Southwestern at sticker or Calwestern with ($)?

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vinylx
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Re: Southwestern at sticker or Calwestern with ($)?

Postby vinylx » Sat Mar 03, 2012 9:25 pm

TrojanHopeful wrote:
vinylx wrote:
traehekat wrote:
vinylx wrote:usc, ucla, loyola, pepperdine, uci, southwestern and chapman are within 20 miles of each other.


never knew this, gross.


I forgot La Verne and Whitter too lol


and don't forget People's College of Law!

BTW, UCI is about 40 miles from the others, not 20 miles....that is a HUGE difference :wink: .


You think so? Considering so many of the other grads from la schools came from, and plan to return to, orange county I consider them parts of the same whole. Especially chapman since it is a stones throw from uci.

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Jah'rakal
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Re: Southwestern at sticker or Calwestern with ($)?

Postby Jah'rakal » Sat Mar 03, 2012 9:30 pm

southwestern has a decent rep around LA, and i think that rep is worth the money over calwestern

vinylx
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Re: Southwestern at sticker or Calwestern with ($)?

Postby vinylx » Sat Mar 03, 2012 9:34 pm

Jah'rakal wrote:southwestern has a decent rep around LA, and i think that rep is worth the money over calwestern


That is kind of my dilemma. Is Southwestern's limited rep, as small as it may be, worth more than the $45k in scholarships id get, and possibly lose, at cal western. I plan on attending admitted student events at both but I dont know how much you really learn about the nitty gritty at those things. I prefer to have actual students chime in and tell me what they know.

071816
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Re: Southwestern at sticker or Calwestern with ($)?

Postby 071816 » Sat Mar 03, 2012 9:37 pm

vinylx wrote:
Jah'rakal wrote:southwestern has a decent rep around LA, and i think that rep is worth the money over calwestern


That is kind of my dilemma. Is Southwestern's limited rep, as small as it may be, worth more than the $45k in scholarships id get, and possibly lose, at cal western. I plan on attending admitted student events at both but I dont know how much you really learn about the nitty gritty at those things. I prefer to have actual students chime in and tell me what they know.


Neither of these schools is worth anything unless you have a full ride. And even then, the decision to attend would be questionable. You would be better off without a JD than attending either of these schools, especially at these prices.
Last edited by 071816 on Sat Mar 03, 2012 10:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

vinylx
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Re: Southwestern at sticker or Calwestern with ($)?

Postby vinylx » Sat Mar 03, 2012 9:46 pm

Im trying to keep this comparison in a vacuum for that specific reason. In the greater scheme of things neither is a great choice and both are essentially a big risk but one has to be a better fit for me than the other by the mere fact the odds of them being totally equal are virtually nil. I know people with decent jobs graduating from southwestern but its entirely possible that $45k in free dough might outweigh any advantage southwestern may hold over trying to get into calwestern and break into san diego.

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moneybagsphd
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Re: Southwestern at sticker or Calwestern with ($)?

Postby moneybagsphd » Sat Mar 03, 2012 9:47 pm

vinylx wrote:Undergrad Institution: University of Phoenix

Not trolling?

vinylx
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Re: Southwestern at sticker or Calwestern with ($)?

Postby vinylx » Sat Mar 03, 2012 9:53 pm

moneybagsphd wrote:
vinylx wrote:Undergrad Institution: University of Phoenix

Not trolling?


Nope. Absolutely not trolling.

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moneybagsphd
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Re: Southwestern at sticker or Calwestern with ($)?

Postby moneybagsphd » Sat Mar 03, 2012 10:13 pm

vinylx wrote:What are the extra curricular activities like at cal western? I am interested in participating in moot court, mock trial, or a clinic that focuses on actually taking cases to trial for resolution. I am also interested in the difficulty of attaining an 80.00. Is that typically the top 20% of the class? 15%? I really appreciate anything you can teach me considering you cant know much about the curve until you are subject to it.

