GULC vs. Cornell ...I WANT TO KNOW WHAT YOU KNOW!!!!

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KMaine
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Re: GULC vs. Cornell ...I WANT TO KNOW WHAT YOU KNOW!!!!

Postby KMaine » Sat Feb 25, 2012 11:50 am

msblaw89 wrote:If you did reasonably well your 1l at either GULC or Cornell...how easy would it be to transfer to Duke and upward?


People transfer out pretty easily if they are in the top 25% or so. I guess you hate cold weather or something, but I think transferring to Duke would be risky. I think that you stand a fair chance of hurting your chances at getting a job if you transfer anywhere below t6.

chipchip
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Re: GULC vs. Cornell ...I WANT TO KNOW WHAT YOU KNOW!!!!

Postby chipchip » Sun Feb 26, 2012 12:18 am

If you're in the position of being able to transfer, then there's not much reason to IMO unless you're looking at HYS (maybe just Y or S, really). And even then, if you're in the Top 25% at GULC/Cornell, I would even recommend against transferring if it's just to increase firm job prospects, because you'll probably end up in a worse position vis-a-vis firm interviews as a 2L compared to before. If you're going for academia (and maybe clerking, though that may depend on your ability to get necessary recs and such as it is), then there's more of a reason.

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clarion
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Re: GULC vs. Cornell ...I WANT TO KNOW WHAT YOU KNOW!!!!

Postby clarion » Sun Feb 26, 2012 12:57 pm

chipchip wrote:If you're in the position of being able to transfer, then there's not much reason to IMO unless you're looking at HYS (maybe just Y or S, really). And even then, if you're in the Top 25% at GULC/Cornell, I would even recommend against transferring if it's just to increase firm job prospects, because you'll probably end up in a worse position vis-a-vis firm interviews as a 2L compared to before. If you're going for academia (and maybe clerking, though that may depend on your ability to get necessary recs and such as it is), then there's more of a reason.


Agreed. In what I've read about transferring, if you get any money from the school you originally go to, then you will be giving up that scholarship money to pay sticker (aside from any financial-need grants I'm sure). Additionally, your 1L grades would essentially cease to exist, so if you were doing well enough to place top 25% in GULC or Cornell, I'd have a hard time convincing myself to essentially sacrifice those (clearly) amazing grades to start from scratch somewhere else. I think the general consensus to applying as a transfer to a T14 FROM a T14 is either to try and get your current school to up your scholarship, or, to go to HYS.

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msblaw89
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Re: GULC vs. Cornell ...I WANT TO KNOW WHAT YOU KNOW!!!!

Postby msblaw89 » Sun Feb 26, 2012 4:17 pm

clarion wrote:
chipchip wrote:If you're in the position of being able to transfer, then there's not much reason to IMO unless you're looking at HYS (maybe just Y or S, really). And even then, if you're in the Top 25% at GULC/Cornell, I would even recommend against transferring if it's just to increase firm job prospects, because you'll probably end up in a worse position vis-a-vis firm interviews as a 2L compared to before. If you're going for academia (and maybe clerking, though that may depend on your ability to get necessary recs and such as it is), then there's more of a reason.


Agreed. In what I've read about transferring, if you get any money from the school you originally go to, then you will be giving up that scholarship money to pay sticker (aside from any financial-need grants I'm sure). Additionally, your 1L grades would essentially cease to exist, so if you were doing well enough to place top 25% in GULC or Cornell, I'd have a hard time convincing myself to essentially sacrifice those (clearly) amazing grades to start from scratch somewhere else. I think the general consensus to applying as a transfer to a T14 FROM a T14 is either to try and get your current school to up your scholarship, or, to go to HYS.


Okay, thanks for the advice!

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Re: GULC vs. Cornell ...I WANT TO KNOW WHAT YOU KNOW!!!!

