Southwestern at sticker or Calwestern with ($)?

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vinylx
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Southwestern at sticker or Calwestern with ($)?

Postby vinylx » Sat Mar 03, 2012 5:38 pm

I have done quite a bit of searching but excluding the usual flaming of each school I have yet to read anything to push me one way or the other. I am from LA county but would live near Southwestern so cost of living would be roughly the same. I have no problem living and eventually working in San Diego. I am aware of the rough curve at Calwestern and that I need to maintain an 80.00 to keep my full scholarship ($15k per year for each year) or a 78.00 to keep 1/3 ($5k per year). The curve is rather amorphous so it is tough to say how easy it will be to hit that mark. Where should I go? Are the job prospects at graduation similar for each? I would really appreciate input from current Southwestern and Calwestern students. Thank you in advance.

071816
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Re: Southwestern at sticker or Calwestern with ($)?

Postby 071816 » Sat Mar 03, 2012 5:44 pm

Neither. They're both terrible options due to horrendous job prospects. Consider a retake/reapply or just don't go to law school.

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breadbucket
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Re: Southwestern at sticker or Calwestern with ($)?

Postby breadbucket » Sat Mar 03, 2012 5:51 pm

chimp wrote:Neither. They're both terrible options due to horrendous job prospects. Consider a retake/reapply or just don't go to law school.

vinylx
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Re: Southwestern at sticker or Calwestern with ($)?

Postby vinylx » Sat Mar 03, 2012 5:54 pm

Well im going to one of them in the fall because I will not retake/reapply so a comparison between those two will be sufficient. Thank you for your concern though. I realize you are trying to give me what you believe is the most helpful advice.

bdole2
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Re: Southwestern at sticker or Calwestern with ($)?

Postby bdole2 » Sat Mar 03, 2012 7:13 pm

vinylx wrote:Well im going to one of them in the fall because I will not retake/reapply so a comparison between those two will be sufficient. Thank you for your concern though. I realize you are trying to give me what you believe is the most helpful advice.


It's not just "what he believes". It IS the most helpful advice. WHY won't you retake/reapply? Do you really have a good reason not to?

Also not sure why I wasted my time responding because I think this guy be trollin'

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FryBreadPower
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Re: Southwestern at sticker or Calwestern with ($)?

Postby FryBreadPower » Sat Mar 03, 2012 7:32 pm

breadbucket wrote:
chimp wrote:Neither. They're both terrible options due to horrendous job prospects. Consider a retake/reapply or just don't go to law school.

vinylx
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Re: Southwestern at sticker or Calwestern with ($)?

Postby vinylx » Sat Mar 03, 2012 7:33 pm

It just isnt for me to retake and reapply at this stage in my life. Im not in a position to wait a year to do anything I need to get somewhere that I can have a chance to get an education that will give me an opportunity to do SOMETHING in the next 4 years. I have interest in the field and I plan on struggling and putting my all all into trying to make it. Ill agree that im not going to make $120k a year for my first job Ill probably end up in the 40-60k range and im okay with that. The debt doesnt concern me and im ready to wrestle with it. Advice that tries to push me away from attending is quite moot because whether or not I get input that helps me decide between the schools I WILL attend one of them. I want a comparison of the schools so I can attend the one that gives me the best opportunity no matter how bad others may believe them to be. So please, some input on the differences between the two schools I listed would be helpful for me. Im not trolling and im sorry if im bothering people with this question but I dont understand why people cant lay out the pros and cons between the two without putting their two cents in about my overall plan in life. I know the risks associated I just need some objective information between two schools I have been accepted to. No offense to anyone I really do understand that people are trying to help with their comments but the information they are providing is not what I was looking for. Compare the schools and please give me insight into their differences. Thanks in advance.

071816
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Re: Southwestern at sticker or Calwestern with ($)?

Postby 071816 » Sat Mar 03, 2012 7:47 pm

Another possible option that you failed to mention is that you could easily end up jobless upon graduation from either of these schools (in addition to the significant debt you are likely going to incur). If this is a risk you are willing to take, I guess just decide whether you prefer L.A. or S.D. and choose accordingly.

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FryBreadPower
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Re: Southwestern at sticker or Calwestern with ($)?

