Three options right now

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theduffman
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Three options right now

Postby theduffman » Tue Feb 28, 2012 10:26 pm

1) Wash U St. Louis with 84K total

2) UVA sticker

3) LSU with 3/4 tuition scholarship (currently being considered for full ride + stipend, but as is, it would cost me a whopping $9000 in tuition for all three years together)

Criteria:

I want to practice in Louisiana, basically as a legal nerd forever. I want to clerk in Louisiana, then possibly do some criminal law work, maybe admiralty law. I eventually want to be on the Louisiana supreme court.
Obviously, my fixation on Louisiana makes this tough. UVA gives me better students to work with, better connections, maybe a good clerkship, and could definitely get me back to Louisiana. It would be fun (from what every alum has told me), and I would like living somewhere else for a while. However, I don't know if the benefit is worth how much it costs. If I went to LSU, I feel very confident that I would do well. I have Louisiana connections (from there, and worked for an attorney there with connections). I also know that if I graduate from LSU, I'll graduate with little or no debt, and thus i can take whatever job I want. I don't want to graduate with a ton of debt and then be wedded to a high-paying job. There is also a chance my girlfriend goes to LSU law next year, but honestly that is pretty low on my priority list in terms of choosing a school.

What do y'all think? Obviously all of the T14 or bust people are going to tell me to go to UVA, but I ask that you try to put that aside for a second and seriously consider my situation. Wash U is an option, but I haven't even thought about it very much. If anyone would suggest Wash U, let me know your reasoning.

I'm also waiting to hear back from Tulane (I would be pretty shocked if I didn't get in), but unless they give me substantial scholarship money, I couldn't see them as a realistic option. I would just go to UVA if I'm going to spend a bunch of money.

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minnbills
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Re: Three options right now

Postby minnbills » Tue Feb 28, 2012 10:32 pm

I don't know LSU's reputation- but I wouldn't count on doing so well there. That can be a dangerous line of thinking.

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Doorkeeper
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Re: Three options right now

Postby Doorkeeper » Tue Feb 28, 2012 10:34 pm

Try to use WUSTL to negotiate some scholly from UVA. If you want an good/prestigious clerkship in LA, you need to do UVA.
Last edited by Doorkeeper on Tue Feb 28, 2012 10:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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bk1
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Re: Three options right now

Postby bk1 » Tue Feb 28, 2012 10:38 pm

Doorkeeper wrote:If you want an Article III clerkship in LA, you need to do UVA.

This is a horrible reason to choose UVA considering that the chances of getting an A3 clerkship from UVA are low. Granted it's not as low as other schools, but it's low enough to be a poor reason to choose UVA.
Last edited by bk1 on Tue Feb 28, 2012 10:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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quiver
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Re: Three options right now

Postby quiver » Tue Feb 28, 2012 10:48 pm

Check how good UVA's LRAP is

rad lulz
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Re: Three options right now

Postby rad lulz » Tue Feb 28, 2012 10:52 pm

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Last edited by rad lulz on Sun Apr 21, 2013 7:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Tom Joad
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Re: Three options right now

Postby Tom Joad » Tue Feb 28, 2012 10:55 pm

Your 4th option is to include a poll.

If you did I would vote LSU since Louisiana is civil law, right?

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thelawyler
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Re: Three options right now

Postby thelawyler » Tue Feb 28, 2012 11:56 pm

bk1 wrote:
Doorkeeper wrote:If you want an Article III clerkship in LA, you need to do UVA.

This is a horrible reason to choose UVA considering that the chances of getting an A3 clerkship from UVA are low. Granted it's not as low as other schools, but it's low enough to be a poor reason to choose UVA.

Uhhh then besides YHS, there are no "good options." UVA is as good as it gets for OP.

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bk1
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Re: Three options right now

Postby bk1 » Wed Feb 29, 2012 12:06 am

thelawyler wrote:Uhhh then besides YHS, there are no "good options." UVA is as good as it gets for OP.

Then OP should have goals other than clerking. It's like going to a T2 school and wanting biglaw. Nothing wrong with wanting it, but realize that it ain't gonna happen most of the time.

