Seton Hall Full$ v. T30 $ v. probably sticker T14

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mithriliel
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Seton Hall Full$ v. T30 $ v. probably sticker T14

Postby mithriliel » Wed Feb 29, 2012 3:49 pm

I am having a ridiculously hard time picking because everyone I ask tells me something different. I live in NJ and plan to practice in the area.

I have a full ride at Seton Hall.

I also have Fordham with $15/year, GW with $16/year, UCLA with $20/year, and BU and Vandy still waiting on scholarship offers.

I've been waitlisted at Gtown, UVA and Michigan so far and due to certain circumstances I'm confident I will be pulled off the waitlist of at least one, but probably at sticker. Still waiting on Cornell, NYU, Penn, Duke, Stanford (probably going to be WLs if anything and no money)

I plan to stay in NJ/NY area to practice. Big Law probably isn't my long term career goal (though that may change) and I do want to be able to have a family in the near future. I will be paying for law school myself through loans and don't have much extra saved up.

Help please :)

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bk1
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Re: Seton Hall Full$ v. T30 $ v. probably sticker T14

Postby bk1 » Wed Feb 29, 2012 4:07 pm

Well I think T30's with half money or less are easily out since the job prospects to debt ratio is worse than your other options (not to mention some of them aren't in the NY/NJ region).

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crossarmant
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Re: Seton Hall Full$ v. T30 $ v. probably sticker T14

Postby crossarmant » Wed Feb 29, 2012 4:12 pm

This may come as contrary to what a lot of people on here will say, but if you're looking to stay in New Jersey and not work big law, go with Seton Hall on a full-ride (ONLY if you can negotiate it as no GPA stipulations). It may not be throwing tons of folks in big law, but if you're looking for some smaller time gig near family and want to start a family in the near future, the debt may not be worth it. If they won't budge on stips, then I'd say wait for a T14 though.

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mithriliel
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Re: Seton Hall Full$ v. T30 $ v. probably sticker T14

Postby mithriliel » Wed Feb 29, 2012 5:24 pm

crossarmant wrote:This may come as contrary to what a lot of people on here will say, but if you're looking to stay in New Jersey and not work big law, go with Seton Hall on a full-ride (ONLY if you can negotiate it as no GPA stipulations). It may not be throwing tons of folks in big law, but if you're looking for some smaller time gig near family and want to start a family in the near future, the debt may not be worth it. If they won't budge on stips, then I'd say wait for a T14 though.


It's the whole stay in the top 50% of the class stip, 2.5 GPA. My thing is I would hope I could stay in the top 50%, otherwise I worry that I shouldn't be attending a T14 anyway, haha.

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Re: Seton Hall Full$ v. T30 $ v. probably sticker T14

Postby hooma » Wed Feb 29, 2012 5:33 pm

mithriliel wrote:
crossarmant wrote:This may come as contrary to what a lot of people on here will say, but if you're looking to stay in New Jersey and not work big law, go with Seton Hall on a full-ride (ONLY if you can negotiate it as no GPA stipulations). It may not be throwing tons of folks in big law, but if you're looking for some smaller time gig near family and want to start a family in the near future, the debt may not be worth it. If they won't budge on stips, then I'd say wait for a T14 though.


It's the whole stay in the top 50% of the class stip, 2.5 GPA. My thing is I would hope I could stay in the top 50%, otherwise I worry that I shouldn't be attending a T14 anyway, haha.

I have a friend at Seton Hall that has the same scholarship and kept it, but barely. She's pretty sure that they take all of the kids with scholarships and puts them in the same section, guaranteeing that half will lose their scholarships (since you are curved against your section, not your whole class). The school denies it.

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Bronck
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Re: Seton Hall Full$ v. T30 $ v. probably sticker T14

Postby Bronck » Wed Feb 29, 2012 5:35 pm

mithriliel wrote:
crossarmant wrote:This may come as contrary to what a lot of people on here will say, but if you're looking to stay in New Jersey and not work big law, go with Seton Hall on a full-ride (ONLY if you can negotiate it as no GPA stipulations). It may not be throwing tons of folks in big law, but if you're looking for some smaller time gig near family and want to start a family in the near future, the debt may not be worth it. If they won't budge on stips, then I'd say wait for a T14 though.


It's the whole stay in the top 50% of the class stip, 2.5 GPA. My thing is I would hope I could stay in the top 50%, otherwise I worry that I shouldn't be attending a T14 anyway, haha.


