MSU full tuition vs. CU sticker Forum

[AVBucks4239]

Also, why do you want to do PT? If you want any chance of getting top 10%, you should not get a job during your 1L year.

[kalvano]

Something is wrong with your application or your PS. URM status plus a moderately decent GPA should have gotten you in to some of these places. 156 isn't great, but combined with URM status, it should be getting you in to some T50 and T100 schools.

[Lincoln]

If you don't want to listen to advice, there's little use in posting on this forum.

[AVBucks4239]

Also, if you think I'm bullshitting you or speaking from some high-horse, numbers only perspective, here's the thread I made two years ago. I was very close to going to Capital (TTT in Columbus) and asked whether I should reapply next cycle.

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 1&t=124013

The result of your poll will be more lopsided.

[rad lulz]

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[rad lulz]

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[AVBucks4239]

I've lived in Dallas my whole life. Never left. I went to college right outside of Dallas. I've held down the same job for four years, and my other job for three years simultaneously. I have a good work history of staying in the same job and my employers will vouch for that. And no, I haven't been working at like a Burger King or something. I've worked for a huge private school in Dallas as a Tennis Pro Shop Manager for over four years now plus my other job while going to school. It sounds stupid on a forum like this but just because I am willing to leave Texas does not mean I am the jump ship type.

If this is on your resume, this will make you seem like you want to jump ship to Dallas.

Exactly. OP is underestimating how regional these schools are and how important ties can be for obtaining meaningful employment.

[cinephile]

I just don't get why someone would absolutely have to go to law school this year. It's really short-sighted when you think that your career is going to last a lifetime. It's in your best interest to maximize your potential, and one year out of a forty year career is nothing.

[AVBucks4239]

Lastly, OP:

The tone here is so strong against you going to Colorado or Michigan State because it is that clear cut that you should sit out a year and re-take. I mean honestly, it's not close.

It comes off harsh in the thread, which is why I keep encouraging you to make a poll. When 95% of people vote that you should take a year off, you might be able to understand this easier.

Also, you come off as a pretty prideful person. I get that. You've had a lot of success so far and you fear that maybe telling your parents or friends that you are going to sit out a year will be a blow to your reputation. BUT, when you explain you are trying to get into better schools and make a ton of scholarship money, it will make sense. More importantly, if you do better and get into top schools, you're going to feel really good telling your friends that "I go to [insert way better and more reputable school than Colorado or Michigan State]."

[traehekat]

Traehekat- As for retaking the LSAT- I'd prefer not to. I'm AWFUL at taking standardized tests. I was scoring 168-172 range on practice tests for months but bombed it during the real thing. Same thing happened with my SAT. I'm just not good with those kinds of things. Just because you CAN take it three times, doesn't mean that you should. As far as I'm concerned a 156 is good enough for me. No sense in digging a deeper hole (*yes I know schools take your highest LSAT but still).

Have to be blunt here, Lindsey, you are nuts. I was suggesting you retake assuming that you were probably PT'ing in the 158-162 range, but you were actually in the 170 range for months? You would be crazy not to retake the LSAT. "Just because CAN take it three times, doesn't mean that you should." THIS IS EMPHATICALLY INCORRECT. Almost everyone should be taking the LSAT 3 times, and you are no exception. By the way, attending law school with a 156 is likely only going to lead to a lifetime full of debt and poor job prospects. That is "good enough" for you? Why in God's name would you not want to put yourself in the best position to succeed and just retake?

Colorado has been extremely generous in even accepting me to their program in the first place and I feel as though I could really excel in their environment. I have ZERO requests as to the part of the country I want to work in, but Colorado sounds pretty nice to me. I do not need to be in Dallas or even Tx for that matter. So location does not play in as a factor for me. As far as jobs go, I'm not exactly the kind of person that a firm would expect to "jump ship" in comparison to someone who has lived their whole life in Colorado. I'll take a job wherever I can get it. Thats the best I can do.

