Big Law Silicon Valley: UT v UCLA v Cornell v UCD

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jwahba
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Big Law Silicon Valley: UT v UCLA v Cornell v UCD

Postby jwahba » Fri Feb 24, 2012 9:41 pm

Is there any data available? If not anecdotes would do just fine.

r6_philly
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Re: Big Law Silicon Valley: UT v UCLA v Cornell v UCD

Postby r6_philly » Fri Feb 24, 2012 10:50 pm

jwahba wrote:Is there any data available? If not anecdotes would do just fine.


Look at the firms you are interested in and browse their site for bios. I'd vote Cornell from my limited experience, T14 is still good to have. If all $$$ equal.

de5igual
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Re: Big Law Silicon Valley: UT v UCLA v Cornell v UCD

Postby de5igual » Sat Feb 25, 2012 12:38 pm

look on nalp and see which schools the firms recruit at

just browsing some of them, it seems UCLA >>> UT/Cornell

jwahba
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Re: Big Law Silicon Valley: UT v UCLA v Cornell v UCD

Postby jwahba » Sat Feb 25, 2012 1:05 pm

f0bolous wrote:look on nalp and see which schools the firms recruit at

just browsing some of them, it seems UCLA >>> UT/Cornell



Could you post a link to the data on nalp? I never used the site before.

de5igual
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Re: Big Law Silicon Valley: UT v UCLA v Cornell v UCD

Postby de5igual » Sat Feb 25, 2012 1:09 pm

jwahba wrote:
f0bolous wrote:look on nalp and see which schools the firms recruit at

just browsing some of them, it seems UCLA >>> UT/Cornell



Could you post a link to the data on nalp? I never used the site before.


--LinkRemoved--

jwahba
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Re: Big Law Silicon Valley: UT v UCLA v Cornell v UCD

Postby jwahba » Sat Feb 25, 2012 1:10 pm

Thank you very much!

r6_philly
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Re: Big Law Silicon Valley: UT v UCLA v Cornell v UCD

Postby r6_philly » Sat Feb 25, 2012 2:56 pm

f0bolous wrote:look on nalp and see which schools the firms recruit at

just browsing some of them, it seems UCLA >>> UT/Cornell


Just because they recruit there doesn't mean they would prefer grads from there. It's easier and more cost efficient to recruit in CA. You can still get interviews and jobs from the East Coast even though they don't recruit at the school.

de5igual
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Re: Big Law Silicon Valley: UT v UCLA v Cornell v UCD

Postby de5igual » Sat Feb 25, 2012 3:07 pm

r6_philly wrote:
f0bolous wrote:look on nalp and see which schools the firms recruit at

just browsing some of them, it seems UCLA >>> UT/Cornell


Just because they recruit there doesn't mean they would prefer grads from there. It's easier and more cost efficient to recruit in CA. You can still get interviews and jobs from the East Coast even though they don't recruit at the school.


true, but when these firms are still going to places like NYU and Columbia, it's a lot less likely that it's merely a travel concern that prevents them from also recruiting at Cornell. Don't get me wrong, Cornell is a great school and does fantastic in placing people into NYC biglaw. But this idea that it holds a "T14 prestige" clout over UCLA on the west coast, especially when hiring data proves otherwise, is really misguided.

edit to say: if cost is equal, i'd personally choose cornell since i think the better placement in biglaw generally outweighs the benefits UCLA has over it for Silicon Valley specifically.

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Re: Big Law Silicon Valley: UT v UCLA v Cornell v UCD

Postby r6_philly » Sat Feb 25, 2012 3:32 pm

^ agree.

It would be cool if we could tell how many Cornell students from CA found employment in CA. I do know for Penn, they run a regional interview program in CA before OCI, and most grads from CA find jobs back in CA. Maybe a Cornell student can shed more light on this.

