Wake vs. William and Mary

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )

Wake or W&M

Wake (51k)
7
33%
William and Mary (58k)
14
67%
 
Total votes: 21

TopSider11
Posts: 44
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2011 2:40 pm

Wake vs. William and Mary

Postby TopSider11 » Thu Feb 23, 2012 2:40 pm

Living costs are roughly the same so Im just looking at cost of tuition. Wake will be about 51k and William and Mary will be about 58k. William and Mary has 2 qualifications on my scholarship, I need to maintain a B average and I have to work 8-10 hours as part of my "graduate fellowship". Not sure where I want to ultimately practice but know I want either big law or to work "of counsel" for a corporation. Mobility is really high on my list although I know neither has sensational mobility. I keep going over the information and although W&M is ranked higher it seems like maybe Wake is more successful for big law placement and placing students outside of their immediate region. It also doesnt help I have an unhealthy love for Wake as I almost attended there for undergrad but maybe the financial choice to attend another school. Any advice would be really helpful, thanks.

rad lulz
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Re: Wake vs. William and Mary

Postby rad lulz » Thu Feb 23, 2012 10:38 pm

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Last edited by rad lulz on Mon Apr 22, 2013 1:01 am, edited 1 time in total.

TopSider11
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Re: Wake vs. William and Mary

Postby TopSider11 » Fri Feb 24, 2012 2:19 pm

rad lulz wrote:If you're committed to those career goals, you need to retake the LSAT and reapply.


If this was fiscally possible I would agree 100%

rad lulz
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Re: Wake vs. William and Mary

Postby rad lulz » Fri Feb 24, 2012 2:29 pm

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Last edited by rad lulz on Mon Apr 22, 2013 1:01 am, edited 1 time in total.

TopSider11
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Re: Wake vs. William and Mary

Postby TopSider11 » Fri Feb 24, 2012 7:48 pm

rad lulz wrote:You could always get a job and sit out a year, but assuming you're not biglaw or bust, where are you from, and where do you have strong personal or professional ties?


From Cleveland, already clerked at two NLJ 250 firms (basically filing, scheduling, etc) and wouldn't hate coming back to the area however Im not too fond of any of the Ohio schools including OSU even though I got in with a half tuition scholly. I know conventional wisdom says I should attend but I guess I'm being difficult and pushing that aside. Im more interested in opinions between william and mary and wake forest as schools though if you're familiar with either thatd be extremely helpful

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sunynp
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Re: Wake vs. William and Mary

Postby sunynp » Fri Feb 24, 2012 7:57 pm

I think you should avoid the scholarship with stipulations. Those stipulations are enough for you to not take William and Mary. I also think that you should add in the cost of living. You need to know the total that you are paying and how much debt you will end up with.

I think you need a little more focus about where you want to live. I wish you could take another year to figure this out.

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JustE
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Re: Wake vs. William and Mary

Postby JustE » Fri Feb 24, 2012 8:05 pm

I was in your situation this time last year, choosing between W&M and Notre Dame. I was extremely against waiting a year, hated my job, and went as far as depositing at ND. Thanks to this website, I chose to re-take the LSAT and re-apply. I broke into the T6 and landed my top choice. I'm the first to tell you my situation is unique (I'm a URM with solid work experience and a unique story), but there are several people who have put in the time and reapplied successfully.

After hearing your goals, I would advise you not to attend either of the schools. If you want real portability, you need to be at a T-14 or at the very top of your class at a lower ranked school. I'm from NC and know Wake has a great reputation in the state, but it is going to be extremely difficult to leave the state with that degree. With that said, you're going to have your hands full trying to gain employment in NC when you consider all of the other solid programs in the state. W&M has more of a national name, but you're still not going to easily take that degree outside of the region.

If you want mobility, sit out a year and reapply next year. I can assure you from personal experience that you will be glad you did. If you are comfortable settling down close to those schools or rolling the dice and attempting to make the degree portable (by breaking into the top 5-10% of your class) more power to you. Just be careful with those stipulations. There's a reason you won't see them at the higher ranked schools. They are designed to entice students to enroll, knowing that a significant portion of the class will not keep them.

If you're interested in it, here's my decision process from a year ago: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=153486 . PM me if you have any questions, bud.

Good luck.

E

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Gail
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Re: Wake vs. William and Mary

Postby Gail » Fri Feb 24, 2012 9:02 pm

Fwiw, there's really only one other program that you'll be competing against in NC. Most Duke students leave and UNC is most of your competition.


And I'm sympathetic to the urgency. It is not as easy as being able to just always go find work somewhere else. As if jobs are falling off of trees for new graduates.


JustE has provided some very valuable points though. I'd just caution to say, he already had a job. Big difference between hating your job and not having one.

Also, to go from 162 to 166, imo, is a hell of a lot easier than 166/167 to 170. This is coming from someone who scored a 166.

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JustE
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Re: Wake vs. William and Mary

Postby JustE » Fri Feb 24, 2012 9:31 pm

Gail wrote:Also, to go from 162 to 166, imo, is a hell of a lot easier than 166/167 to 170. This is coming from someone who scored a 166.


Eh, maybe. For what it's worth, I choked on test day and I'm pretty confident I would have hit 170 with another month or at least a full night's rest. If he/she wants a 170+, they can do it if they put in the time/work. I agree with everything else, though. It's February, so I'm sure you can find somewhere to work before August...

rad lulz
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Re: Wake vs. William and Mary

Postby rad lulz » Fri Feb 24, 2012 9:31 pm

TopSider11 wrote:
rad lulz wrote:You could always get a job and sit out a year, but assuming you're not biglaw or bust, where are you from, and where do you have strong personal or professional ties?