Postby FryBreadPower » Sat Mar 03, 2012 7:50 pm

vinylx wrote:It just isnt for me to retake and reapply at this stage in my life. Im not in a position to wait a year to do anything I need to get somewhere that I can have a chance to get an education that will give me an opportunity to do SOMETHING in the next 4 years. I have interest in the field and I plan on struggling and putting my all all into trying to make it. Ill agree that im not going to make $120k a year for my first job Ill probably end up in the 40-60k range and im okay with that. The debt doesnt concern me and im ready to wrestle with it. Advice that tries to push me away from attending is quite moot because whether or not I get input that helps me decide between the schools I WILL attend one of them. I want a comparison of the schools so I can attend the one that gives me the best opportunity no matter how bad others may believe them to be. So please, some input on the differences between the two schools I listed would be helpful for me. Im not trolling and im sorry if im bothering people with this question but I dont understand why people cant lay out the pros and cons between the two without putting their two cents in about my overall plan in life. I know the risks associated I just need some objective information between two schools I have been accepted to. No offense to anyone I really do understand that people are trying to help with their comments but the information they are providing is not what I was looking for. Compare the schools and please give me insight into their differences. Thanks in advance.


If you are employed at all.

And how could massive debt not concern you? I don't truthfully understand the sentiment of I NEED TO GO TO LAW SCHOOL RIGHT NOW. From a pure rational standpoint, it makes so much more sense to get a job that will pay the bills, study your ass off for the LSAT and either go to a much higher regarded institution with much better employment prospects that will pay better or go to a similarly regarded institution but on a large scholarship that could say you upwards of $100,000. If someone told you right now, "I'll give you $100k to wait a year before you go to Law School", would you not immediately say YES before they finished the question?

That's sort of what you are dealing with here.

Regardless, all the best with your future endeavors.

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FryBreadPower
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Re: Southwestern at sticker or Calwestern with ($)?

Postby FryBreadPower » Sat Mar 03, 2012 7:50 pm

chimp wrote:Another possible option that you failed to mention is that you could easily end up jobless upon graduation from either of these schools (in addition to the significant debt you are likely going to incur). If this is a risk you are willing to take, I guess just decide whether you prefer L.A. or S.D. and choose accordingly.


Bingo.

vinylx
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Re: Southwestern at sticker or Calwestern with ($)?

Postby vinylx » Sat Mar 03, 2012 7:55 pm

chimp wrote:Another possible option that you failed to mention is that you could easily end up jobless upon graduation from either of these schools (in addition to the significant debt you are likely going to incur). If this is a risk you are willing to take, I guess just decide whether you prefer L.A. or S.D. and choose accordingly.


Thank you that is actually somewhat helpful. Do you have any insight into the difference between the schools or are they equal in all respects? If it is just a matter of the city I prefer to live in the scholarship makes much more sense even if it is difficult to keep. Could I expect a similar salary (assuming im not jobless) from each school or will that tend to depend on my ability to network and my rank in the class etc?

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traehekat
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Re: Southwestern at sticker or Calwestern with ($)?

Postby traehekat » Sat Mar 03, 2012 8:07 pm

vinylx wrote:Im not trolling and im sorry if im bothering people with this question but I dont understand why people cant lay out the pros and cons between the two without putting their two cents in about my overall plan in life.


Both Con: You have a 90-95% chance of being unemployed upon graduation.
Both Con: You will have spent $160,000+ for this 90-95% chance of being unemployed upon graduation.
Calwestern Con: High attrition rate.

Both Pro: You will live in a nice area for 3 years before you have start paying back your loans.

How's that?

071816
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Re: Southwestern at sticker or Calwestern with ($)?

Postby 071816 » Sat Mar 03, 2012 8:09 pm

vinylx wrote:
chimp wrote:Another possible option that you failed to mention is that you could easily end up jobless upon graduation from either of these schools (in addition to the significant debt you are likely going to incur). If this is a risk you are willing to take, I guess just decide whether you prefer L.A. or S.D. and choose accordingly.


Thank you that is actually somewhat helpful. Do you have any insight into the difference between the schools or are they equal in all respects? If it is just a matter of the city I prefer to live in the scholarship makes much more sense even if it is difficult to keep. Could I expect a similar salary (assuming im not jobless) from each school or will that tend to depend on my ability to network and my rank in the class etc?


I would go with Southwestern (if you have to pick one, although I still don't understand why this is the case) simply because L.A. is a much larger market and Southwestern's attrition rate is lower.

vinylx
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Re: Southwestern at sticker or Calwestern with ($)?

