than Rutgers. I'm not sure at all what gives you that idea. Its not like the admissions standards for the schools are that different (the difference between 157-162 is not the same kind of difference as, say, between a 162 and 167), or that the attract a completely different caliber of student. And the NLJ250 rankings seem to show Rutgers placing more students into NLJ250 firms.

2. Unless your school is national in its reach (of which neither of these schools are), you should be picking NOT based on ranking, but based on geography. If the kid wants to work in NJ, then he would be pretty dumb to go to a school outside of NJ. You go to Maryland because you want to work in Baltimore or because they gave you a good scholarship, not because it is higher ranked.


Uhhh bro that's kinda contradictory. Go to Maryland dude. And if you end up at RU, please withdraw from Maryland so I have a better chance haha.

kaiser
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Re: Mid-Atlantic Advice

Postby kaiser » Sun Mar 04, 2012 3:01 pm

Linsanity wrote:.


You didn't address the arguments, and I'm a 2L who goes to neither of these schools, and who has no horse in this race

Linsanity
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Re: Mid-Atlantic Advice

Postby Linsanity » Sun Mar 04, 2012 3:04 pm

You're telling him he'd be an idiot to leave NJ, but you're saying well no it's ok if you're getting a scholarship to leave. Either way, he'd still be leaving.

kaiser
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Re: Mid-Atlantic Advice

Postby kaiser » Sun Mar 04, 2012 3:06 pm

Linsanity wrote:You're telling him he'd be an idiot to leave NJ, but you're saying well no it's ok if you're getting a scholarship to leave. Either way, he'd still be leaving.


If Maryland is entirely free or gives a big scholarship, and Rutgers were entirely full price, then I would say go to the free school, and be more flexible with where you end up working. That was a point of general application, and not something directed at OP himself. He both wants to work in NJ, and got scholarship from Rutgers (and no scholarship from Maryland), so both weigh in favor of staying in-state. But of course if Maryland is big scholarship, and Rutgers is out of state tuition with no scholarship, then no amount of NJ love should make you spend that much more money.

Tls2012
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Re: Mid-Atlantic Advice

Postby Tls2012 » Sun Mar 04, 2012 6:54 pm

Thank you for all the advice everyone! While I am not from NJ, I have family in the area and it is within driving distance of my current hometown. Maryland is a good bit further away, and I wouldn't really have any ties there, but I would be willing to live there if the increased job opportunities offset the additional tuition I would have to pay. From what I have read in this thread, it doesn't appear that the additional tuition at UMD would be worth it though, but I will continue to look into the pros and cons of these two schools until the seat deposit deadline. Thanks again for the help!

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Gail
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Re: Mid-Atlantic Advice

Postby Gail » Sun Mar 04, 2012 6:57 pm

Tls2012 wrote:I would be willing to live there if the increased job opportunities offset the additional tuition I would have to pay


I don't think that they will. NJ firms will be fine with Rutgers. If you're going to LS, I think you've made a fine choice. Maybe you can commute/save COL?




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