Initial Pick?

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )

Which law school?

UIUC
14
28%
George Mason
19
38%
Cardozo
17
34%
 
Total votes: 50

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fltanglab
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Initial Pick?

Postby fltanglab » Thu Feb 23, 2012 4:35 am

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Last edited by fltanglab on Wed Nov 27, 2013 11:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

allamerican73
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Re: Initial Pick?

Postby allamerican73 » Thu Feb 23, 2012 10:13 am

While Illinois is arguably "better" than the other two choices (and a Big Ten college town is a great place to spend three years for law school IMO), I wouldn't recommend attending if you have not lived in the Midwest or contemplated relocating there after law school--you may have a hard time cracking the NY/DC market in this economy if you're not at the top of your class. Perhaps other posters can comment on George Mason's prospects in the DC market.

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Doorkeeper
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Re: Initial Pick?

Postby Doorkeeper » Thu Feb 23, 2012 10:48 am

Your options right now are very sub-optimal for what you want to do. I would push to get off the WL at Fordham and/or GW, and if not retake and wait a year. None of these schools place well into NY or DC.

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fltanglab
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Re: Initial Pick?

Postby fltanglab » Thu Feb 23, 2012 1:51 pm

allamerican73 wrote:While Illinois is arguably "better" than the other two choices (and a Big Ten college town is a great place to spend three years for law school IMO), I wouldn't recommend attending if you have not lived in the Midwest or contemplated relocating there after law school--you may have a hard time cracking the NY/DC market in this economy if you're not at the top of your class. Perhaps other posters can comment on George Mason's prospects in the DC market.


I live in the midwest right now and attend Michigan. But my parents really don't want me staying out here and I probably shouldn't given their future dependence on my help/youth.

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fltanglab
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Re: Initial Pick?

Postby fltanglab » Thu Feb 23, 2012 1:56 pm

Doorkeeper wrote:Your options right now are very sub-optimal for what you want to do. I would push to get off the WL at Fordham and/or GW, and if not retake and wait a year. None of these schools place well into NY or DC.


Yeah, I am well aware that my choices aren't stellar. I don't have the option of waiting a year because I cannot secure a job with the degrees I have and I would feel bad doing nothing at home. I've personally considered doing a grad program, but my parents don't support me and without them I cannot fund my education. I've been pushing pretty hard for both of those schools, so we'll see. I visit both of them within the next week.

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thexfactor
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Re: Initial Pick?

Postby thexfactor » Thu Feb 23, 2012 3:43 pm

fltanglab wrote:Currently, of the schools to which I've been accepted, I'm looking at three seriously.

I would like to do IP litigation (copyright, not patent) in DC after graduation. I'm from the DC area and have lived there all my life with the exception of during undergrad. Of my waitlisted schools, I'm looking seriously at BU, GW, and Fordham, but I obviously can't make a decision on those until I get an offer.

I would also not mind working in NYC after graduation if that gives me more job opportunities (it's close enough by train to my family). And I would prefer maximizing my BigLaw chances.

I have no significant other to worry about, will have no debt. I'm trying to use my upcoming visits to schools to help make a decision, but I thought I'd ask TLS at large before "feel" of the school becomes a factor.

Thanks in advance!


Have you thought about retaking? 3 more pts on the LSAT would go a long ways in you getting a biglaw job. 3 more pts prob means UVA ED next cycle.

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Mr. Somebody
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Re: Initial Pick?

Postby Mr. Somebody » Thu Feb 23, 2012 3:47 pm

fltanglab wrote:Currently, of the schools to which I've been accepted, I'm looking at three seriously.

I would like to do IP litigation (copyright, not patent) in DC after graduation. I'm from the DC area and have lived there all my life with the exception of during undergrad. Of my waitlisted schools, I'm looking seriously at BU, GW, and Fordham, but I obviously can't make a decision on those until I get an offer.

I would also not mind working in NYC after graduation if that gives me more job opportunities (it's close enough by train to my family). And I would prefer maximizing my BigLaw chances.

I have no significant other to worry about, will have no debt. I'm trying to use my upcoming visits to schools to help make a decision, but I thought I'd ask TLS at large before "feel" of the school becomes a factor.

Thanks in advance!


Meaning no UG debt, or you are gettin scholly at these schools? If the latter, cardozo I guess. None are good for biglaw. Your #'s give you outside shot at Fordham, which is your best bet if no retake. But why can't you find a job right now with your degrees?

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fltanglab
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Re: Initial Pick?

Postby fltanglab » Thu Feb 23, 2012 6:06 pm

thexfactor wrote:
fltanglab wrote:Currently, of the schools to which I've been accepted, I'm looking at three seriously.

I would like to do IP litigation (copyright, not patent) in DC after graduation. I'm from the DC area and have lived there all my life with the exception of during undergrad. Of my waitlisted schools, I'm looking seriously at BU, GW, and Fordham, but I obviously can't make a decision on those until I get an offer.

I would also not mind working in NYC after graduation if that gives me more job opportunities (it's close enough by train to my family). And I would prefer maximizing my BigLaw chances.

I have no significant other to worry about, will have no debt. I'm trying to use my upcoming visits to schools to help make a decision, but I thought I'd ask TLS at large before "feel" of the school becomes a factor.

Thanks in advance!


Have you thought about retaking? 3 more pts on the LSAT would go a long ways in you getting a biglaw job. 3 more pts prob means UVA ED next cycle.


I've already retaken once (with a 10 point jump) and I don't have time right now to study for the LSAT.