Postby vinylx » Sat Mar 03, 2012 8:22 pm

chimp wrote:
vinylx wrote:
chimp wrote:Another possible option that you failed to mention is that you could easily end up jobless upon graduation from either of these schools (in addition to the significant debt you are likely going to incur). If this is a risk you are willing to take, I guess just decide whether you prefer L.A. or S.D. and choose accordingly.


Thank you that is actually somewhat helpful. Do you have any insight into the difference between the schools or are they equal in all respects? If it is just a matter of the city I prefer to live in the scholarship makes much more sense even if it is difficult to keep. Could I expect a similar salary (assuming im not jobless) from each school or will that tend to depend on my ability to network and my rank in the class etc?


I would go with Southwestern (if you have to pick one, although I still don't understand why this is the case) simply because L.A. is a much larger market and Southwestern's attrition rate is lower.


Your point about the attrition rate has actually been on my mind although im not sure how much it differs from failing your behind off at any school. I thought about the differences between the LA job market and SD's but I have heard arguments that it might be easier to get a job at a small or mid sized firm in SD with a cal western degree as it has less competition locally compared to trying to break into LA's market with a degree from Southwestern due to the fact that usc, ucla, loyola, pepperdine, uci, southwestern and chapman are within 20 miles of each other. Is there any merit to that argument? I have also heard good things about Southwestern's moot court team and I am very interested in participating at whichever school I attend. Does anyone have any familiarity with either school?

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traehekat
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Re: Southwestern at sticker or Calwestern with ($)?

Postby traehekat » Sat Mar 03, 2012 8:24 pm

vinylx wrote:usc, ucla, loyola, pepperdine, uci, southwestern and chapman are within 20 miles of each other.


never knew this, gross.

northerncali9
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Re: Southwestern at sticker or Calwestern with ($)?

Postby northerncali9 » Sat Mar 03, 2012 8:24 pm

There is a lot more competition in the LA market. CalWestern has a very good reputation in San Diego County (their bar passage rate is among the highest in the state and the highest in San Diego). Thousands of attorneys practicing in San Diego went to CalWestern and prefer hiring their graduates. Don't listen to posters who just look at a school's T3/T4 status and disregard it as a road to failure and debt. The rankings are skewed to begin with and what really matters is that you network from the get-go and do reasonably well as a student.

vinylx
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Re: Southwestern at sticker or Calwestern with ($)?

Postby vinylx » Sat Mar 03, 2012 8:33 pm

northerncali9 wrote:There is a lot more competition in the LA market. CalWestern has a very good reputation in San Diego County (their bar passage rate is among the highest in the state and the highest in San Diego). Thousands of attorneys practicing in San Diego went to CalWestern and prefer hiring their graduates. Don't listen to posters who just look at a school's T3/T4 status and disregard it as a road to failure and debt. The rankings are skewed to begin with and what really matters is that you network from the get-go and do reasonably well as a student.


Im not sure how this will go over in this thread :D . Do you know anyone that went to Southwestern or Cal western? Do you have any insight on what its like attending either?

vinylx
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Re: Southwestern at sticker or Calwestern with ($)?

Postby vinylx » Sat Mar 03, 2012 8:33 pm

traehekat wrote:
vinylx wrote:usc, ucla, loyola, pepperdine, uci, southwestern and chapman are within 20 miles of each other.


never knew this, gross.


I forgot La Verne and Whitter too lol

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Ludo!
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Re: Southwestern at sticker or Calwestern with ($)?

Postby Ludo! » Sat Mar 03, 2012 8:34 pm

northerncali9 wrote:There is a lot more competition in the LA market. CalWestern has a very good reputation in San Diego County (their bar passage rate is among the highest in the state and the highest in San Diego). Thousands of attorneys practicing in San Diego went to CalWestern and prefer hiring their graduates. Don't listen to posters who just look at a school's T3/T4 status and disregard it as a road to failure and debt. The rankings are skewed to begin with and what really matters is that you network from the get-go and do reasonably well as a student.


Lol. Thank you for this CalWestern admissions rep

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TrojanHopeful
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Re: Southwestern at sticker or Calwestern with ($)?

Postby TrojanHopeful » Sat Mar 03, 2012 8:53 pm

vinylx wrote:
traehekat wrote:
vinylx wrote:usc, ucla, loyola, pepperdine, uci, southwestern and chapman are within 20 miles of each other.


never knew this, gross.