TLS Profile wrote:One factor behind this high attrition rate is likely the school's relatively harsh grading curve. For 1L courses, California Western requires that 30-60% of students in each course must receive a final grade between 74 and 79 (inclusive), 15-20% of students must score between 69 and 73, and 10-15% (first trimester) or 5-10% (second trimester) must receive scores between 50 and 68. It is not this grading curve alone that explains the attrition rate, but rather, the grading curve in conjunction with the academic standard set forth in item 7.21 of the student handbook: at the conclusion of the 1L year, any student who does not have both a cumulative GPA and a major cumulate GPA of 74 or above will be “dismissed.” For students who are already close to the edge (which, given that at least 30% and as many as 60% of the students in each course must fall in the 74-79 grade bracket, many will be), just one grade in the 50-73 range - mandated for between 25% and 35% of the students in each course during the first trimester and 20-30% in the second trimester - can easily sink the cumulative GPA below the 74 threshold. So, absent some professorial conspiracy to counterbalance each low grade in one class with a high grade in another, this policy all but guarantees that a significant percentage of students will be dropped from the rolls before their 2L years.

vinylx
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Re: Southwestern at sticker or Calwestern with ($)?

Postby vinylx » Sat Mar 03, 2012 10:22 pm

moneybagsphd wrote:
vinylx wrote:What are the extra curricular activities like at cal western? I am interested in participating in moot court, mock trial, or a clinic that focuses on actually taking cases to trial for resolution. I am also interested in the difficulty of attaining an 80.00. Is that typically the top 20% of the class? 15%? I really appreciate anything you can teach me considering you cant know much about the curve until you are subject to it.

TLS Profile wrote:One factor behind this high attrition rate is likely the school's relatively harsh grading curve. For 1L courses, California Western requires that 30-60% of students in each course must receive a final grade between 74 and 79 (inclusive), 15-20% of students must score between 69 and 73, and 10-15% (first trimester) or 5-10% (second trimester) must receive scores between 50 and 68. It is not this grading curve alone that explains the attrition rate, but rather, the grading curve in conjunction with the academic standard set forth in item 7.21 of the student handbook: at the conclusion of the 1L year, any student who does not have both a cumulative GPA and a major cumulate GPA of 74 or above will be “dismissed.” For students who are already close to the edge (which, given that at least 30% and as many as 60% of the students in each course must fall in the 74-79 grade bracket, many will be), just one grade in the 50-73 range - mandated for between 25% and 35% of the students in each course during the first trimester and 20-30% in the second trimester - can easily sink the cumulative GPA below the 74 threshold. So, absent some professorial conspiracy to counterbalance each low grade in one class with a high grade in another, this policy all but guarantees that a significant percentage of students will be dropped from the rolls before their 2L years.


I read that quote last week and while I think it speaks on the harsh curve in general I dont really see how tough it is to get an 80.00. Just looking at the numbers you posted 30-60% of the class has to get between 74 and 79. That chunk is so large and can pan out so many different ways, especially considering the fact that its cumulative, that I dont really know how determine the difficulty of getting anything over a 79. I think the best way to judge it at this point is to call it "hard" and leave it at that.

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sunynp
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Re: Southwestern at sticker or Calwestern with ($)?

Postby sunynp » Sat Mar 03, 2012 10:28 pm

You are making a huge IRREPARABLE mistake if you go to either school. You will end up with huge debt following you around the next 25 years of your life.

Should you disregard the advice you have been given repeatedly on this front, please bookmark this thread. Come back and read it in a year or two. You can't say that we didn't warn you or that you didn't have good advice.

I really worry about your future. You need to make better decisions than you are making right now.

vinylx
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Re: Southwestern at sticker or Calwestern with ($)?

Postby vinylx » Sat Mar 03, 2012 10:31 pm

sunynp wrote:You are making a huge IRREPARABLE mistake if you go to either school. You will end up with huge debt following you around the next 25 years of your life.

Should you disregard the advice you have been given repeatedly on this front, please bookmark this thread. Come back and read it in a year or two. You can't say that we didn't warn you or that you didn't have good advice.

I really worry about your future. You need to make better decisions than you are making right now.



I hear your warning and im ignoring it. I wont bookmark anything and I wont read this thread in a year or two. Ill worry about my future and deal with my options as they come thanks. Your conscience is clear. Anything of substance to add about which school might be a better fit?

northerncali9
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Re: Southwestern at sticker or Calwestern with ($)?