If OP is admitted to Cornell, ask the school to provide some real/useful data on CA placement.

jwahba
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Re: Big Law Silicon Valley: UT v UCLA v Cornell v UCD

Postby jwahba » Sun Feb 26, 2012 12:37 am

Thanks for the advice. I actually still haven't heard back from Cornell but I am a very strong consider(74% at/below) on lsn, and they sent me both a fee and a deadline waiver (hence me not hearing back from them yet). If I do hear back from them, I will be sure to ask them for their numbers on CA.

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gotmilk?
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Re: Big Law Silicon Valley: UT v UCLA v Cornell v UCD

Postby gotmilk? » Sun Feb 26, 2012 1:18 am

The two big questions here are 1. Whether you are from SV, and 2. Whether you want IP AND have a technical background. If the answer is yes to both, I'd guess that you'd be best off going to whichever of the UT/UCLA/Cornell trio gives you the most $$. As for UCD, I've heard from people who have gone there that it has pretty bleak employment prospects.

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Re: Big Law Silicon Valley: UT v UCLA v Cornell v UCD

Postby r6_philly » Sun Feb 26, 2012 2:00 am

gotmilk? wrote:The two big questions here are 1. Whether you are from SV, and 2. Whether you want IP AND have a technical background. If the answer is yes to both, I'd guess that you'd be best off going to whichever of the UT/UCLA/Cornell trio gives you the most $$. As for UCD, I've heard from people who have gone there that it has pretty bleak employment prospects.


You only need 1 or 2, not both.

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gotmilk?
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Re: Big Law Silicon Valley: UT v UCLA v Cornell v UCD

Postby gotmilk? » Sun Feb 26, 2012 2:19 am

r6_philly wrote:
gotmilk? wrote:The two big questions here are 1. Whether you are from SV, and 2. Whether you want IP AND have a technical background. If the answer is yes to both, I'd guess that you'd be best off going to whichever of the UT/UCLA/Cornell trio gives you the most $$. As for UCD, I've heard from people who have gone there that it has pretty bleak employment prospects.


You only need 1 or 2, not both.


On the surface level, yes. In reality, not quite. Being from SV (or having significant SV ties of some other sort, like spouse's family) really checks a box more than anything. Outside of people who have really top grades at top schools who any firm would be dumb not to hire regardless, hiring at SV firms/SV offices is dominated by people with SV ties (partially in a self-selecting way, but I think it is definitely an important factor in the process). In other words, absent some other really compelling reason to be hired, SV ties are more of a prerequisite than something that affirmatively gets you the job. By contrast, a technical background (and stated interest in IP) is something that gets you the job. It can also make up for a lack of ties because firms presume that people with IP interests want to be in SV. So to make a slightly more nuanced conclusion,
TL;DR: If you've got a technical background, go to any respectable school where you get the most $$, and location doesn't matter as much because you can go to the Loyola patent fair. If you've only got SV ties, school rank, school location, and GPA matter much more, so you might want to consider UCLA a bit more than UT and Cornell. If you've got both, go to the school that gives you the most $$ that isn't named Davis (except for maybe if you get a free ride there).

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Re: Big Law Silicon Valley: UT v UCLA v Cornell v UCD

Postby r6_philly » Sun Feb 26, 2012 2:40 am

I read it twice, and I still don't get what you are disagreeing with.

1. if you have SV ties, then you are in good shape unless you have bad grades (then you are pwned anyway from UCLA)

2. if you have IP background, then you are in good shape regardless of ties.

So maybe you are trying to say: if you have good grades, then you can go with 1 or 2. If you have bad grades, then 1 is not enough. That's not the same as "if you have both".

thesmark
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Re: Big Law Silicon Valley: UT v UCLA v Cornell v UCD

Postby thesmark » Sun Feb 26, 2012 3:06 am

I'm kind of in a similar situation (want to land a job in SV), where I'm down to Duke (who gave me $48K) and UCLA (who haven't given me anything yet, but said they will get back to me next week). I've lived my whole life in the Bay Area but have no tech background; if UCLA matches (or even slightly exceeds) Duke's offer, which should I choose? On one hand, UCLA gets many more SV firms for OCI, but on the other hand, I would be competing against a major chunk of my class for Bay Area jobs at UCLA vs. not as much competition at Duke. Also, I like the smaller class sizes and more forgiving grading structure at Duke.

