TTT (full-tuition) v. TTTT (full-tuition)

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lostlawman
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TTT (full-tuition) v. TTTT (full-tuition)

Postby lostlawman » Sat Feb 25, 2012 11:32 pm

Here is my situation. I have been accepted to both Wayne State and Detroit Mercy. I have lived in Michigan all my life and have ties here, so I plan on staying. Both of these schools are in Detroit so I would be able to live at home and save money. From what I have gathered, Wayne State places much better and is regarded as a better law school. However, with Detroit Mercy I would have a much better chance of retaining my scholarship since it has less qualified students and an easier stipulation. Which is the better school to attend? Is it worth it to attend Wayne, since of better placement and reputation in the state, although it may be harder to retain the scholarship? Would graduating from Wayne, with about 55k debt, if I were to lose the scholarship, still be better than Detroit Mercy? I know these are not top law schools, so I realize what I am getting myself into.

Wayne State - full tuition, 1/3 stip (3.25)
Detroit Mercy - full tuition, median stip (3.0)

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MachineLemon
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Re: TTT (full-tuition) v. TTTT (full-tuition)

Postby MachineLemon » Sat Feb 25, 2012 11:53 pm

Where else did you apply and what are your #s? Do you have any other acceptances you can leverage to get them to lose the stip?

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spleenworship
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Re: TTT (full-tuition) v. TTTT (full-tuition)

Postby spleenworship » Sun Feb 26, 2012 12:20 am

Go to the one that gives you the Windsor llb too. Assuming these are your only choices... You couldnt even get into Michigan state?

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cinephile
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Re: TTT (full-tuition) v. TTTT (full-tuition)

Postby cinephile » Sun Feb 26, 2012 1:51 am

Negotiate away the scholarship stipulations.

Also, don't assume that you'll perform better at one school over another just because of the lower median scores of the entering class.

ETA: Just saw those stipulations. If you can't get them lowered, go to Detroit Mercy (although that stipulation isn't great either, try to get that lowered too).

Or you can just do your best during 1L, but if you lose your scholarship be prepared to drop out.

lostlawman
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Re: TTT (full-tuition) v. TTTT (full-tuition)

Postby lostlawman » Sun Feb 26, 2012 9:02 am

spleenworship wrote:Go to the one that gives you the Windsor llb too. Assuming these are your only choices... You couldnt even get into Michigan state?


I did get into Michigan State. They offered me 50% scholarship. Even if I were to lose the scholarship at Wayne it would be cheaper than State with maintaining my scholarship. I much rather go to Wayne than State.

lostlawman
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Re: TTT (full-tuition) v. TTTT (full-tuition)

Postby lostlawman » Sun Feb 26, 2012 9:06 am

cinephile wrote:Negotiate away the scholarship stipulations.

Also, don't assume that you'll perform better at one school over another just because of the lower median scores of the entering class.

ETA: Just saw those stipulations. If you can't get them lowered, go to Detroit Mercy (although that stipulation isn't great either, try to get that lowered too).

Or you can just do your best during 1L, but if you lose your scholarship be prepared to drop out.


Would it be better to send a letter to Wayne first? Would I say that I love would to go there but with how arbitrary law school grading can be and the situation of the legal economy, I don't want a large risk of losing my scholarship? Say I have this offer from UDM with a lower stipulation but if you were to lower or remove your stipulation I would go there?

lostlawman
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Re: TTT (full-tuition) v. TTTT (full-tuition)

Postby lostlawman » Sun Feb 26, 2012 9:10 am

MachineLemon wrote:Where else did you apply and what are your #s? Do you have any other acceptances you can leverage to get them to lose the stip?


Michigan State with 50% would really be the only other school that I could use to leverage. Other schools in that range barely offered me any money. Although State is very similar to Wayne so I don't see much leverage there.

lawlcat4179
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Re: TTT (full-tuition) v. TTTT (full-tuition)

Postby lawlcat4179 » Sun Feb 26, 2012 9:35 am

lostlawman wrote:Here is my situation. I have been accepted to both Wayne State and Detroit Mercy. I have lived in Michigan all my life and have ties here, so I plan on staying. Both of these schools are in Detroit so I would be able to live at home and save money. From what I have gathered, Wayne State places much better and is regarded as a better law school. However, with Detroit Mercy I would have a much better chance of retaining my scholarship since it has less qualified students and an easier stipulation. Which is the better school to attend? Is it worth it to attend Wayne, since of better placement and reputation in the state, although it may be harder to retain the scholarship? Would graduating from Wayne, with about 55k debt, if I were to lose the scholarship, still be better than Detroit Mercy? I know these are not top law schools, so I realize what I am getting myself into.