Bad logic

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Re: Seton Hall Full$ v. T30 $ v. probably sticker T14

Postby bobbyh1919 » Wed Feb 29, 2012 6:30 pm

Hard to give you an answer until you start getting responses for those schools. I was just wondering where Rutgers Newark and Camden are on your list, and also maybe even Cardozo.

victortsoi
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Re: Seton Hall Full$ v. T30 $ v. probably sticker T14

Postby victortsoi » Wed Feb 29, 2012 6:34 pm

Whoa! Id really like to know whether that scholarship trick is true or not...how can we verify?

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mithriliel
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Re: Seton Hall Full$ v. T30 $ v. probably sticker T14

Postby mithriliel » Wed Feb 29, 2012 6:56 pm

@bobby - I didn't do the Rutgers schools because Seton Hall was rated higher and gave me the fee waiver (I didn't get one from Rutgers). Plus being a UG at Rutgers I knew of the issues with Camden Law going to Rowan so I didn't want that risk.

@victor and @hooma - I have a couple friends at SH who have the full scholly who said that they don't scholly stack the classes. One of them works in admissions, she gives tours and stuff, and I'm fairly sure she would tell me. But I do know they give different types of the full scholarship, some are application based and some are auto based on numbers, so it might vary based on that?

Just got the Penn reject though and my friends are planning a post graduation trip so no loans is looking QUITE appealing right now...

Linsanity
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Re: Seton Hall Full$ v. T30 $ v. probably sticker T14

Postby Linsanity » Wed Feb 29, 2012 6:59 pm

UCLA. Its absolutely beautiful there and an amazing school. Dont know how you can pass that up.

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Re: Seton Hall Full$ v. T30 $ v. probably sticker T14

Postby bobbyh1919 » Wed Feb 29, 2012 7:02 pm

mithriliel wrote:@bobby - I didn't do the Rutgers schools because Seton Hall was rated higher and gave me the fee waiver (I didn't get one from Rutgers). Plus being a UG at Rutgers I knew of the issues with Camden Law going to Rowan so I didn't want that risk.


I think this was a mistake. Rutgers Newark probably would have cost you just a little more than Seton Hall, but with a 3.0 stipulation. I assume it's too late now, but forking over the extra $65 would've been wise. The rankings are irrelevant at this point and the two schools have similar placement statistics.

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mithriliel
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Re: Seton Hall Full$ v. T30 $ v. probably sticker T14

Postby mithriliel » Wed Feb 29, 2012 7:46 pm

bobbyh1919 wrote:
mithriliel wrote:@bobby - I didn't do the Rutgers schools because Seton Hall was rated higher and gave me the fee waiver (I didn't get one from Rutgers). Plus being a UG at Rutgers I knew of the issues with Camden Law going to Rowan so I didn't want that risk.


I think this was a mistake. Rutgers Newark probably would have cost you just a little more than Seton Hall, but with a 3.0 stipulation. I assume it's too late now, but forking over the extra $65 would've been wise. The rankings are irrelevant at this point and the two schools have similar placement statistics.

What do you mean by the 3.0 stipulation? Seton hall offered the 2.5. My main hesitation with Rutgers Newark was the programs as well. I do have a science background and seton hall offered slightly more classes that had more of a science law basis to them from my research.

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Re: Seton Hall Full$ v. T30 $ v. probably sticker T14

Postby bobbyh1919 » Wed Feb 29, 2012 7:55 pm

mithriliel wrote:
bobbyh1919 wrote:
mithriliel wrote:@bobby - I didn't do the Rutgers schools because Seton Hall was rated higher and gave me the fee waiver (I didn't get one from Rutgers). Plus being a UG at Rutgers I knew of the issues with Camden Law going to Rowan so I didn't want that risk.


I think this was a mistake. Rutgers Newark probably would have cost you just a little more than Seton Hall, but with a 3.0 stipulation. I assume it's too late now, but forking over the extra $65 would've been wise. The rankings are irrelevant at this point and the two schools have similar placement statistics.

What do you mean by the 3.0 stipulation? Seton hall offered the 2.5. My main hesitation with Rutgers Newark was the programs as well. I do have a science background and seton hall offered slightly more classes that had more of a science law basis to them from my research.


My understanding has always been that it is easier to keep scholarships at RU-N than it is at Seton Hall. My full ride to Seton Hall required me to stay in the top 1/2 of the class. If yours is different for some reason, than that could change things.

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mithriliel
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Re: Seton Hall Full$ v. T30 $ v. probably sticker T14

Postby mithriliel » Mon Mar 05, 2012 5:01 pm

So I just got $25k/year from Vanderbilt - is that money and their ranking worth it if I want to end up practicing in NY/NJ? Their tuition is around $46k/year and then I would be paying living expenses

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Re: Seton Hall Full$ v. T30 $ v. probably sticker T14

Postby lawyerwannabe » Mon Mar 05, 2012 5:46 pm

Not sure what makes you think you'll get in off the WL at a T14 . . . but I would NOT attend Vandy if my goal was to end up practicing BigLaw in NY / NJ. And since you even said BigLaw is not your longterm goal, I would see if you could get Fordham to match (or more?) the scholarship you received from Vandy. Good luck!