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L’Étranger
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Re: Big Law Silicon Valley: UT v UCLA v Cornell v UCD

Postby L’Étranger » Sun Feb 26, 2012 3:29 am

thesmark wrote:I'm kind of in a similar situation (want to land a job in SV), where I'm down to Duke (who gave me $48K) and UCLA (who haven't given me anything yet, but said they will get back to me next week). I've lived my whole life in the Bay Area but have no tech background; if UCLA matches (or even slightly exceeds) Duke's offer, which should I choose? On one hand, UCLA gets many more SV firms for OCI, but on the other hand, I would be competing against a major chunk of my class for Bay Area jobs at UCLA vs. not as much competition at Duke. Also, I like the smaller class sizes and more forgiving grading structure at Duke.


With all due respect, there seems to me to be a couple of things/issues in your post that require more research. First-off, assuming you don't blow the roof off of law school, I don't think it is that easy (possible?) to land an SV job these days with no tech background at all. Second, I know UCLA rocks LA for jobs, but I don't think they are as strong in Northern California.

thesmark
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Re: Big Law Silicon Valley: UT v UCLA v Cornell v UCD

Postby thesmark » Sun Feb 26, 2012 4:32 am

well that depends; what do you call a tech background? Comp Sci UG Degree or what exactly?

Also, of course I realize UCLA isn't anywhere near as strong in Nor Cal as it is in So Cal, but there is a fair network of UCLA people in Nor Cal (at least more than there is for Duke)

r6_philly
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Re: Big Law Silicon Valley: UT v UCLA v Cornell v UCD

Postby r6_philly » Sun Feb 26, 2012 12:40 pm

thesmark wrote:well that depends; what do you call a tech background? Comp Sci UG Degree or what exactly?

Also, of course I realize UCLA isn't anywhere near as strong in Nor Cal as it is in So Cal, but there is a fair network of UCLA people in Nor Cal (at least more than there is for Duke)


EE/CS is hot right now, but theoretically anything that allows you to pass the patent bar and work on patent matters.

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gotmilk?
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Re: Big Law Silicon Valley: UT v UCLA v Cornell v UCD

Postby gotmilk? » Sun Feb 26, 2012 1:28 pm

Re: Duke vs. UCLA, I think this situation is a bit different than UCLA v. UT v. Cornell. I get the impression that Duke is more respected nationwide than the other three schools, and even though not a ton of Duke grads end up in the Bay Area, your ties will be more than sufficient to get you back. UCLA students compete a ton for NorCal, especially since a lot of people from the Bay Area who didn't get into SLS or Berkeley go there. Looking at UCLA's employment outcomes, the vast majority of students stay in LA (and not all by choice, would be my guess). Here's the thing, though: if you choose Duke, you should know that you will have to do a fair amount of extra work come OCI time to get yourself back to the Bay Area, because not a lot of Bay Area firms/Bay Area offices will be at your OCI. This is not too terribly hard, though: you just send every firm/office you're interested in a cover letter/resume, and say you'll be in the Bay Area at the end of summer, and most will probably show an interest if you meet their grade cutoffs. In the end, I think that unless UCLA gives you a bunch more money than Duke, you should take Duke, and just prepare yourself to do some extra work come OCI time. With ties, I think you'll be able to get back just fine, and that it's easier for a Duke grad with ties than a UCLA grad with ties.

jwahba
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Re: Big Law Silicon Valley: UT v UCLA v Cornell v UCD

Postby jwahba » Thu Mar 01, 2012 6:32 pm

Couple of new things. UT offered 9.5k per year and WUSTL threw in 40k (Didn't included them in the calculation until I saw the scholarship message).

Thoughts?

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gotmilk?
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Re: Big Law Silicon Valley: UT v UCLA v Cornell v UCD

Postby gotmilk? » Thu Mar 01, 2012 9:56 pm

jwahba wrote:Couple of new things. UT offered 9.5k per year and WUSTL threw in 40k (Didn't included them in the calculation until I saw the scholarship message).