Postby northerncali9 » Sat Mar 03, 2012 10:41 pm

vinylx wrote:What are the extra curricular activities like at cal western? I am interested in participating in moot court, mock trial, or a clinic that focuses on actually taking cases to trial for resolution. I am also interested in the difficulty of attaining an 80.00. Is that typically the top 20% of the class? 15%? I really appreciate anything you can teach me considering you cant know much about the curve until you are subject to it.


We have mock trial teams, appellate teams, negotiation teams and a summer boot camp that emphasizes advocacy skills that you must qualify to participate in. An 80.00 GPA is roughly top 1/3 of the class-not too crazy. Just be prepared to work hard and this should not be an issue to keep your scholarship.

vinylx
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Re: Southwestern at sticker or Calwestern with ($)?

Postby vinylx » Sat Mar 03, 2012 10:44 pm

northerncali9 wrote:
vinylx wrote:What are the extra curricular activities like at cal western? I am interested in participating in moot court, mock trial, or a clinic that focuses on actually taking cases to trial for resolution. I am also interested in the difficulty of attaining an 80.00. Is that typically the top 20% of the class? 15%? I really appreciate anything you can teach me considering you cant know much about the curve until you are subject to it.


We have mock trial teams, appellate teams, negotiation teams and a summer boot camp that emphasizes advocacy skills that you must qualify to participate in. An 80.00 GPA is roughly top 1/3 of the class-not too crazy. Just be prepared to work hard and this should not be an issue to keep your scholarship.


Whoa is it really the top third? That seems really manageable but im having a hard time believing that number. I thought maybe it was top 25% at best and top 10% at worst. I plan on working my behind off no matter where I go so hopefully it will be enough to allow me to enjoy some of the more creative and fun parts of law school.

071816
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Re: Southwestern at sticker or Calwestern with ($)?

Postby 071816 » Sat Mar 03, 2012 10:50 pm

vinylx wrote:
northerncali9 wrote:
vinylx wrote:What are the extra curricular activities like at cal western? I am interested in participating in moot court, mock trial, or a clinic that focuses on actually taking cases to trial for resolution. I am also interested in the difficulty of attaining an 80.00. Is that typically the top 20% of the class? 15%? I really appreciate anything you can teach me considering you cant know much about the curve until you are subject to it.


We have mock trial teams, appellate teams, negotiation teams and a summer boot camp that emphasizes advocacy skills that you must qualify to participate in. An 80.00 GPA is roughly top 1/3 of the class-not too crazy. Just be prepared to work hard and this should not be an issue to keep your scholarship.


Whoa is it really the top third? That seems really manageable but im having a hard time believing that number. I thought maybe it was top 25% at best and top 10% at worst. I plan on working my behind off no matter where I go so hopefully it will be enough to allow me to enjoy some of the more creative and fun parts of law school.


How is it "really manageable" when 2/3 of students won't achieve it?

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FryBreadPower
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Re: Southwestern at sticker or Calwestern with ($)?

Postby FryBreadPower » Sat Mar 03, 2012 10:54 pm

chimp wrote:
vinylx wrote:
northerncali9 wrote:
vinylx wrote:What are the extra curricular activities like at cal western? I am interested in participating in moot court, mock trial, or a clinic that focuses on actually taking cases to trial for resolution. I am also interested in the difficulty of attaining an 80.00. Is that typically the top 20% of the class? 15%? I really appreciate anything you can teach me considering you cant know much about the curve until you are subject to it.


We have mock trial teams, appellate teams, negotiation teams and a summer boot camp that emphasizes advocacy skills that you must qualify to participate in. An 80.00 GPA is roughly top 1/3 of the class-not too crazy. Just be prepared to work hard and this should not be an issue to keep your scholarship.


Whoa is it really the top third? That seems really manageable but im having a hard time believing that number. I thought maybe it was top 25% at best and top 10% at worst. I plan on working my behind off no matter where I go so hopefully it will be enough to allow me to enjoy some of the more creative and fun parts of law school.


How is it "really manageable" when 2/3 of students won't achieve it?


OP, the only worse than saying you ABSOLUTELY MUST go to either one of these schools is assuming you are going to be one of the top students because you have, "a great work ethic"

vinylx
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Re: Southwestern at sticker or Calwestern with ($)?