From Cleveland, already clerked at two NLJ 250 firms (basically filing, scheduling, etc) and wouldn't hate coming back to the area however Im not too fond of any of the Ohio schools including OSU even though I got in with a half tuition scholly. I know conventional wisdom says I should attend but I guess I'm being difficult and pushing that aside. Im more interested in opinions between william and mary and wake forest as schools though if you're familiar with either thatd be extremely helpful

Just go to W&M because it's cheaper and has no scholarship stips then.

Hope you like non-DC VA, because if you get a job, that's in all likelihood where it will be, and in all likelihood it will not be biglaw.

Also most big corps hire into their in-house legal from biglaw, so there's that too. Good luck.

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Gail
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Re: Wake vs. William and Mary

Postby Gail » Fri Feb 24, 2012 9:42 pm

op, you'll get a job from either one (75% chance of that). It just probably won't be a very high paying job. If your debt is minimal, then you'll be fine, as long as you realize and are OK with not being in biglaw.


If models and bottles are your goals, you need to retake and reapply. If not. Go with God.

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JustE
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Re: Wake vs. William and Mary

Postby JustE » Fri Feb 24, 2012 9:49 pm

Gail wrote:op, you'll get a job from either one (75% chance of that). It just probably won't be a very high paying job. If your debt is minimal, then you'll be fine, as long as you realize and are OK with not being in biglaw.


If models and bottles are your goals, you need to retake and reapply. If not. Go with God.


+1 Good luck!

.375 H&H Mag.
Posts: 34
Joined: Wed Jan 18, 2012 12:13 am

Re: Wake vs. William and Mary

Postby .375 H&H Mag. » Fri Feb 24, 2012 10:30 pm

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Last edited by .375 H&H Mag. on Wed Jun 27, 2012 10:45 am, edited 1 time in total.

TopSider11
Posts: 44
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2011 2:40 pm

Re: Wake vs. William and Mary

Postby TopSider11 » Sat Feb 25, 2012 3:11 pm

JustE wrote:I was in your situation this time last year, choosing between W&M and Notre Dame. I was extremely against waiting a year, hated my job, and went as far as depositing at ND. Thanks to this website, I chose to re-take the LSAT and re-apply. I broke into the T6 and landed my top choice. I'm the first to tell you my situation is unique (I'm a URM with solid work experience and a unique story), but there are several people who have put in the time and reapplied successfully.

After hearing your goals, I would advise you not to attend either of the schools. If you want real portability, you need to be at a T-14 or at the very top of your class at a lower ranked school. I'm from NC and know Wake has a great reputation in the state, but it is going to be extremely difficult to leave the state with that degree. With that said, you're going to have your hands full trying to gain employment in NC when you consider all of the other solid programs in the state. W&M has more of a national name, but you're still not going to easily take that degree outside of the region.

If you want mobility, sit out a year and reapply next year. I can assure you from personal experience that you will be glad you did. If you are comfortable settling down close to those schools or rolling the dice and attempting to make the degree portable (by breaking into the top 5-10% of your class) more power to you. Just be careful with those stipulations. There's a reason you won't see them at the higher ranked schools. They are designed to entice students to enroll, knowing that a significant portion of the class will not keep them.

If you're interested in it, here's my decision process from a year ago: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=153486 . PM me if you have any questions, bud.

Good luck.

E


Your story is great and sounds amazing but I dont see a way for me to sit out a year and make it worth while. I understand where you are coming from I just truly believe this isnt the path for me. I also think you're right to be wary of the stipulations, they worry me a lot and that has a lot to do with why I decided to post asking for guidance.

Gail wrote:op, you'll get a job from either one (75% chance of that). It just probably won't be a very high paying job. If your debt is minimal, then you'll be fine, as long as you realize and are OK with not being in biglaw.


If models and bottles are your goals, you need to retake and reapply. If not. Go with God.


Since living costs are taken care of and the only debt Im incurring would be tuition isnt under 60k debt a good place to start even if I'm not making 6 figures? In my mind 60k is probably right around what most people graduate with in undergrad debt

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Gail
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Re: Wake vs. William and Mary

Postby Gail » Sat Feb 25, 2012 3:17 pm

TopSider11 wrote:
Since living costs are taken care of and the only debt Im incurring would be tuition isnt under 60k debt a good place to start even if I'm not making 6 figures? In my mind 60k is probably right around what most people graduate with in undergrad debt


If that's your situation I think it's a good situation to be in and I would probably go.


60k in debt with 32k after tax dollars is a fine spot to be in (in NC 45k should net you 32,695 or so after tax). You'll be able to pay back your debts in 10 years with more than 10% of your income left for savings. I think that's as fiscally sound as normal people in this generation are ever going to be.

TopSider11
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Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2011 2:40 pm

Re: Wake vs. William and Mary

Postby TopSider11 » Sun Feb 26, 2012 3:28 pm

Gail wrote:
TopSider11 wrote:
Since living costs are taken care of and the only debt Im incurring would be tuition isnt under 60k debt a good place to start even if I'm not making 6 figures? In my mind 60k is probably right around what most people graduate with in undergrad debt


If that's your situation I think it's a good situation to be in and I would probably go.


60k in debt with 32k after tax dollars is a fine spot to be in (in NC 45k should net you 32,695 or so after tax). You'll be able to pay back your debts in 10 years with more than 10% of your income left for savings. I think that's as fiscally sound as normal people in this generation are ever going to be.



I like the emphasis on "this generation" but I agree. Thanks for the support makes me feel better about my logic




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