Postby dannyde7 » Mon Feb 27, 2012 2:36 pm

msblaw89 wrote:
clarion wrote:
chipchip wrote:If you're in the position of being able to transfer, then there's not much reason to IMO unless you're looking at HYS (maybe just Y or S, really). And even then, if you're in the Top 25% at GULC/Cornell, I would even recommend against transferring if it's just to increase firm job prospects, because you'll probably end up in a worse position vis-a-vis firm interviews as a 2L compared to before. If you're going for academia (and maybe clerking, though that may depend on your ability to get necessary recs and such as it is), then there's more of a reason.


Agreed. In what I've read about transferring, if you get any money from the school you originally go to, then you will be giving up that scholarship money to pay sticker (aside from any financial-need grants I'm sure). Additionally, your 1L grades would essentially cease to exist, so if you were doing well enough to place top 25% in GULC or Cornell, I'd have a hard time convincing myself to essentially sacrifice those (clearly) amazing grades to start from scratch somewhere else. I think the general consensus to applying as a transfer to a T14 FROM a T14 is either to try and get your current school to up your scholarship, or, to go to HYS.


Okay, thanks for the advice!


I'm making the same decision right now, so this is really helpful. The only thing holding me back from GULC is the 20 screeners vs. 6 screeners thing. I'm wondering if there are any current GULC students who can verify what the average number is.

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Re: GULC vs. Cornell ...I WANT TO KNOW WHAT YOU KNOW!!!!

Postby koalatriste » Mon Feb 27, 2012 2:50 pm

chipchip wrote:If you're in the position of being able to transfer, then there's not much reason to IMO unless you're looking at HYS (maybe just Y or S, really). And even then, if you're in the Top 25% at GULC/Cornell, I would even recommend against transferring if it's just to increase firm job prospects, because you'll probably end up in a worse position vis-a-vis firm interviews as a 2L compared to before. If you're going for academia (and maybe clerking, though that may depend on your ability to get necessary recs and such as it is), then there's more of a reason.


i don't know that this is necessarily true. first of all, why are we even hypothetically discussing transferring? it's not even good to entertain transferring as a remote fantasy when choosing a law school. OP should be making his/her choice based on where OP wants/expects to spend the next three years of his/her life (a lot goes into that decision!).

but, on the point of transferring resulting in a worse position in terms of jobs, i would say that my transfer experience completely rebuts this. I am a Cornell to CN transfer and I had more callbacks from CN OCI than I had scheduled screeners at Cornell's August Job Fair. If nothing else, this afforded me more choice/options in terms of job prospects.

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quiver
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Re: GULC vs. Cornell ...I WANT TO KNOW WHAT YOU KNOW!!!!

Postby quiver » Mon Feb 27, 2012 3:37 pm

koalatriste wrote:
chipchip wrote:If you're in the position of being able to transfer, then there's not much reason to IMO unless you're looking at HYS (maybe just Y or S, really). And even then, if you're in the Top 25% at GULC/Cornell, I would even recommend against transferring if it's just to increase firm job prospects, because you'll probably end up in a worse position vis-a-vis firm interviews as a 2L compared to before. If you're going for academia (and maybe clerking, though that may depend on your ability to get necessary recs and such as it is), then there's more of a reason.


i don't know that this is necessarily true. first of all, why are we even hypothetically discussing transferring? it's not even good to entertain transferring as a remote fantasy when choosing a law school. OP should be making his/her choice based on where OP wants/expects to spend the next three years of his/her life (a lot goes into that decision!).

but, on the point of transferring resulting in a worse position in terms of jobs, i would say that my transfer experience completely rebuts this. I am a Cornell to CN transfer and I had more callbacks from CN OCI than I had scheduled screeners at Cornell's August Job Fair. If nothing else, this afforded me more choice/options in terms of job prospects.
I definitely agree with koalatriste here. I am also a CCN transfer and everyone I know who came from other T14s did great in terms of OCI; most of them commented (like koalatriste) about the increased number of options at the transfer school rather than their 1L school.


With respect to this:
dannyde7 wrote:I'm making the same decision right now, so this is really helpful. The only thing holding me back from GULC is the 20 screeners vs. 6 screeners thing. I'm wondering if there are any current GULC students who can verify what the average number is.
There is not nearly enough info to go on here. Bidding strategy (including the competitiveness of firms as well as which markets) will determine the number of screeners. Without bidding information, that anecdote is useless.