Wayne State - full tuition, 1/3 stip (3.25)
Detroit Mercy - full tuition, median stip (3.0)


I would email Wayne and tell them that you have serious concerns about the scholarship stipulation. Tell them that given the current state of the economy, you don't think you will be able to commit to them with such a draconian stipulation. Let them know that if they change the stipulation to median (the same as detroit mercy) you will withdraw all your other apps and commit to attending their school. This way you provide them with something (a guarantee of attendance), and they don't really have to give up much in the process.

Also, I wouldn't even mention detroit mercy's offer in the email. I highly doubt that they would take any offer from them seriously. Attending detroit mercy would be a pretty bad idea. They seem to be pretty comparable to Cooley. At least with Wayne you have a slight ~5% chance of a high paying job, with Mercy I would guess that number is virtually 0.

Even if Wayne doesn't change their stipulations, I would still pick them over Mercy. What I would do is go to Wayne, and if youre not in the top third, just drop out. Odds are you wouldn't be able to find any legal job from outside of the top third anyway, so no sense in paying them money.

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spleenworship
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Re: TTT (full-tuition) v. TTTT (full-tuition)

Postby spleenworship » Sun Feb 26, 2012 2:59 pm

lostlawman wrote:
spleenworship wrote:Go to the one that gives you the Windsor llb too. Assuming these are your only choices... You couldnt even get into Michigan state?


I did get into Michigan State. They offered me 50% scholarship. Even if I were to lose the scholarship at Wayne it would be cheaper than State with maintaining my scholarship. I much rather go to Wayne than State.


Just my understanding but actual legal jobs are twice as easy to get from Michigan state than the two schools you are considering. Sure, theyre better than Cooley, but who isn't?

lostlawman
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Re: TTT (full-tuition) v. TTTT (full-tuition)

Postby lostlawman » Mon Feb 27, 2012 11:20 am

[/quote]

Just my understanding but actual legal jobs are twice as easy to get from Michigan state than the two schools you are considering. Sure, theyre better than Cooley, but who isn't?[/quote]

Wayne is very comparable to State. Wayne places better in Metro-Detroit and State better in Lansing area. That is my understanding. Neither is great though.

lostlawman
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Re: TTT (full-tuition) v. TTTT (full-tuition)

Postby lostlawman » Mon Feb 27, 2012 12:20 pm

lawlcat4179 wrote:
lostlawman wrote:Here is my situation. I have been accepted to both Wayne State and Detroit Mercy. I have lived in Michigan all my life and have ties here, so I plan on staying. Both of these schools are in Detroit so I would be able to live at home and save money. From what I have gathered, Wayne State places much better and is regarded as a better law school. However, with Detroit Mercy I would have a much better chance of retaining my scholarship since it has less qualified students and an easier stipulation. Which is the better school to attend? Is it worth it to attend Wayne, since of better placement and reputation in the state, although it may be harder to retain the scholarship? Would graduating from Wayne, with about 55k debt, if I were to lose the scholarship, still be better than Detroit Mercy? I know these are not top law schools, so I realize what I am getting myself into.

Wayne State - full tuition, 1/3 stip (3.25)
Detroit Mercy - full tuition, median stip (3.0)


I would email Wayne and tell them that you have serious concerns about the scholarship stipulation. Tell them that given the current state of the economy, you don't think you will be able to commit to them with such a draconian stipulation. Let them know that if they change the stipulation to median (the same as detroit mercy) you will withdraw all your other apps and commit to attending their school. This way you provide them with something (a guarantee of attendance), and they don't really have to give up much in the process.

Also, I wouldn't even mention detroit mercy's offer in the email. I highly doubt that they would take any offer from them seriously. Attending detroit mercy would be a pretty bad idea. They seem to be pretty comparable to Cooley. At least with Wayne you have a slight ~5% chance of a high paying job, with Mercy I would guess that number is virtually 0.

