Michigan v. Penn

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WheninLaw
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Michigan v. Penn

Postby WheninLaw » Sun Feb 26, 2012 4:09 pm

In before "peer schools are peer."

My story: Currently live in CA, but it's time to get away from the west coast. I have never lived anywhere east of Oregon in my life.

What matters to me (in order of importance)

1. Being able to get a job - In a dream world, I'd teach. But considering this isn't a HYSC thread, I realize how remote that is. Clerking would be fantastic, but I don't want to kid myself -- more than likely, I'll be attempting to work at a big firm and make a lot of money. The new NLJ stats show Penn doing very well, but that seems iffy for a number of reasons (that it was years ago, Mich kids unfortunately banking on Chicago, etc).

I have NO IDEA where I want to live after graduation, other than knowing it won't be on the west coast. So placement power matters. For example, not thinking about Cornell because not sure I want to live in NY.

2. COL/Weather - They look fairly similar, but again, I don't know much about either city.

The obvious big consideration is cost, but so far, no scholarships from either. Are they close enough that if one offered me 10k/year, and the other 0/year, I should go to the former?

I know this discussion has happened before, I have liberally used the search function. But the more current the better.

Thanks!

bdubs
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Re: Michigan v. Penn

Postby bdubs » Sun Feb 26, 2012 4:17 pm

WheninLaw wrote:In before "peer schools are peer."

My story: Currently live in CA, but it's time to get away from the west coast. I have never lived anywhere east of Oregon in my life.

What matters to me (in order of importance)

1. Being able to get a job - In a dream world, I'd teach. But considering this isn't a HYSC thread, I realize how remote that is. Clerking would be fantastic, but I don't want to kid myself -- more than likely, I'll be attempting to work at a big firm and make a lot of money. The new NLJ stats show Penn doing very well, but that seems iffy for a number of reasons (that it was years ago, Mich kids unfortunately banking on Chicago, etc).

I have NO IDEA where I want to live after graduation, other than knowing it won't be on the west coast. So placement power matters. For example, not thinking about Cornell because not sure I want to live in NY.

2. COL/Weather - They look fairly similar, but again, I don't know much about either city.

The obvious big consideration is cost, but so far, no scholarships from either. Are they close enough that if one offered me 10k/year, and the other 0/year, I should go to the former?

I know this discussion has happened before, I have liberally used the search function. But the more current the better.

Thanks!


1) Michigan generally does better than Penn on the academic market, but it's very unlikely from both. Similar placement power outside of NYC, but Penn fares better in NY.
2) Similar enough that it doesn't matter, barring scholarship. If you got a scholarship to one and not the other, I would choose the scholarship given your preferences.

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soj
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Re: Michigan v. Penn

Postby soj » Sun Feb 26, 2012 4:23 pm

COL is probably a little higher at Penn. Michigan's winters are way colder and last longer than Penn's. Both have nice campuses; I'd visit.

BTW, if your only ties are to the west coast but you don't want to work there, you'll pretty much have to target markets that aren't picky about ties. I'd definitely pay attention to NY/DC placement, while keeping in mind the usual caveats like self-selection. M and P are probably pretty similar.

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Bronck
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Re: Michigan v. Penn

Postby Bronck » Sun Feb 26, 2012 4:24 pm

soj wrote:BTW, if your only ties are to the west coast but you don't want to work there, you'll pretty much have to target markets that aren't picky about ties. I'd definitely pay attention to NY/DC placement, while keeping in mind the usual caveats like self-selection. M and P are probably pretty similar.


This is a great point. For this reason, I'd pick P because it performs better in NY.

Sure, Mich can get you to Chicago, but it may be a bit harder with no ties.

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Joan Hollaway
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Re: Michigan v. Penn

Postby Joan Hollaway » Sun Feb 26, 2012 4:27 pm

Michigan is much colder and Penn is probably better for NYC biglaw. However, Michigan might have slightly better national reach.
I'd highly recommend you visit both though. I visited them and something about Michigan just made me feel more at home. Also, if you're into the whole college football social thing Michigan is great for that. I didn' t think that was my scene and now I'm a convert and can see myself coming back to Ann Arbor for games my entire life.

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IAFG
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Re: Michigan v. Penn

Postby IAFG » Sun Feb 26, 2012 4:27 pm

Peer schools are peer, your outcomes will be largely based on your grades from both schools, etc, etc.

That said, I would choose Penn if I were you.

1) Have you ever lived through a Midwestern winter? As an Oregonian who has, I fear you may find it intolerable.
2) Access to east coast cities. As a 2L and 3L, you could do a lot of traveling. As a 1L, you might be able to visit around enough to get a feel for if you want to work in NY, DC or Philly.
3) Michigan's numbers have been all over the place for some understandable reasons, but there's no arguing with Penn's consistency.
4) Since you don't have ties to the east coast, Michigan may leave you more tie-less than when you started. Penn gives you NY, Philly, Wilmington. I know people say NY doesn't require ties, but strong ties to Oregon may look suspect. Living in Philly tells firms that you know what you're getting yourself into when you bid on NY.

WheninLaw
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Re: Michigan v. Penn

Postby WheninLaw » Sun Feb 26, 2012 4:43 pm

You are all insanely helpful.

Problem is I can only visit one. I think I'm leaning Penn unless Michigan offers more money. This has mostly confirmed that suspicion considering my lack of ties.

justicefishy
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Re: Michigan v. Penn

Postby justicefishy » Sun Feb 26, 2012 5:22 pm

I think you also need a car in Michigan. Penn you don't and that's a major expense you don't need to worry about.

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bernaldiaz
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Re: Michigan v. Penn

Postby bernaldiaz » Sun Feb 26, 2012 5:22 pm

Yeah I know this is a minor point but the weather will not be the same. Midwest winters suck, and Michigan will be bitterly cold plus you'll get lake effect snow. Philly winters are much shorter and milder.

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Joan Hollaway
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Re: Michigan v. Penn

Postby Joan Hollaway » Sun Feb 26, 2012 5:27 pm

justicefishy wrote:I think you also need a car in Michigan. Penn you don't and that's a major expense you don't need to worry about.


Ehh you really don't. I get by fine without one. I guess it would be good to have if I wanted to get groceries sometimes but I usually just get a ride from a friend.




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