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FlanAl
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Re: GULC vs. Cornell ...I WANT TO KNOW WHAT YOU KNOW!!!!

Postby FlanAl » Mon Feb 27, 2012 4:13 pm

I kinda made this decision last year. If you are gunning for markets other than DC or NYC then really I just think its a feel thing (small school v. big school, small town v. big town etc.) If it is NYC you are gunning for then Cornell is probably better. For DC gtown probably has the edge.

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skers
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Re: GULC vs. Cornell ...I WANT TO KNOW WHAT YOU KNOW!!!!

Postby skers » Mon Feb 27, 2012 4:43 pm

Don't take gtown sticker. If you want NYC big law, that's pretty much cornells thing as a one trick pony.

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Re: GULC vs. Cornell ...I WANT TO KNOW WHAT YOU KNOW!!!!

Postby dannyde7 » Mon Feb 27, 2012 4:50 pm

TemporarySaint wrote:Don't take gtown sticker. If you want NYC big law, that's pretty much cornells thing as a one trick pony.


How are you justifying this? I just went to a Cornell Public Interest event in NYC and met people going to California to be DAs or into JAG.

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Re: GULC vs. Cornell ...I WANT TO KNOW WHAT YOU KNOW!!!!

Postby FlanAl » Mon Feb 27, 2012 5:06 pm

dannyde7 wrote:
TemporarySaint wrote:Don't take gtown sticker. If you want NYC big law, that's pretty much cornells thing as a one trick pony.


How are you justifying this? I just went to a Cornell Public Interest event in NYC and met people going to California to be DAs or into JAG.


At Cornell and I don't know any 1L's other than myself who've even looked into the lrap or considered options outside of NYC biglaw. To be fair I most definitely don't know everyone and I've met a few older students who are going into PI stuff BUT the overwhelming majority want NYC big law.

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skers
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Re: GULC vs. Cornell ...I WANT TO KNOW WHAT YOU KNOW!!!!

Postby skers » Mon Feb 27, 2012 5:09 pm

dannyde7 wrote:
TemporarySaint wrote:Don't take gtown sticker. If you want NYC big law, that's pretty much cornells thing as a one trick pony.


How are you justifying this? I just went to a Cornell Public Interest event in NYC and met people going to California to be DAs or into JAG.


Whoa bro, a DA in California? That changes everything. Cornell has never been strong in PI, gov, or clerkship placement. It is a great school for nabbing NYC big law, if that's what one wants.

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Re: GULC vs. Cornell ...I WANT TO KNOW WHAT YOU KNOW!!!!

Postby dannyde7 » Mon Feb 27, 2012 5:11 pm

FlanAl wrote:
dannyde7 wrote:
TemporarySaint wrote:Don't take gtown sticker. If you want NYC big law, that's pretty much cornells thing as a one trick pony.


How are you justifying this? I just went to a Cornell Public Interest event in NYC and met people going to California to be DAs or into JAG.


At Cornell and I don't know any 1L's other than myself who've even looked into the lrap or considered options outside of NYC biglaw. To be fair I most definitely don't know everyone and I've met a few older students who are going into PI stuff BUT the overwhelming majority want NYC big law.


So is this preference mostly self-selection or is it a lack of other programs? I'm very undecided about Big Law (leaning against it), although I expect to attend GULC or Cornell at sticker and may need it to pay back loans.

Would also love to get a sense of the competition at Cornell, level of difficulty in getting into a respectable journal, and QOL in Ithaca.

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skers
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Re: GULC vs. Cornell ...I WANT TO KNOW WHAT YOU KNOW!!!!

Postby skers » Mon Feb 27, 2012 5:14 pm

Danny. Didn't you nab Duke?

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Re: GULC vs. Cornell ...I WANT TO KNOW WHAT YOU KNOW!!!!