Even if Wayne doesn't change their stipulations, I would still pick them over Mercy. What I would do is go to Wayne, and if youre not in the top third, just drop out. Odds are you wouldn't be able to find any legal job from outside of the top third anyway, so no sense in paying them money.



I see what you mean with not mentioning Detroit Mercy because they are not comparable to Wayne, but then I essentially have nothing to use to leverage. It would be better to have no comparable leverage than at least a comparable scholarship with a lesser stipulation?

lawlcat4179
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Re: TTT (full-tuition) v. TTTT (full-tuition)

Postby lawlcat4179 » Mon Feb 27, 2012 4:11 pm

lostlawman wrote:
lawlcat4179 wrote:
lostlawman wrote:Here is my situation. I have been accepted to both Wayne State and Detroit Mercy. I have lived in Michigan all my life and have ties here, so I plan on staying. Both of these schools are in Detroit so I would be able to live at home and save money. From what I have gathered, Wayne State places much better and is regarded as a better law school. However, with Detroit Mercy I would have a much better chance of retaining my scholarship since it has less qualified students and an easier stipulation. Which is the better school to attend? Is it worth it to attend Wayne, since of better placement and reputation in the state, although it may be harder to retain the scholarship? Would graduating from Wayne, with about 55k debt, if I were to lose the scholarship, still be better than Detroit Mercy? I know these are not top law schools, so I realize what I am getting myself into.

Wayne State - full tuition, 1/3 stip (3.25)
Detroit Mercy - full tuition, median stip (3.0)


I would email Wayne and tell them that you have serious concerns about the scholarship stipulation. Tell them that given the current state of the economy, you don't think you will be able to commit to them with such a draconian stipulation. Let them know that if they change the stipulation to median (the same as detroit mercy) you will withdraw all your other apps and commit to attending their school. This way you provide them with something (a guarantee of attendance), and they don't really have to give up much in the process.

Also, I wouldn't even mention detroit mercy's offer in the email. I highly doubt that they would take any offer from them seriously. Attending detroit mercy would be a pretty bad idea. They seem to be pretty comparable to Cooley. At least with Wayne you have a slight ~5% chance of a high paying job, with Mercy I would guess that number is virtually 0.

Even if Wayne doesn't change their stipulations, I would still pick them over Mercy. What I would do is go to Wayne, and if youre not in the top third, just drop out. Odds are you wouldn't be able to find any legal job from outside of the top third anyway, so no sense in paying them money.



I see what you mean with not mentioning Detroit Mercy because they are not comparable to Wayne, but then I essentially have nothing to use to leverage. It would be better to have no comparable leverage than at least a comparable scholarship with a lesser stipulation?


Yeah, that's where I'm not entirely sure. I would ask some other people for advice, but in my opinion, I think you'd be better off trying to negotiate with "no" leverage. Here's why I come to that conclusion:

If you lay your cards out on the table, they know that there is no way you take mercy. It would be like trying to negotiate using Cooley as leverage. However, if you can make them think that you may not enroll anywhere, then they may be more likely to grant you what you're looking for. In this scenario, the "leverage" would be you sitting out a year and trying next year, even though you would have no real intention of doing so.

It sounds unorthodox and may not be the best way to go about it, but I just feel like Mercy is WAY to bad of a school to be of any benefit.

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romothesavior
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Re: TTT (full-tuition) v. TTTT (full-tuition)

Postby romothesavior » Tue Feb 28, 2012 1:10 pm

lawlcat4179 wrote:
lostlawman wrote:Here is my situation. I have been accepted to both Wayne State and Detroit Mercy. I have lived in Michigan all my life and have ties here, so I plan on staying. Both of these schools are in Detroit so I would be able to live at home and save money. From what I have gathered, Wayne State places much better and is regarded as a better law school. However, with Detroit Mercy I would have a much better chance of retaining my scholarship since it has less qualified students and an easier stipulation. Which is the better school to attend? Is it worth it to attend Wayne, since of better placement and reputation in the state, although it may be harder to retain the scholarship? Would graduating from Wayne, with about 55k debt, if I were to lose the scholarship, still be better than Detroit Mercy? I know these are not top law schools, so I realize what I am getting myself into.

