Northwestern Law vs. Georgetown vs. UC Irvine

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Northwestern Law vs. Georgetown vs. UC Irvine

Northwestern
50
70%
Georgetown
12
17%
University of California, Irvine
9
13%
 
Total votes: 71

econenthusiast09
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Northwestern Law vs. Georgetown vs. UC Irvine

Postby econenthusiast09 » Sat Feb 25, 2012 6:30 pm

Hi all,

As I have recently been waitlisted at just about every top 10 school to which I applied, I'm beginning to consider my options. I've been accepted to the three schools that I have listed in the subject line, with my only scholarship being $90k to Irvine. Here are my criteria:

1. I would like to work for a BigLaw either immediately after graduation or after a clerkship
2. I would like to eventually enter politics in my home state of California (am a huge public policy geek working on a master's degree in the subject)
3. I would like to go to a school where the student environment is collegial and collaborative as opposed to competitive

Any input would be much appreciated. Thanks!
Last edited by econenthusiast09 on Mon Feb 27, 2012 2:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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gaud
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Re: Northwestern Law vs. Georgetown vs. UC Irvine

Postby gaud » Sat Feb 25, 2012 6:32 pm

Northwestern will likely give you the best career options. I'd go there.

de5igual
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Re: Northwestern Law vs. Georgetown vs. UC Irvine

Postby de5igual » Sat Feb 25, 2012 6:35 pm

for a political career, would going to GULC make more sense?

i don't know...just curious here

barneytrouble
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Re: Northwestern Law vs. Georgetown vs. UC Irvine

Postby barneytrouble » Sat Feb 25, 2012 7:22 pm

f0bolous wrote:for a political career, would going to GULC make more sense?

i don't know...just curious here


for a political career, not going to law school would make the most sense.

09042014
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Re: Northwestern Law vs. Georgetown vs. UC Irvine

Postby 09042014 » Sat Feb 25, 2012 8:05 pm

If you want politics you should just volunteer for a Presidential campaign this year. Law school won't help you with politics.

econenthusiast09
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Re: Northwestern Law vs. Georgetown vs. UC Irvine

Postby econenthusiast09 » Sat Feb 25, 2012 10:54 pm

Desert Fox wrote:If you want politics you should just volunteer for a Presidential campaign this year. Law school won't help you with politics.


I live in the capital of my state, so if I wanted to just work in politics after my master's degree I could. I want to actually practice law and think about doing the whole politics things later.

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Chucky21
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Re: Northwestern Law vs. Georgetown vs. UC Irvine

Postby Chucky21 » Sat Feb 25, 2012 10:59 pm

I'd say GULC is more oriented to what you want to do. It gives you the option of Biglaw whilst also giving you the option to do internships in DC in gov't jobs and the like to get your foot in the door.

FinallyGoing
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Re: Northwestern Law vs. Georgetown vs. UC Irvine

Postby FinallyGoing » Sun Feb 26, 2012 2:41 am

Chucky21 wrote:I'd say GULC is more oriented to what you want to do. It gives you the option of Biglaw whilst also giving you the option to do internships in DC in gov't jobs and the like to get your foot in the door.

+1

09042014
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Re: Northwestern Law vs. Georgetown vs. UC Irvine

Postby 09042014 » Sun Feb 26, 2012 1:49 pm

Chucky21 wrote:I'd say GULC is more oriented to what you want to do. It gives you the option of Biglaw whilst also giving you the option to do internships in DC in gov't jobs and the like to get your foot in the door.


You aren't getting your foot in the door for politics by doing externships.

I think I'd pick either Northwestern or Irvine. How much debt would you have from Irvine?

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stewie27
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Re: Northwestern Law vs. Georgetown vs. UC Irvine

Postby stewie27 » Sun Feb 26, 2012 2:06 pm

I'd just throw in that if you want to become involved in politics in California, you probably want to get connected there. I don't think getting your foot in the door in DC would really help on a state level.