It doesn't matter that location really doesn't matter for you, all that matters is what firms believe, and let me tell you this: THEY WILL NOT BELIEVE YOU. Even if they did think there was a chance you are being sincere, why would they risk it? Especially when firms in Colorado are only going to hire like 3-4 summer associates TOTAL.

This is the best way I can put it for you - it is not every day that you could be making the absolute worst decision of your life. This is one of those times. Deciding to go to one of these schools (particularly CU at sticker with no ties to the region) may be the worst decision you ever make, and could quite possibly ruin you financially. Please, you need to take the advice from those who are just giving it to you straight.

[sparty99]

Look, you need to get it together. First, you have no full-time professional work experience. If you don't succeed in law school, you will have VERY FEW options in terms of employment. Top 10% is very hard to achieve. You weren't even top 10% in undergrad. Law school grades on a curve. In a 50 person class, five people will get A's. YOU ARE TAKING A HUGE AND FOOLISH RISK THINKING YOU CAN BE TOP 10%.

Second, MSU is no legal powerhouse. Your classmates will be gunning so they can transfer out of MSU to Michigan or a higher tier law school. I went to MSU undergrad, so for me to speak negatively of my school is not easy. However, I would not recommend their law program, especially if you have zero ties to Michigan. You will almost be stuck there because only Michigan firms will recruit heavily at MSU. Do you really want to live in ghetto-Detroit and the cold winters when you have lived in Dallas all your life?

Third, you should get work experience. You are only 20. THERE IS NO NEED FOR YOU TO RUSH THIS DECISION. I scored MUCH LOWER than you did on the LSAT, gained work experience and have a scholarship at a Top 30 law school...I took the LSAT once and there are some days where I wish I would have given it another shot. I would have killed for a 156. I'd probably be at a Top 10 - 20 if I scored that. Your employment prospects out of the schools you mentioned will be WEAK.

SMU is a great school. If you scored a 160 or worked for three years, i am almost positive you could get accepted. You would have nothing to offer their part time program at this time. The people in that program mostly have work experience. You are doing yourself a total dis-service by going to Colorado FT or MSU Part-Time and I am almost certain you will regret your decision.

Of your eight acceptances, I would chose NONE of them.

[kalvano]

Who wants to go to law school when you can't legally purchase alcohol, a vital component of surviving law school?

[zanda]

I am shocked that the word "snowflake" has not yet appeared ITT.

[AVBucks4239]

Who wants to go to law school when you can't legally purchase alcohol, a vital component of surviving law school?

Credited.

OP, if you heed one piece of advice from this thread, at least make that poll so you know that we aren't just ganging up on you here.

Best of luck to ya.

[sunynp]

OP - you realize that people are telling you to retake because they have confidence you can do better. You don't seem to have that confidence. You need to figure out why you have trouble on the exam - do you run out of time? Do you have panic attacks and can't focus? Do you have concentration issue? Do you not sleep for days ahead of time so you can't sleep?

Figure out what is keeping you from getting the answers out of your head and on to the test. I think you can do this.

[AVBucks4239]

Something is wrong with your application or your PS. URM status plus a moderately decent GPA should have gotten you in to some of these places. 156 isn't great, but combined with URM status, it should be getting you in to some T50 and T100 schools.

Just re-read this thread because I REALLY don't want to start this 12(B)(6) motion. I think you're onto something here. OP has an unbelievable sense of entitlement and brags at every opportunity. She probably reflected that in her personal statement, thus she didn't get into some decent schools.

I did apply to SMU- I'm still furious with them for the auto reject because I'm fairly certain they never cracked open my application (I had way too many ties to that school and good reasons to be there to just be rejected like that).

As if you deserve a full review from SMU when your LSAT is 9 points below median and your GPA is .5 below.

I refuse to sit out a year or so and be punished for excelling quickly through undergrad.

Get over yourself.

I may only be 20, but that has never once stopped me from doing anything and I see it as a challenge as opposed to an obstacle.

Who gives a shit.