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Re: Seton Hall Full$ v. T30 $ v. probably sticker T14

Postby dingbat » Mon Mar 05, 2012 7:03 pm

mithriliel wrote:So I just got $25k/year from Vanderbilt - is that money and their ranking worth it if I want to end up practicing in NY/NJ? Their tuition is around $46k/year and then I would be paying living expenses


Your best bet at finding a job in NY is Fordham. But, seeing as how biglaw is not your main consideration, and you would be happy ending up in NJ, it's not worth $100k over Seton Hall - graduating with minimal debt is very important (unless you're going for biglaw).

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Re: Seton Hall Full$ v. T30 $ v. probably sticker T14

Postby Linsanity » Mon Mar 05, 2012 11:08 pm

dingbat wrote:
Your best bet at finding a job in NY is Fordham. But, seeing as how biglaw is not your main consideration, and you would be happy ending up in NJ, it's not worth $100k over Seton Hall - graduating with minimal debt is very important (unless you're going for biglaw).



I personally would attend the best school possible. Vanderbilt is regarded as "The Harvard of the South" in that it is the best school down there. I'd go there over Seton Hall.

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Re: Seton Hall Full$ v. T30 $ v. probably sticker T14

Postby sunynp » Mon Mar 05, 2012 11:29 pm

Linsanity wrote:
dingbat wrote:
Your best bet at finding a job in NY is Fordham. But, seeing as how biglaw is not your main consideration, and you would be happy ending up in NJ, it's not worth $100k over Seton Hall - graduating with minimal debt is very important (unless you're going for biglaw).



I personally would attend the best school possible. Vanderbilt is regarded as "The Harvard of the South" in that it is the best school down there. I'd go there over Seton Hall.


This is bad advice. You need to go where you plan on practicing after you graduate. If you have no ties to the region, you need to go to the best school/lowest debt where you have ties.

As for Vanderbilt being the best school in the South see Virginia.

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Re: Seton Hall Full$ v. T30 $ v. probably sticker T14

Postby thexfactor » Tue Mar 06, 2012 11:36 am

sunynp wrote:
Linsanity wrote:
dingbat wrote:
Your best bet at finding a job in NY is Fordham. But, seeing as how biglaw is not your main consideration, and you would be happy ending up in NJ, it's not worth $100k over Seton Hall - graduating with minimal debt is very important (unless you're going for biglaw).



I personally would attend the best school possible. Vanderbilt is regarded as "The Harvard of the South" in that it is the best school down there. I'd go there over Seton Hall.


This is bad advice. You need to go where you plan on practicing after you graduate. If you have no ties to the region, you need to go to the best school/lowest debt where you have ties.

As for Vanderbilt being the best school in the South see Virginia.


This is not bad advice. Things start to change when you start getting into the vandy/usc/texas realm of schools. The Op has ties somewhere and a vandy degree traveling back will be worth more than some seton hall degree or fordham degree outside of ny. Furthermore, it will be a lot easier getting a ny biglaw job from vandy as compared to Seton Hall. Due to self selection, I think vandy is atleast equal to Fordham in NYC.

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Re: Seton Hall Full$ v. T30 $ v. probably sticker T14

Postby TheFactor » Tue Mar 06, 2012 11:39 am

Linsanity wrote:
dingbat wrote:
Your best bet at finding a job in NY is Fordham. But, seeing as how biglaw is not your main consideration, and you would be happy ending up in NJ, it's not worth $100k over Seton Hall - graduating with minimal debt is very important (unless you're going for biglaw).



I personally would attend the best school possible. Vanderbilt is regarded as "The Harvard of the South" in that it is the best school down there. I'd go there over Seton Hall.

Vandy is not regarded as the Harvard of the South

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Re: Seton Hall Full$ v. T30 $ v. probably sticker T14

Postby wfudeacons2005 » Tue Mar 06, 2012 2:18 pm

I'd say Seton Hall. I have two parents that are lawyers in NJ at a mid-size firm and essentially the whole office is from Rutgers, Seton Hall, and Fordham. SHU gets a bad rap on here not because it is a terrible school, but because it is an decent school that charges a fortune to attend. However, if you want to stay in NJ, are debt averse and aren't concerned with making HUGE money then it is a perfectly fine choice if you do reasonably well.