FinallyGoing
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Re: Northwestern Law vs. Georgetown vs. UC Irvine

Postby FinallyGoing » Sun Feb 26, 2012 2:43 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
Chucky21 wrote:I'd say GULC is more oriented to what you want to do. It gives you the option of Biglaw whilst also giving you the option to do internships in DC in gov't jobs and the like to get your foot in the door.


You aren't getting your foot in the door for politics by doing externships.



Actually that is precisely what you are doing.

FinallyGoing
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Re: Northwestern Law vs. Georgetown vs. UC Irvine

Postby FinallyGoing » Sun Feb 26, 2012 2:48 pm

stewie27 wrote:I'd just throw in that if you want to become involved in politics in California, you probably want to get connected there. I don't think getting your foot in the door in DC would really help on a state level.


If by "politics in California" you mean state politics then perhaps you are correct; however ignoring national offices such as congressional and senate seats for a moment, DC plays a huge role in state politics, especially CA politics. Many state agencies have DC offices.

It would probably help a bit if OP could be a bit more specific about what exactly they hope to do "in politics."

econenthusiast09
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Re: Northwestern Law vs. Georgetown vs. UC Irvine

Postby econenthusiast09 » Sun Feb 26, 2012 3:06 pm

FinallyGoing wrote:
stewie27 wrote:I'd just throw in that if you want to become involved in politics in California, you probably want to get connected there. I don't think getting your foot in the door in DC would really help on a state level.


If by "politics in California" you mean state politics then perhaps you are correct; however ignoring national offices such as congressional and senate seats for a moment, DC plays a huge role in state politics, especially CA politics. Many state agencies have DC offices.

It would probably help a bit if OP could be a bit more specific about what exactly they hope to do "in politics."


You're right, I can be more specific. I was referring to state politics in California, though national politics interest me as well.
Last edited by econenthusiast09 on Mon Feb 27, 2012 2:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

09042014
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Re: Northwestern Law vs. Georgetown vs. UC Irvine

Postby 09042014 » Sun Feb 26, 2012 3:14 pm

FinallyGoing wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
Chucky21 wrote:I'd say GULC is more oriented to what you want to do. It gives you the option of Biglaw whilst also giving you the option to do internships in DC in gov't jobs and the like to get your foot in the door.


You aren't getting your foot in the door for politics by doing externships.



Actually that is precisely what you are doing.


Gov't and politics is really different other than political appointees. He'd be 50X better just signing up for Obama's California campaign organization. If he wants biglawl, NW is better.

bdubs
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Re: Northwestern Law vs. Georgetown vs. UC Irvine

Postby bdubs » Sun Feb 26, 2012 3:19 pm

The best way in to politics is to make enough money and have enough connections to be an influential donor to a level or two above the office you're seeking.

Northwestern will give you the best opportunity to get a well compensated position in CA, which is what you need.

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moneybagsphd
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Re: Northwestern Law vs. Georgetown vs. UC Irvine

Postby moneybagsphd » Sun Feb 26, 2012 3:27 pm

I wouldn't touch Northwestern or Georgetown at sticker. Leverage your T14 acceptances to get a full scholly at Irvine.

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jrthor10
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Re: Northwestern Law vs. Georgetown vs. UC Irvine

Postby jrthor10 » Sun Feb 26, 2012 3:42 pm

People spew some weird shit on these boards. Take my advice below FWIW, but I have held jobs in a couple of political campaigns (including a presidential one) and I currently teach high school government. I'd like to at least think I have an idea of what I am talking about.

If you want to go into politics, a law degree is definitely helpful. I would compare to a (fairly) necessary but not sufficient condition. Those posters saying if you want to run for elected office you should just volunteer for a campaign, are wrong.

Volunteering/working for a campaign will get you on the right track to being a career political strategist or consultant. It will not, however, set you up to run for public office yourself.

Look at Congress or most governorships today. Most have an advanced degree, and most of those advanced degrees are JD's. Voters, correctly or not, still associate law degrees with a certain advanced level of intellectual prowess and attainment in society. As a result, some voters may simply vote for you because your resume seems to "fit" with that of people who should be in public office.