Thoughts?


Unless you have some serious connections to people in SV law firms, I'm afraid to say that WUSTL just plain won't get you to SV. It's hard enough for WUSTL students to place into Chicago biglaw positions (I've heard this first hand from talking to someone from WUSTL who did get Chicago biglaw), and that's the nearest major market to St. Louis.

Others will say this, but try to use your WUSTL money to get more out of UT and UCLA, and try to use your UT money to get more out of UCLA and Cornell. I think it's a fairly close call between UT/UCLA/Cornell, and scholarships could/should help you make a decision.

jwahba
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Re: Big Law Silicon Valley: UT v UCLA v Cornell v UCD

Postby jwahba » Thu Mar 01, 2012 11:32 pm

I did a little bit of searching on NALP and found 7 silicon valley biglaw firms interviewing in WUSTL. An inherently speculative question, but how high of a rank do you think I would need to be to land a summer job with one of those firms?

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gotmilk?
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Re: Big Law Silicon Valley: UT v UCLA v Cornell v UCD

Postby gotmilk? » Fri Mar 02, 2012 12:54 am

jwahba wrote:I did a little bit of searching on NALP and found 7 silicon valley biglaw firms interviewing in WUSTL. An inherently speculative question, but how high of a rank do you think I would need to be to land a summer job with one of those firms?


Frankly, that number of firms is a bit surprising to me (surprisingly high). I can't speculate on what your rank has to be to get a biglaw job in SV from WUSTL, but I'd guess that you can find stats (or at least fudged stats) on biglaw placement from WUSTL, so that might give you a bit of an idea of what it takes to get biglaw generally. Maybe a WUSTL student can comment on this.

More generally, you might want to take the following into consideration: Regardless of how many firms come to WUSTL (or UT or Cornell, or even UCLA), you're going to want to be mailing resumes to firms come OCI time. If you've got a good rank from a school they're more familiar with, the firm would likely want to bring you in even if they don't come to your OCI. But, realize that SV is an especially hard market to crack. Very few firms have more than 40-50 total attorneys in a SV office, so that means very small summer classes. SV firms will be looking at students from SLS, Boalt, Hastings, Santa Clara, any T14 schools they go to, and any other well-known schools (like UT or UCLA or other T14s they don't go to). Therefore, SV offices of firms can generally afford to be pretty selective. Now there's definitely something to be said for taking a big scholarship to go somewhere, and I'm generally a big advocate of taking scholarship money and going to a lower ranked school (especially as the legal market improves, you don't have to go to a T14 to get biglaw), but I honestly just don't think your chances of going WUSTL -> SV biglaw are that good.

You should also just take a step back and reevaluate your priorities. Is it SV biglaw or bust for you, or would you be okay with working a non-biglaw job in STL or maybe in the Bay Area, as long as you could graduate with little debt. Trust me, you can pay back loans with biglaw (and I personally went somewhere at sticker to go to SV biglaw, and I don't regret it), but if you're not totally sold on at least a few years of biglaw, you really might want to consider whether lower chances at biglaw are worth the flexibility that a large scholarship gives you.

jwahba
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Re: Big Law Silicon Valley: UT v UCLA v Cornell v UCD

Postby jwahba » Fri Mar 02, 2012 12:46 pm

Thanks for the advice (I am holding off anyways until some of my higher ranked apps are responded to). I assume that any from T6 would be good for SV Biglaw?

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gotmilk?
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Re: Big Law Silicon Valley: UT v UCLA v Cornell v UCD

Postby gotmilk? » Fri Mar 02, 2012 1:25 pm

jwahba wrote:Thanks for the advice (I am holding off anyways until some of my higher ranked apps are responded to). I assume that any from T6 would be good for SV Biglaw?


Yes, any T6 will get you SV Biglaw, especially with your ties. I'd guess that any T-14 in front of Cornell would really increase your chances. I'm not an expert on job prospects from these schools, but I'm a bit wary of Cornell's biglaw placement outside of NYC. If you get something like Michigan, I think your choice between these other schools goes out the window.




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