Postby dannyde7 » Mon Feb 27, 2012 5:17 pm

TemporarySaint wrote:
dannyde7 wrote:
TemporarySaint wrote:Don't take gtown sticker. If you want NYC big law, that's pretty much cornells thing as a one trick pony.


How are you justifying this? I just went to a Cornell Public Interest event in NYC and met people going to California to be DAs or into JAG.


Whoa bro, a DA in California? That changes everything. Cornell has never been strong in PI, gov, or clerkship placement. It is a great school for nabbing NYC big law, if that's what one wants.


I know that Cornell has the NYC BigLaw reputation, but I was hoping there might be someone on this board who is close to the school who knows what the placement is like right now, how the school is predicting placement in the future, and whether or not the school is making an effort to diversify its types of placement.

And yes, I know that citing ONE DA in CA doesn't stand to disprove the generalization of Cornell as a NYC BigLaw placement school, but it is still evidence that people do other things than sign up to spend their lives in white collar indentured servitude.

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Re: GULC vs. Cornell ...I WANT TO KNOW WHAT YOU KNOW!!!!

Postby dannyde7 » Mon Feb 27, 2012 5:19 pm

TemporarySaint wrote:Danny. Didn't you nab Duke?


I did last year, and chose to reapply this year for personal reasons. Waiting to hear back from them but who knows if they'll retake me after withdrawing.

How do you remember that, btw?

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skers
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Re: GULC vs. Cornell ...I WANT TO KNOW WHAT YOU KNOW!!!!

Postby skers » Mon Feb 27, 2012 5:30 pm

dannyde7 wrote:
TemporarySaint wrote:Danny. Didn't you nab Duke?


I did last year, and chose to reapply this year for personal reasons. Waiting to hear back from them but who knows if they'll retake me after withdrawing.

How do you remember that, btw?


Post history, bro. I'd take gulc for PI.

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Re: GULC vs. Cornell ...I WANT TO KNOW WHAT YOU KNOW!!!!

Postby dannyde7 » Mon Feb 27, 2012 5:38 pm

TemporarySaint wrote:
dannyde7 wrote:
TemporarySaint wrote:Danny. Didn't you nab Duke?


I did last year, and chose to reapply this year for personal reasons. Waiting to hear back from them but who knows if they'll retake me after withdrawing.

How do you remember that, btw?


Post history, bro. I'd take gulc for PI.


No, I know I posted those things. I'm just surprised someone on this board would recall something I posted over a year ago and remember my cycle.

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skers
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Re: GULC vs. Cornell ...I WANT TO KNOW WHAT YOU KNOW!!!!

Postby skers » Mon Feb 27, 2012 5:41 pm

As in I looked through your post history just now. Come on dude.

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FlanAl
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Re: GULC vs. Cornell ...I WANT TO KNOW WHAT YOU KNOW!!!!

Postby FlanAl » Mon Feb 27, 2012 5:44 pm

I'm not quite sure about placement for PI yet. One thing to consider is being able to do clinic stuff in DC at places where you might actually want to work post law school. I don't think any school places poorly into PI. Its not like your average DA is going to say "well we're not hiring that cornell guy, that school's only good for big law".

Cornell also has tons of clinics. You're also in a small town so if you do something like work at the city attorney you might get way more substantial experience than say working for the SEC during the year (but I really don't know).

Small class size with the majority of it being interested in big law means that PI people have a lot of resources and can get a lot of attention if they want it.

I think the huge difference between the two is the LRAPs. GULC's is plugged into IBR and you pay next to nothing. BUT your loans basically don't get paid off and you have to rely on the forgiveness after 10yrs (I don't even think the interest gets paid down under GULC's plan). Cornell's has you on a 10 year repayment plan but it actually pays down your loans, so if you are done with PI after 5 years you'll have paid off half your loans. You end up paying a lot more per month w/Cornell's but you aren't forced to stay PI for 10 years if you don't want to.

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Re: GULC vs. Cornell ...I WANT TO KNOW WHAT YOU KNOW!!!!

Postby dannyde7 » Mon Feb 27, 2012 5:52 pm

TemporarySaint wrote:As in I looked through your post history just now. Come on dude.