Lastly, the law school you attend does matter. You want to convey one of two things to likely voters: 1- you went to the best/one of the best school(s) in your home state (which will in turn allow you to get local connections). 2- You went to a highly national law school that helps you project an image of someone who belongs in politics (see above).

Given all of this, I would go to either GULC or Irvine. Lay prestige matters more when you are running for office, and Northwestern doesn't really have it. Of course, if you are most concerned about getting a high paying job right out of school, go to Northwestern.

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cylon_clone
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Re: Northwestern Law vs. Georgetown vs. UC Irvine

Postby cylon_clone » Sun Feb 26, 2012 3:47 pm

Did you not get into USC/UCLA or just didn't include them because they didn't include scholarships? With NW and GTown acceptances I'd think at least one of those schools would bite. If you want to get into politics, there's nothing better to establish connections than a strong Trojan network and an overhyped football team.

Northwestern might get you back to California, but I doubt ties to Chicago politics or Chicago in general will help you much in California.

Obviously, GTown's advantage comes from the political opportunities it creates. But, as others have said, you can also come by those opportunities by staying in California and cultivating a political network there.

And agree with moneybagsphd - squeeze out more scholarship money from UC Irvine.

econenthusiast09
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Re: Northwestern Law vs. Georgetown vs. UC Irvine

Postby econenthusiast09 » Sun Feb 26, 2012 3:58 pm

cylon_clone wrote:Did you not get into USC/UCLA or just didn't include them because they didn't include scholarships? With NW and GTown acceptances I'd think at least one of those schools would bite. If you want to get into politics, there's nothing better to establish connections than a strong Trojan network and an overhyped football team.

Northwestern might get you back to California, but I doubt ties to Chicago politics or Chicago in general will help you much in California.

Obviously, GTown's advantage comes from the political opportunities it creates. But, as others have said, you can also come by those opportunities by staying in California and cultivating a political network there.

And agree with moneybagsphd - squeeze out more scholarship money from UC Irvine.


I was waitlisted at UCLA and haven't heard back from USC yet. If I was able to get a full ride to Irvine, that would make a huge difference. Money notwithstanding, UCI seems like something of a risk because it isn't ranked now, but will be by the time I graduate. This would link to employment opportunities. Still, Irvine would be a great place to live and Orange County is a major player in Cali politics.

econenthusiast09
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Re: Northwestern Law vs. Georgetown vs. UC Irvine

Postby econenthusiast09 » Sun Feb 26, 2012 4:03 pm

bdubs wrote:The best way in to politics is to make enough money and have enough connections to be an influential donor to a level or two above the office you're seeking.

Northwestern will give you the best opportunity to get a well compensated position in CA, which is what you need.


That has been my logic over the past few days whenever I've given this thought. Plus, the idea of going to a T-14 is appealing. Still, the tradeoffs are lay prestige and a Cali network, but I could be mistaken about that one.

FinallyGoing
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Re: Northwestern Law vs. Georgetown vs. UC Irvine

Postby FinallyGoing » Sun Feb 26, 2012 4:14 pm

I don't want to give out too much identifying information, but as an OC native, a grad of H/Y/P and a former political operative, I would really love to hear someone explain how OP is going to make any substantive political connections in OC. The person who posted about the Trojan network is correct, USC's ties run much deeper and wider than anything else in SoCal let alone OC (the still-bedroom community of LA)...sort of rendering UCI irrelevant in this context.

Did you apply to Davis/Hastings?
What sort of office are you looking to snatch first?
You describe yourself as sort of a policy-wonk but that you also want to hold elected office...if your end goal is to hold office, go to GULC/NU move back to CA, work hard build ties to the community and run for city council or perhaps the CA assembly and then move your way up. Demographics are going to play a huge role in this as well..make sure you pick a place to live that would be electorally friendly to you and not likely to change in the several years you are working.