For one I don't see a point in paying sticker at Maine, CT, Tech, and really KU since they barely gave me anything. So they were out since their rankings werent the best for the money. Second, Penn State didn't offer me enough money to offset the cost of tuition since they do not have instate for years two and three. Missouri just wasnt cutting it with their amount of scholarship money to help me offset the negative aspects associated with their rankings and their employment prospects.

Do you see the irony when you start a thread basically asking, "Colorado FT no scholarship or Michigan State PT full scholarship?

It would be so nice to come out completely debt free after leaving MSU and also being able to go to school part time would give me more time to study so I could be in the top 10%. (NOTE: I will be in the top 10% if it kills me- ambitious, I know. But I can do it).

You're not entitled to top 10% for working hard.

Side Note: good luck explaining to employers that you are part time just to have less of a course-load. Other part-timers will have kids and full time jobs. Meanwhile, you're just trying to take an easy way out. Also, like I said, PT students have their own rankings compared to FT students.

As for retaking the LSAT- I'd prefer not to...Just because you CAN take it three times, doesn't mean that you should. As far as I'm concerned a 156 is good enough for me. No sense in digging a deeper hole (*yes I know schools take your highest LSAT but still).

Easily the dumbest thing you've said in this thread. You should retake, no question.

I have no debt from undergrad and a large savings account so at any of these schools I choose I'm coming out with very little if any debt.

Nobody cares about your savings account. The opinions here reflect the fact that you're going to be climbing an uphill battle that you don't need to climb.

I studied a ridiculous amount for the LSAT. I had one of the best private tutors three days a week, two hours a day for three months. I had 4-5 hours of homework assigned to me every night that was due the next day.

Great. Now go retake.

I do understand your opinion, but I've taken the LSAT twice... June 151 and October 156 (my original practice test starting score was a 149- I took it at 17 years old).

As if anybody gives a shit that you took the LSAT when you were 17.

I've beaten the odds countless times in my life. The odds will probably never be in favor of the 20 year old law student from Texas in another state. But given some time, I'll be able to prove everyone wrong just as I always have. Odds are statistics--- But not everyone is a statistic. Every once in a while, someone defies those odds.

I don't know how I missed this. Wow. Anyway, law school is not the place to challenge a statistic.

And for the sake of fucking fuck, NOBODY CARES THAT YOU'RE 20.

AVBucks4239- its LOPSIDED not lobsided... just FYI.

That came after I spent 20 minutes trying to give you advice that you asked for. You're super nice.

I'm out of time to look for more but you get my drift. You asked what 2 + 2 equaled, we told you it was 4, now you want to scream and cry that it's 5. Proceed at your own peril.

[lawlcat4179]

How many times have we seen this logic...

1. I have a terrible GPA, but it will be in no way indicative of how I'll do in law school (I'll just try harder)
2. I tried really hard on the LSAT, and failed, but it will be in no way indicative of how I'll do in law school (I'll just try harder)
3. I refuse to take the time to get a full-time job and take a couple years off and improve my LSAT to go to a better school. Sure, I can't find a job decent enough to warrant the time off, but it of course is no way indicative of how I'll do in law school (I'll just try harder)
4. Then law school will roll around, they'll be outside of the top 25%, and talk about how biased the grading is, and about how they'll find a way to get a job anyway (because they'll just try harder)

The sad thing is that people are genuinely trying to help. Unfortunately, help can only be offered to those who are humble enough to listen. So my advice, flip a coin. MSU and Colorado are equally bad, might as well let fate choose.

Also, is no one else skeptical of the claim about PTing in the low 170's? A score anywhere near that would probably get them into a T10, I just don't believe someone would be so misguided as to go to MSU part-time over a possible T10, it would be absolute lunacy. Plus, the OP's personality seems to fit such an embellishment.

Also: AvBucks has been the most honest person in this thread. Pretty much +1 to everything they've said.