Postby vinylx » Sat Mar 03, 2012 10:56 pm

chimp wrote:
vinylx wrote:
northerncali9 wrote:
vinylx wrote:What are the extra curricular activities like at cal western? I am interested in participating in moot court, mock trial, or a clinic that focuses on actually taking cases to trial for resolution. I am also interested in the difficulty of attaining an 80.00. Is that typically the top 20% of the class? 15%? I really appreciate anything you can teach me considering you cant know much about the curve until you are subject to it.


We have mock trial teams, appellate teams, negotiation teams and a summer boot camp that emphasizes advocacy skills that you must qualify to participate in. An 80.00 GPA is roughly top 1/3 of the class-not too crazy. Just be prepared to work hard and this should not be an issue to keep your scholarship.


Whoa is it really the top third? That seems really manageable but im having a hard time believing that number. I thought maybe it was top 25% at best and top 10% at worst. I plan on working my behind off no matter where I go so hopefully it will be enough to allow me to enjoy some of the more creative and fun parts of law school.


How is it "really manageable" when 2/3 of students won't achieve it?


It seems to fall in line with the scholarships that others I know have received. Typically top 20-35%. Perhaps im mistaken and most scholarships require you to be in the top 40-50% but based on my research and what ive heard it doesnt seem odd or anything. Feel free to enlighten me if I am way off base and scholarships are typically easier to keep than I think.

071816
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Re: Southwestern at sticker or Calwestern with ($)?

Postby 071816 » Sat Mar 03, 2012 10:59 pm

vinylx wrote:It seems to fall in line with the scholarships that others I know have received. Typically top 20-35%. Perhaps im mistaken and most scholarships require you to be in the top 40-50% but based on my research and what ive heard it doesnt seem odd or anything. Feel free to enlighten me if I am way off base and scholarships are typically easier to keep than I think.


I have to hand it to you, you're a pretty effective troll.

vinylx
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Re: Southwestern at sticker or Calwestern with ($)?

Postby vinylx » Sat Mar 03, 2012 11:00 pm

OP, the only worse than saying you ABSOLUTELY MUST go to either one of these schools is assuming you are going to be one of the top students because you have, "a great work ethic"[/quote]

Good thing I didnt say that. I said that no matter where I go im going to work really hard and that hopefully it allows me to participate in the more creative and fun parts of law school. Specifically mock trial or moot court. The only thing worse than your original post was your last one. If you arent going to help me learn about the differences between the two schools and what they offer refrain from posting. Thanks for playing though.

northerncali9
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Re: Southwestern at sticker or Calwestern with ($)?

Postby northerncali9 » Sat Mar 03, 2012 11:01 pm

vinylx wrote:
northerncali9 wrote:
vinylx wrote:What are the extra curricular activities like at cal western? I am interested in participating in moot court, mock trial, or a clinic that focuses on actually taking cases to trial for resolution. I am also interested in the difficulty of attaining an 80.00. Is that typically the top 20% of the class? 15%? I really appreciate anything you can teach me considering you cant know much about the curve until you are subject to it.


We have mock trial teams, appellate teams, negotiation teams and a summer boot camp that emphasizes advocacy skills that you must qualify to participate in. An 80.00 GPA is roughly top 1/3 of the class-not too crazy. Just be prepared to work hard and this should not be an issue to keep your scholarship.


Whoa is it really the top third? That seems really manageable but im having a hard time believing that number. I thought maybe it was top 25% at best and top 10% at worst. I plan on working my behind off no matter where I go so hopefully it will be enough to allow me to enjoy some of the more creative and fun parts of law school.


Yes, top 1/3. The school sent out a statistic that 78 is top 40%, so top 1/3 is accurate for an 80.

vinylx
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Re: Southwestern at sticker or Calwestern with ($)?

Postby vinylx » Sat Mar 03, 2012 11:07 pm

chimp wrote:
vinylx wrote:It seems to fall in line with the scholarships that others I know have received. Typically top 20-35%. Perhaps im mistaken and most scholarships require you to be in the top 40-50% but based on my research and what ive heard it doesnt seem odd or anything. Feel free to enlighten me if I am way off base and scholarships are typically easier to keep than I think.