For those who aren't making the connection, insofar as politics need $$ and a lot of $$ comes from SIs, GULC provides the best opportunity for OP to network with potential future supporters in a relevant context. For as intriguing and and good a law school I believe UCI to be, I just don't see it as being a good fit for the OP.

EDIT: OP.."Orange County is a major player in CA politics..." Care to elaborate???

bdubs
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Re: Northwestern Law vs. Georgetown vs. UC Irvine

Postby bdubs » Sun Feb 26, 2012 4:22 pm

FinallyGoing wrote:For those who aren't making the connection, insofar as politics need $$ and a lot of $$ comes from SIs, GULC provides the best opportunity for OP to network with potential future supporters in a relevant context. For as intriguing and and good a law school I believe UCI to be, I just don't see it as being a good fit for the OP.


That is an assbackward statement. Special interest groups build connections with the politician, not the other way around. Before you're in the game it won't matter that much who you know in various lobbying groups, especially for state politics. It would be slightly different if OP worked within the industry that the SI focused on (e.g. big oil person might get backing for a political campaign in an influential district if they were already a viable candidate for other reasons)

FinallyGoing
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Re: Northwestern Law vs. Georgetown vs. UC Irvine

Postby FinallyGoing » Sun Feb 26, 2012 4:39 pm

bdubs wrote:
FinallyGoing wrote:For those who aren't making the connection, insofar as politics need $$ and a lot of $$ comes from SIs, GULC provides the best opportunity for OP to network with potential future supporters in a relevant context. For as intriguing and and good a law school I believe UCI to be, I just don't see it as being a good fit for the OP.


That is an assbackward statement. Special interest groups build connections with the politician, not the other way around. Before you're in the game it won't matter that much who you know in various lobbying groups, especially for state politics. It would be slightly different if OP worked within the industry that the SI focused on (e.g. big oil person might get backing for a political campaign in an influential district if they were already a viable candidate for other reasons)


I have no idea from what perspective you are opining from; however what may have been true at some point is not necessarily still true. Apologizes to the OP for the digression, but in this day and age politicians are being groomed more than ever. Community organizing, tea parties, labor unions, and various other micro-political action entities all feed ballots in fairly consistent ways.

Oh, and if you think relationship building between special interests and politicians is a one way street (especially at the state level) I would have to respectfully say that you are mistaken. I mean, do you reaaalllly believe that?

bdubs
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Re: Northwestern Law vs. Georgetown vs. UC Irvine

Postby bdubs » Sun Feb 26, 2012 4:47 pm

FinallyGoing wrote:I have no idea from what perspective you are opining from; however what may have been true at some point is not necessarily still true. Apologizes to the OP for the digression, but in this day and age politicians are being groomed more than ever. Community organizing, tea parties, labor unions, and various other micro-political action entities all feed ballots in fairly consistent ways.

Oh, and if you think relationship building between special interests and politicians is a one way street (especially at the state level) I would have to respectfully say that you are mistaken. I mean, do you reaaalllly believe that?


Do I think that existing or aspiring politicians work to build relationships with particular special interest groups? Yes, undoubtedly they do. But you can't go and establish those kinds of relationships as a law student with no political potential. You have very little idea what office you might be able to be competitive for, and very few ways of demonstrating potential even if you knew which offices and special interests would be relevant.

Building a political career is a long term play, and the groundwork that OP can do as a law student is largely limited to what kind of position he can secure himself after graduating. The biggest dividends will be paid by graduating at the top of his class at a well regarded school and getting a prestigious set of positions in his home market, not by meeting some random lobbyists in DC.

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Shooter
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Re: Northwestern Law vs. Georgetown vs. UC Irvine

Postby Shooter » Sun Feb 26, 2012 4:48 pm

This thread was tl;dr, but a law degree is definitely helpful in politics. I have no idea why anyone would say otherwise. Is a law degree a sufficient condition for a career in politics? Obviously not. But honestly who would make such a naive assumption?

Also, because heuristics play such a huge role in American politics, lay prestige is important. Georgetown is the clear winner here.




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