[acirilli1722]

If MSU was full-time I would say go for it, Free tuition plus cheap COL would keep debt low. However I wouldn't do part-time unless you had some kind of legitimate employment while in LS. If by great job you mean Big law then you will have to finish very high in your class at either and I wouldn't count on that, some of the most common advice here is to never assume you will be ranked high enough in your class to transfer or be top 10%. You are only 20 which is two years younger than most people going to LS right after undergrad so taking a year off wouldn't be bad and would allow you a chance to up your scores for a more reputable school especially as a URM which would be significantly better if you are set on biglaw. OOS tuition for CU is close to 40k and the part-time thing for MSU is iffy. You shouldn't need to get too much better on your LSAT for schollys at the other schools you listed. Try for a 160. If I had to choose though I would take MSU, Little to no debt is better than 160k.

[AVBucks4239]

If MSU was full-time I would say go for it, Free tuition plus cheap COL would keep debt low. However I wouldn't do part-time unless you had some kind of legitimate employment while in LS. If by great job you mean Big law then you will have to finish very high in your class at either and I wouldn't count on that, some of the most common advice here is to never assume you will be ranked high enough in your class to transfer or be top 10%. You are only 20 which is two years younger than most people going to LS right after undergrad so taking a year off wouldn't be bad and would allow you a chance to up your scores for a more reputable school especially as a URM which would be significantly better if you are set on biglaw. OOS tuition for CU is close to 40k and the part-time thing for MSU is iffy. You shouldn't need to get too much better on your LSAT for schollys at the other schools you listed. Try for a 160. If I had to choose though I would take MSU, Little to no debt is better than 160k.

Somehow, through all of my posts thus far, I haven't gotten to costs of Colorado yet.

For Colorado, first year tuition is $38k. Assuming (and this is a huge assumption) you can get in state for 2L and 3L, tuition for those years will be $31k. Also keep in mind that tuition will likely rise 6% through your three years. So, all things favorable to you, that's $106k from tuition. You are then looking at $1500 per year for books and supplies. That's $4500. Cost of living in Boulder can't be cheap, especially when you don't know anyone. The law school's site estimates $12k/year (that seems low), but we will stick with that. That's $36k over 3 years.

Just going from the school's website, 1L will cost you $57k. 2L and 3L will cost $50k. So, that's $157k in debt the second you walk out the door at CU, not including interest. You said you'll take any job, but don't you see how difficult it will be to make an (at minimum) $1100 loan payment making $40k a year?

As for Michigan State, I can't emphasize this enough, PT programs aren't as respected as FT. Infinitely more pertinant to you is the fact that you can't do PT just for the hell of it. You need to have some kids or a normal 9-5 job to pull that off without it sounding bad in an interview. Saying, "Well since I'm only 20 I thought [insert terrible bullshit excuse here]" will all but guarantee you don't get hired. They will think, "You didn't think you could handle FT law school? How could you think you could work 60 hours a week at our firm?"

Long story short, both are bad options for different reasons. CU will put you in a huge amount of debt while MSU won't open any doors for you if you go the PT route.

[benburns214]

However, DON'T PAY FULL-PRICE AT ANY LAW SCHOOL UNLESS IT IS YALE/HARVARD and even then I would proceed with caution.

Lol TROLL IN THE DUNGEON!! Thought you outta know

[AVBucks4239]

Where oh where is OP...

[sparty99]

Where oh where is OP...

Who cares. I'm over her and her entitled a$$.

If she wants to go to MSU, fine. I heard they have an awesome basketball team.

[notstevedoocy]

They both sound like whack options....

However, DON'T PAY FULL-PRICE AT ANY LAW SCHOOL UNLESS IT IS YALE/HARVARD and even then I would proceed with caution.

What world do you live in? Law school is an investment that returns itself to those that do well in it. As a matter of fact, there are BigLaw firms that PREFER Georgetown, Columbia, NYU, and Chicago to those schools. Saying shit just exacerbates the snobbish reputation of the Ivy League.

[romothesavior]

Awful options for someone from not from these areas. Do not go to either. Retake the LSAT, find a cheap and reputable option in an area where you have substantial ties, or don't go.