Touche. You must be slacking off at work as much as I am at the moment.

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msblaw89
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Re: GULC vs. Cornell ...I WANT TO KNOW WHAT YOU KNOW!!!!

Postby msblaw89 » Mon Feb 27, 2012 6:18 pm

FlanAl wrote:I kinda made this decision last year. If you are gunning for markets other than DC or NYC then really I just think its a feel thing (small school v. big school, small town v. big town etc.) If it is NYC you are gunning for then Cornell is probably better. For DC gtown probably has the edge.


I do want biglaw ( at least initially) but I don't know that I want to stay in NYC. My fiance has a very good technical sales engineering job and he wouldn't be able to transfer into NYC...at least with the current employer. I don't want to hinder my fiance's career (or mine) so unless I make SERIOUS bank at an NYC firm... I think I will have to travel to a city that works for both of us. That is why I am wondering what school will take me the farthest...geographically

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KMaine
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Re: GULC vs. Cornell ...I WANT TO KNOW WHAT YOU KNOW!!!!

Postby KMaine » Mon Feb 27, 2012 6:55 pm

msblaw89 wrote:
FlanAl wrote:I kinda made this decision last year. If you are gunning for markets other than DC or NYC then really I just think its a feel thing (small school v. big school, small town v. big town etc.) If it is NYC you are gunning for then Cornell is probably better. For DC gtown probably has the edge.


I do want biglaw ( at least initially) but I don't know that I want to stay in NYC. My fiance has a very good technical sales engineering job and he wouldn't be able to transfer into NYC...at least with the current employer. I don't want to hinder my fiance's career (or mine) so unless I make SERIOUS bank at an NYC firm... I think I will have to travel to a city that works for both of us. That is why I am wondering what school will take me the farthest...geographically


Not sure if you mean initially or after a few years in NYC (because of the "making serious bank" comment -- you would make 160K + bonus in NYC). I think they would take you equally far. Ties to a market would help from either school (and be a virtual necessity in some markets)

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FlanAl
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Re: GULC vs. Cornell ...I WANT TO KNOW WHAT YOU KNOW!!!!

Postby FlanAl » Mon Feb 27, 2012 11:40 pm

with fiancé in the mix, especially one who has to be locked into a city that isn't NYC, I'd say go to georgetown. DC is easy to get to and it will probably be more fun when they visit It's super easy to get from Ithaca to NYC but I feel like its not that easy to get anywhere else (It's a huge pain in the ass from california). And not to pry but why wasn't having a fiancé in the OP? You want to have that kind of support as close as possible.

I'd assume you'd want to spend as much time together even while you're in law school. If all you want is non-NYC big law then really you should talk to attorneys in your market and get their opinion.

If its FLA big law you want then you should contact alums from both schools immediately and get a feel for which one would give you the best opportunities AND get your network started.

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msblaw89
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Re: GULC vs. Cornell ...I WANT TO KNOW WHAT YOU KNOW!!!!

Postby msblaw89 » Tue Feb 28, 2012 2:39 pm

FlanAl wrote:with fiancé in the mix, especially one who has to be locked into a city that isn't NYC, I'd say go to georgetown. DC is easy to get to and it will probably be more fun when they visit It's super easy to get from Ithaca to NYC but I feel like its not that easy to get anywhere else (It's a huge pain in the ass from california). And not to pry but why wasn't having a fiancé in the OP? You want to have that kind of support as close as possible.

I'd assume you'd want to spend as much time together even while you're in law school. If all you want is non-NYC big law then really you should talk to attorneys in your market and get their opinion.

If its FLA big law you want then you should contact alums from both schools immediately and get a feel for which one would give you the best opportunities AND get your network started.


I didn't put it in the original post because while I do want to be near my fiance if possible, I don't want it to be the main reason why I chose a school. I want to go to the best school possible without letting emotions get in the way....but it is obviously extremely hard. I know that my fiance cannot get into NYC in the future( again assuming same employer), but where my fiance will be in three years is hard to tell. That's why I not only want to go to the best school, but the one with the most mobility.




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