Wayne State - full tuition, 1/3 stip (3.25)
Detroit Mercy - full tuition, median stip (3.0)


I would email Wayne and tell them that you have serious concerns about the scholarship stipulation. Tell them that given the current state of the economy, you don't think you will be able to commit to them with such a draconian stipulation. Let them know that if they change the stipulation to median (the same as detroit mercy) you will withdraw all your other apps and commit to attending their school. This way you provide them with something (a guarantee of attendance), and they don't really have to give up much in the process.

Also, I wouldn't even mention detroit mercy's offer in the email. I highly doubt that they would take any offer from them seriously. Attending detroit mercy would be a pretty bad idea. They seem to be pretty comparable to Cooley. At least with Wayne you have a slight ~5% chance of a high paying job, with Mercy I would guess that number is virtually 0.

Even if Wayne doesn't change their stipulations, I would still pick them over Mercy. What I would do is go to Wayne, and if youre not in the top third, just drop out. Odds are you wouldn't be able to find any legal job from outside of the top third anyway, so no sense in paying them money.

I pretty much agree with all of this.

lawlcat4179
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Re: TTT (full-tuition) v. TTTT (full-tuition)

Postby lawlcat4179 » Tue Feb 28, 2012 9:20 pm

romothesavior wrote:
lawlcat4179 wrote:
lostlawman wrote:Here is my situation. I have been accepted to both Wayne State and Detroit Mercy. I have lived in Michigan all my life and have ties here, so I plan on staying. Both of these schools are in Detroit so I would be able to live at home and save money. From what I have gathered, Wayne State places much better and is regarded as a better law school. However, with Detroit Mercy I would have a much better chance of retaining my scholarship since it has less qualified students and an easier stipulation. Which is the better school to attend? Is it worth it to attend Wayne, since of better placement and reputation in the state, although it may be harder to retain the scholarship? Would graduating from Wayne, with about 55k debt, if I were to lose the scholarship, still be better than Detroit Mercy? I know these are not top law schools, so I realize what I am getting myself into.

Wayne State - full tuition, 1/3 stip (3.25)
Detroit Mercy - full tuition, median stip (3.0)


I would email Wayne and tell them that you have serious concerns about the scholarship stipulation. Tell them that given the current state of the economy, you don't think you will be able to commit to them with such a draconian stipulation. Let them know that if they change the stipulation to median (the same as detroit mercy) you will withdraw all your other apps and commit to attending their school. This way you provide them with something (a guarantee of attendance), and they don't really have to give up much in the process.

Also, I wouldn't even mention detroit mercy's offer in the email. I highly doubt that they would take any offer from them seriously. Attending detroit mercy would be a pretty bad idea. They seem to be pretty comparable to Cooley. At least with Wayne you have a slight ~5% chance of a high paying job, with Mercy I would guess that number is virtually 0.

Even if Wayne doesn't change their stipulations, I would still pick them over Mercy. What I would do is go to Wayne, and if youre not in the top third, just drop out. Odds are you wouldn't be able to find any legal job from outside of the top third anyway, so no sense in paying them money.

I pretty much agree with all of this.


I forgot to mention earlier, but there is also a slightly more convoluted way to handle this. The other option you have is that you could use your full ride at Wayne as leverage to get MSU to increase their scholly. Then, if MSU increases their scholly you could in turn use that to leverage against wayne reducing their stipulations. Using a 75% scholly at MSU would be more leverage than a full ride from Mercy (by quite a margin). Just something to think about.

lostlawman
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Re: TTT (full-tuition) v. TTTT (full-tuition)

Postby lostlawman » Wed Feb 29, 2012 6:36 pm

Thanks for the replies. I thought about talking to MSU. I was probably going to just send a letter to Wayne since I only have one month to commit. Do I send an official letter by mail or can I email them? Is one better than the other? Also, where do I send the letter? Financial Aid? Admissions? Thanks again.

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spleenworship
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Re: TTT (full-tuition) v. TTTT (full-tuition)

Postby spleenworship » Wed Feb 29, 2012 7:18 pm

lostlawman wrote:Thanks for the replies. I thought about talking to MSU. I was probably going to just send a letter to Wayne since I only have one month to commit. Do I send an official letter by mail or can I email them? Is one better than the other? Also, where do I send the letter? Financial Aid? Admissions? Thanks again.


I would talk to MSU this week... you might get a decision in time.

Also, I love email for this... but I think you should try phone first. I negotiated all my schollys via email or the phone.




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