I have to hand it to you, you're a pretty effective troll.



Maybe im misunderstanding what a troll is. I thought a troll is someone who posts a fake thread to irritate people without trying to actually learn anything. I really want to learn about the differences between the schools and I dont feel like a troll. There is a dearth of info comparing the two and for me this isnt for the sake of argument. This is my life and while it may seem really really crappy to you this is what I have in front of me and I want to make a decision between the two. Yes the choices are not all that great. Yes im a university of phoenix grad. If that alone makes me a troll then I guess im a troll. In your defense you did add that they seem very comparable in a few respects and that its essentially a toss up even if cal western offered money which is where my mind was when I started the thread. Im sure youre a really successful person and you go to a great school and thats awesome I praise you but this is my dilemma so if you or anyone else can offer more insight into which might be better for me I welcome them.

vinylx
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Re: Southwestern at sticker or Calwestern with ($)?

Postby vinylx » Sat Mar 03, 2012 11:08 pm

northerncali9 wrote:
vinylx wrote:
northerncali9 wrote:
vinylx wrote:What are the extra curricular activities like at cal western? I am interested in participating in moot court, mock trial, or a clinic that focuses on actually taking cases to trial for resolution. I am also interested in the difficulty of attaining an 80.00. Is that typically the top 20% of the class? 15%? I really appreciate anything you can teach me considering you cant know much about the curve until you are subject to it.


We have mock trial teams, appellate teams, negotiation teams and a summer boot camp that emphasizes advocacy skills that you must qualify to participate in. An 80.00 GPA is roughly top 1/3 of the class-not too crazy. Just be prepared to work hard and this should not be an issue to keep your scholarship.


Whoa is it really the top third? That seems really manageable but im having a hard time believing that number. I thought maybe it was top 25% at best and top 10% at worst. I plan on working my behind off no matter where I go so hopefully it will be enough to allow me to enjoy some of the more creative and fun parts of law school.


Yes, top 1/3. The school sent out a statistic that 78 is top 40%, so top 1/3 is accurate for an 80.


Thank you I appreciate all your input. Would you mind if I pm'd you in the near future to ask a question or two?

northerncali9
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Re: Southwestern at sticker or Calwestern with ($)?

Postby northerncali9 » Sat Mar 03, 2012 11:15 pm

Thank you I appreciate all your input. Would you mind if I pm'd you in the near future to ask a question or two?[/quote][/quote]

Happy to help, go right ahead. BTW, I think you might want to call the admissions office and see if you could get any more money out of them. Let them know what other schools you were accepted into and your strong interest and applicable background in competing on a trial team. Best of luck!

vinylx
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Re: Southwestern at sticker or Calwestern with ($)?

Postby vinylx » Sat Mar 03, 2012 11:23 pm

northerncali9 wrote:Thank you I appreciate all your input. Would you mind if I pm'd you in the near future to ask a question or two?
[/quote]

Happy to help, go right ahead. BTW, I think you might want to call the admissions office and see if you could get any more money out of them. Let them know what other schools you were accepted into and your strong interest and applicable background in competing on a trial team. Best of luck![/quote]

Thanks a bundle. Maybe I'll see you in the fall.

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1ferret!
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Re: Southwestern at sticker or Calwestern with ($)?

Postby 1ferret! » Sun Mar 04, 2012 12:02 am

traehekat wrote:
vinylx wrote:usc, ucla, loyola, pepperdine, uci, southwestern and chapman are within 20 miles of each other.


never knew this, gross.


You never knew it because it's false.

vinylx
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Re: Southwestern at sticker or Calwestern with ($)?

Postby vinylx » Sun Mar 04, 2012 12:09 am

1ferret! wrote:
traehekat wrote:
vinylx wrote:usc, ucla, loyola, pepperdine, uci, southwestern and chapman are within 20 miles of each other.


never knew this, gross.


You never knew it because it's false.


usc ucla southwestern and loyola arent far apart, maybe 10-15 miles. USC and ucla are at the ends with southwestern and loyola in between. Pepperdine is in malibu and unless you want to be an attorney to some sand and gulls youre working in the same place all the previous grads will work. UCI and chapman are like 10 miles apart but 40 or so from downtown LA. Still close by la standards.




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