Jeremyl
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Re: Three options right now

Postby Jeremyl » Wed Feb 29, 2012 12:13 am

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Last edited by Jeremyl on Wed Feb 29, 2012 12:17 am, edited 1 time in total.

envisciguy
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Re: Three options right now

Postby envisciguy » Wed Feb 29, 2012 12:13 am

Tom Joad wrote:Your 4th option is to include a poll.

If you did I would vote LSU since Louisiana is civil law, right?


This is what I was thinking too. OP, if you want to work with Louisiana state law, I'd imagine that going to school there would prepare you better for civil law. I'm a 0L, so I could obviously be wrong, but I'd think LSU is one of the few regional schools that might actually give you an edge in this case.

crit_racer
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Re: Three options right now

Postby crit_racer » Wed Feb 29, 2012 12:37 am

Why isn't Tulane with $$$$ an option?

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cynthia rose
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Re: Three options right now

Postby cynthia rose » Wed Feb 29, 2012 6:44 am

minnbills wrote:I don't know LSU's reputation- but I wouldn't count on doing so well there. That can be a dangerous line of thinking.

I could be wrong but I interpreted his statement about doing well to refer more to his connections than grades - i.e., he's reasonably confident that he'll land on his feet no matter what (esp. with the low cost allowing him to take just about any salary). That said, if I was wrong then you are absolutely correct to remind him to not fall into that trap line of thought.

I was going to ask if there were any stips on the scholly but then I realized in-state sticker at LSU must be ~1/4 of the cost of UVA, so that is a moot point, I guess. WUSTL is pretty much a non-entity in this discussion. Even with the scholly they aren't as cheap or cheaper than LSU and they don't have the national prestige of UVA to justify that cost. I'd imagine some firms would give you a side eye for leaving your region just to attend some other regional school. (Oh, and to the person that asked, Tulane with $$$$ was not listed as an option b/c OP has not gotten an acceptance from Tulane yet, let alone money.)

If you are serious about wanting to eventually serve on the state's supreme court (and not just throwing that out there as some "I just wanna do everything under the sun"...it was kind of hard to tell from your post how committed you are to that end goal) then that is a very specific political goal which will require a lot of networking and making the right connections. You should research current and past LSU judges and see where they got their degrees from. If you notice most of them went to more 'elite' schools then that would likely point to LSU politics being full of prestige whores and you should go to UVA if you want a chance to fit in. If all or almost all of them went to an in-state institution then that points to a good ol' boy network that values loyalty over all else, and you should go to LSU. If there isn't a heavy leaning one way or the other then that probably means it's not where you go but who you already know, in which case you need to be brutally honest with yourself regarding the strength of your connections and your networking skills, then go to LSU if your connections are VERY strong (save money since you're already set) or lean more toward UVA if your connections are on the weak end (hedge your bets with preftige).

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romothesavior
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Re: Three options right now

Postby romothesavior » Wed Feb 29, 2012 11:32 am

bk1 wrote:
Doorkeeper wrote:If you want an Article III clerkship in LA, you need to do UVA.

This is a horrible reason to choose UVA considering that the chances of getting an A3 clerkship from UVA are low. Granted it's not as low as other schools, but it's low enough to be a poor reason to choose UVA.

But did OP say AIII clerkship? If OP wants to clerk at the state level, then his options expand significantly.

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bk1
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Re: Three options right now

Postby bk1 » Wed Feb 29, 2012 12:20 pm

romothesavior wrote:But did OP say AIII clerkship? If OP wants to clerk at the state level, then his options expand significantly.


That is a fair point. I generally assume people mean A3 and in this case OP said "good" clerkship. If it is any clerkship then I'd imagine that changes things but I have no idea how UVA vs LSU comes out in that regard.

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sach1282
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Re: Three options right now

Postby sach1282 » Wed Feb 29, 2012 12:24 pm

According to USNews, LSU has 2.9% A3 and 17% overall clerking rate. By the same source, UVA has 11% A3 and 13% overall clerking rate.

Source: http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandr ... s-rankings

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spleenworship
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Re: Three options right now

Postby spleenworship » Wed Feb 29, 2012 12:30 pm

LSU. If you want a state, especially one with a different system of law, and you have connections and cheap tuition... For the love of gawd stay in state!