By the way, having spent my undergrad career down south I can say without a doubt that referring to Vanderbilt as the Harvard of the south is a pretty ridiculous statement. Duke/UVA are substantially better schools overall and it isn't even really close. It is far more in-line with the Wake/UNC/Emory/W&M tier with Vandy being at the top end.

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thexfactor
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Re: Seton Hall Full$ v. T30 $ v. probably sticker T14

Postby thexfactor » Tue Mar 06, 2012 2:29 pm

wfudeacons2005 wrote:I'd say Seton Hall. I have two parents that are lawyers in NJ at a mid-size firm and essentially the whole office is from Rutgers, Seton Hall, and Fordham. SHU gets a bad rap on here not because it is a terrible school, but because it is an decent school that charges a fortune to attend. However, if you want to stay in NJ, are debt averse and aren't concerned with making HUGE money then it is a perfectly fine choice if you do reasonably well.

By the way, having spent my undergrad career down south I can say without a doubt that referring to Vanderbilt as the Harvard of the south is a pretty ridiculous statement. Duke/UVA are substantially better schools overall and it isn't even really close. It is far more in-line with the Wake/UNC/Emory/W&M tier with Vandy being at the top end.



LOL have you seen vandy's NLJ250 placement numbers compared to Wake/UNC/Emory/WM? Vandy's placement is far superior to those schools. I might agree with GW/BC/BU being close but certaintly not UNC/Emory/Wake...

I think you have decent odds that you will make 35k otu of seton hall. However, if that is the case, then why bother going to law school in the first place?

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Re: Seton Hall Full$ v. T30 $ v. probably sticker T14

Postby Linsanity » Tue Mar 06, 2012 2:36 pm

It is a ridiculous notion to even THINK that going to Vanderbilt is a mistake. It is one of those schools that is well regarded across the country. If you have a chance to go there, go there dude. You'd be crazy to pass it up. It will separate you from all the other SHU graduates.

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Re: Seton Hall Full$ v. T30 $ v. probably sticker T14

Postby wfudeacons2005 » Tue Mar 06, 2012 2:58 pm

Maybe I didn't state it correctly. I meant to imply something along the lines of Duke/Uva>>Vandy>Wake/UNC/W&M/Emory. Maybe I am slightly skewed by what their undergraduate reputations are.

Linsanity - Similar to your comment that Rutgers-Camden is substantially better than Rutgers-Newark...that is a huge leap. I have lived in NJ my whole life, I have two parents that have practiced there for 25+ years, one of which went to SHU (and currently teaches as an adjunct at RU-N) and one of which went to a more highly regarded school out of state. NJ is an insular market. Vanderbilt OBVIOUSLY has a better national name than Seton Hall...by a country mile. So do a host of other schools non T-14 law schools like Wake, WashU, BC etc. But the OP is talking about wanting to practice in New Jersey. Seton Hall isn't a place you have to apologize for going to if you are in New Jersey. Taking out 100k of debt to go to Vanderbilt to come back to New Jersey when they could get a degree for free at a school in-state (that despite popular perception on here places moderately well...despite it's absurdly high price tag) is not a CLEARCUT decision...especially if BigLaw isn't the goal. It's one that is open to debate.

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thexfactor
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Re: Seton Hall Full$ v. T30 $ v. probably sticker T14

Postby thexfactor » Tue Mar 06, 2012 3:10 pm

wfudeacons2005 wrote:Maybe I didn't state it correctly. I meant to imply something along the lines of Duke/Uva>>Vandy>Wake/UNC/W&M/Emory. Maybe I am slightly skewed by what their undergraduate reputations are.

Linsanity - Similar to your comment that Rutgers-Camden is substantially better than Rutgers-Newark...that is a huge leap. I have lived in NJ my whole life, I have two parents that have practiced there for 25+ years, one of which went to SHU (and currently teaches as an adjunct at RU-N) and one of which went to a more highly regarded school out of state. NJ is an insular market. Vanderbilt OBVIOUSLY has a better national name than Seton Hall...by a country mile. So do a host of other schools non T-14 law schools like Wake, WashU, BC etc. But the OP is talking about wanting to practice in New Jersey. Seton Hall isn't a place you have to apologize for going to if you are in New Jersey. Taking out 100k of debt to go to Vanderbilt to come back to New Jersey when they could get a degree for free at a school in-state (that despite popular perception on here places moderately well...despite it's absurdly high price tag) is not a CLEARCUT decision...especially if BigLaw isn't the goal. It's one that is open to debate.


If the Op has ties to NJ, vandy top 1/3 will be likely considerable to seton hall top 10%. Also, vandy gives you a shot at other markets too. You woudn;'t have to appologize for seton hall, but you wouldnt get a job either in anything paying over 50k.

Its more like this-
UVA/Duke>Vandy>>Emory>Wake/WM/WL




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