I forgot La Verne and Whitter too lol


and don't forget People's College of Law!

BTW, UCI is about 40 miles from the others, not 20 miles....that is a HUGE difference :wink: .

northerncali9
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Re: Southwestern at sticker or Calwestern with ($)?

Postby northerncali9 » Sat Mar 03, 2012 8:53 pm

vinylx wrote:
northerncali9 wrote:There is a lot more competition in the LA market. CalWestern has a very good reputation in San Diego County (their bar passage rate is among the highest in the state and the highest in San Diego). Thousands of attorneys practicing in San Diego went to CalWestern and prefer hiring their graduates. Don't listen to posters who just look at a school's T3/T4 status and disregard it as a road to failure and debt. The rankings are skewed to begin with and what really matters is that you network from the get-go and do reasonably well as a student.


Im not sure how this will go over in this thread :D . Do you know anyone that went to Southwestern or Cal western? Do you have any insight on what its like attending either?


I only know one person who goes to Southwestern and from what I gather he has summer work this year and is a 2L (only talked to him a few times but he does not seem worried about finding a job after graduation). I am currently a student at Cal Western and am not concerned about my job prospects post-graduation. I go out and network and met many attorneys who are alumnus and regard CalWestern in a very positive light with how they prepare their students for the workforce. I know at least three attorneys who I could intern with this summer and I know I want to practice in San Diego, which is the mindset you should probably have if you decide to go here. Just my two cents...

tmack002
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Re: Southwestern at sticker or Calwestern with ($)?

Postby tmack002 » Sat Mar 03, 2012 8:54 pm

I know a few people that have recently graduated from each school. It seemed to me that Southwestern had more internship/ externship opportunities compared to Calwestern, which I would assume is largely the result of Southwestern being in a larger market. I think job placement at graduation for both schools might be a little rough, as only two of the people I know had a job at graduation. However, they did find jobs as attorney's within 6-12 months.

It is unlikely that either of these schools will get you into a six figure job any time soon. That being the case, paying off your loans will be a struggle. With that in mind, if I were in your position I would go with Calwestern. The $45,000 scholarship would knock off just over $500 on your monthly loan payments.

northerncali9
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Re: Southwestern at sticker or Calwestern with ($)?

Postby northerncali9 » Sat Mar 03, 2012 8:58 pm

Ludovico Technique wrote:
northerncali9 wrote:There is a lot more competition in the LA market. CalWestern has a very good reputation in San Diego County (their bar passage rate is among the highest in the state and the highest in San Diego). Thousands of attorneys practicing in San Diego went to CalWestern and prefer hiring their graduates. Don't listen to posters who just look at a school's T3/T4 status and disregard it as a road to failure and debt. The rankings are skewed to begin with and what really matters is that you network from the get-go and do reasonably well as a student.


Lol. Thank you for this CalWestern admissions rep


Busted! Gotta appreciate my commitment though, right? Working on a Saturday afternoon and all. Hell, I probably made two accounts just so I can post this thread on one and reply with another.

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Ludo!
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Re: Southwestern at sticker or Calwestern with ($)?

Postby Ludo! » Sat Mar 03, 2012 9:02 pm

northerncali9 wrote:
Ludovico Technique wrote:
northerncali9 wrote:There is a lot more competition in the LA market. CalWestern has a very good reputation in San Diego County (their bar passage rate is among the highest in the state and the highest in San Diego). Thousands of attorneys practicing in San Diego went to CalWestern and prefer hiring their graduates. Don't listen to posters who just look at a school's T3/T4 status and disregard it as a road to failure and debt. The rankings are skewed to begin with and what really matters is that you network from the get-go and do reasonably well as a student.


Lol. Thank you for this CalWestern admissions rep


Busted! Gotta appreciate my commitment though, right? Working on a Saturday afternoon and all. Hell, I probably made two accounts just so I can post this thread on one and reply with another.


Nevermind, I see now that you are a 1l who is delusional about their job prospects. That was my second guess.

vinylx
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Re: Southwestern at sticker or Calwestern with ($)?

Postby vinylx » Sat Mar 03, 2012 9:18 pm

What are the extra curricular activities like at cal western? I am interested in participating in moot court, mock trial, or a clinic that focuses on actually taking cases to trial for resolution. I am also interested in the difficulty of attaining an 80.00. Is that typically the top 20% of the class? 15%? I really appreciate anything you can teach me considering you cant know much about the curve until you are subject to it.




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