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banjo
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Re: Three options right now

Postby banjo » Wed Feb 29, 2012 1:06 pm

Unless you are sure your connections will come through for you, UVA sticker. UVA is just a better place to be an average (medianish) law student.

I also wouldn't worry about the civil law thing. Just email UVA, tell them your goals, and see if they can figure out a way for you to study civil law on the side. Top schools have significant resources (including an all-star faculty) at their disposal and won't turn away a student who wants to learn a little extra.

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Ersatz Haderach
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Re: Three options right now

Postby Ersatz Haderach » Wed Feb 29, 2012 1:09 pm

UVA, and work in LA during all of your summers. Do some supervised research or write your note on civil law. UVA is just high enough that it's worth sticker, IMHO.

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spleenworship
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Re: Three options right now

Postby spleenworship » Wed Feb 29, 2012 2:23 pm

banjo wrote:Unless you are sure your connections will come through for you, UVA sticker. UVA is just a better place to be an average (medianish) law student.

I also wouldn't worry about the civil law thing. Just email UVA, tell them your goals, and see if they can figure out a way for you to study civil law on the side. Top schools have significant resources (including an all-star faculty) at their disposal and won't turn away a student who wants to learn a little extra.



So wait... at sticker OP would pay $150,000 in tuition and fees alone (probably $220,000 in total debt over three years!) at UVA.

At LSU OP would pay $9,000 dollars in tuition in fees, (Probably a total of $60,000 in debt over 3 years).

How in the hell can you argue that if OP wants to stay in LA that he is better off? Backwoods states with parochial attitudes might not necessarily lead to more opportunities just because OP went to a better school... and then OP could have HUGE debt and no job in the market OP wanted in the first place....

theduffman
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Re: Three options right now

Postby theduffman » Wed Feb 29, 2012 2:52 pm

Thank you all for thisgreat discussion! Ill postmore later (cramking for exam right now) but I am very serious about the Louisiana Supreme Court. Honestly, my dream is to be on THE supreme court, but I'd rather aim for something I think is a realistic goal, and I wantto live in South Louisiana. I honestly dont know enough about all the tiers of clerkships. Someone want to aware me?

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Aberzombie1892
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Re: Three options right now

Postby Aberzombie1892 » Wed Feb 29, 2012 2:53 pm

That's a tough one. All of your classmates at LSU would be fighting for Louisiana spots while your classmates at Virginia would not even be aiming for Louisiana.

You could reasonably go either way.

If you got into Tulane with an 80% scholarship, I would probably consider Tulane over LSU, but that will still leave UVA. That's tough.

SIDE NOTE - I don't want to be a downer, but your goals are unrealistic and there is no information out there that indicate which school you should go to for supreem court placement. While I'm certain that most state supreme court in the state came from LSU, that fact is misleading as to which school you should attend to maximize your chances because 70-80+% of LSU's class year over year stay in state.

HYPOTHETICALLY (no numbers are real): Let's say the Supreme Court of Louisiana has 6 judges from LSU, 1 from Tulane, and 1 from Harvard. It may appear to indicate that LSU is a beast in terms of getting on the Supreme Court, but there are 10,000 LSU grads in state, 3,000 Tulane grads in state, and 300 Harvard grads in state.

Also, even if the numbers spread out that way, there are a lot many more factors related to placement than just what school is attended.

notstevedoocy
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Re: Three options right now

Postby notstevedoocy » Wed Feb 29, 2012 2:54 pm

This is a tricky decision because of the unique common law of Louisiana. It ultimately comes down to the fact that you'd struggle with the bar anywhere outside of Louisiana studying at LSU. And you'd struggle with the bar in Louisiana studying at WashU or UVA.

wskbarrett
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Re: Three options right now

Postby wskbarrett » Wed Feb 29, 2012 4:20 pm

Geaux Tigers!

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RareAir
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Re: Three options right now

Postby RareAir » Thu Mar 01, 2012 1:19 pm

notstevedoocy wrote:It ultimately comes down to the fact that you'd struggle with the bar anywhere outside of Louisiana studying at LSU. And you'd struggle with the bar in Louisiana studying at WashU or UVA.


There are hundreds of new lawyers who come to LA every year from OOS schools.




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