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fltanglab
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Re: Initial Pick?

Postby fltanglab » Thu Feb 23, 2012 6:11 pm

Mr. Somebody wrote:
fltanglab wrote:Currently, of the schools to which I've been accepted, I'm looking at three seriously.

I would like to do IP litigation (copyright, not patent) in DC after graduation. I'm from the DC area and have lived there all my life with the exception of during undergrad. Of my waitlisted schools, I'm looking seriously at BU, GW, and Fordham, but I obviously can't make a decision on those until I get an offer.

I would also not mind working in NYC after graduation if that gives me more job opportunities (it's close enough by train to my family). And I would prefer maximizing my BigLaw chances.

I have no significant other to worry about, will have no debt. I'm trying to use my upcoming visits to schools to help make a decision, but I thought I'd ask TLS at large before "feel" of the school becomes a factor.

Thanks in advance!


Meaning no UG debt, or you are gettin scholly at these schools? If the latter, cardozo I guess. None are good for biglaw. Your #'s give you outside shot at Fordham, which is your best bet if no retake. But why can't you find a job right now with your degrees?


No UG debt, parents paying for law school also. I have scholarships from UIUC and Cardozo, but they don't really matter to me since I won't have debt anyway. I'll graduate with degrees in biopsych and English, which means I have to do grad school to secure a job. Biopsych = research and English I have never really considered a useful degree (just did it for fun and because I'm good at it).

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mattviphky
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Re: Initial Pick?

Postby mattviphky » Thu Feb 23, 2012 6:15 pm

if you're still in UG, I would recommend waiting and retaking like in October. It doesn't seem like you need to really "learn" the lsat, since you got a 167, so you could probably work and maintain a reasonable study schedule. If you are THAT against taking a year off, then I don't know.

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fltanglab
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Re: Initial Pick?

Postby fltanglab » Wed Feb 29, 2012 11:16 pm

I'm not sure how to change the poll, but I'd like to add WUSTL to the list since I was just accepted there.

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romothesavior
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Re: Initial Pick?

Postby romothesavior » Thu Mar 01, 2012 1:01 am

Need to know how much these cost before anyone can really give you advice.

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fltanglab
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Re: Initial Pick?

Postby fltanglab » Thu Mar 01, 2012 1:19 am

romothesavior wrote:Need to know how much these cost before anyone can really give you advice.


Money is not an issue nor even a factor for me. My parents are paying for everything. So assume I essentially have a full ride to all of them.

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romothesavior
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Re: Initial Pick?

Postby romothesavior » Thu Mar 01, 2012 1:28 am

fltanglab wrote:
romothesavior wrote:Need to know how much these cost before anyone can really give you advice.


Money is not an issue nor even a factor for me. My parents are paying for everything. So assume I essentially have a full ride to all of them.

Do you value your parent's money at all, or are they just so rich that $200,000 means nothing to them?

If you do value and appreciate their money, I'd hope you would at least try to minimize their cost and maximize their investment. So it is relevant. If it is the latter, then I guess it's not.

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fltanglab
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Re: Initial Pick?

Postby fltanglab » Thu Mar 01, 2012 1:31 am

romothesavior wrote:
fltanglab wrote:
romothesavior wrote:Need to know how much these cost before anyone can really give you advice.


Money is not an issue nor even a factor for me. My parents are paying for everything. So assume I essentially have a full ride to all of them.

Do you value your parent's money at all, or are they just so rich that $200,000 means nothing to them?

If you do value and appreciate their money, I'd hope you would at least try to minimize their cost and maximize their investment. So it is relevant. If it is the latter, then I guess it's not.


My parents worked really hard to get to where they are. It's not that $200,000 means nothing to them, it's more that I mean everything to them being an only child and they're willing to invest in my future. It's just up to me to figure out how to best use that investment.

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romothesavior
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Re: Initial Pick?

Postby romothesavior » Thu Mar 01, 2012 1:34 am

fltanglab wrote:My parents worked really hard to get to where they are. It's not that $200,000 means nothing to them, it's more that I mean everything to them being an only child and they're willing to invest in my future. It's just up to me to figure out how to best use that investment.

I wasn't trying to disparage you or your parents. I just know that if my parents were making this kind of investment, I'd try to keep the cost low so as to not abuse their generosity, so I figured it was relevant in the equation. If the money is really not a factor though, then you should go pretty much wherever you feel is the best fit and gives you the best shot at D.C. biglaw. Right now probably George Mason, maybe WUSTL (we have a solid D.C. clinic program). If you get into GW, I'd go there.

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fltanglab
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Re: Initial Pick?

Postby fltanglab » Thu Mar 01, 2012 1:44 am

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Last edited by fltanglab on Wed Nov 27, 2013 11:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Tom Joad
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Re: Initial Pick?

Postby Tom Joad » Thu Mar 01, 2012 2:49 am

Retake. I am coming from the same perspective as my parents will at least give me no interest loans to go to school. At this point you need to really thing about your "family's interest" and not just your own. I understand your parents are probably pushing you to go to law school, right away, but they are your parents and you really should be able to talk to them as adults at this age.

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fltanglab
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Re: Initial Pick?

Postby fltanglab » Thu Mar 01, 2012 2:35 pm

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Last edited by fltanglab on Wed Nov 27, 2013 11:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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stillwater
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Re: Initial Pick?

Postby stillwater » Thu Mar 01, 2012 2:50 pm

fltanglab wrote:
Tom Joad wrote:Retake. I am coming from the same perspective as my parents will at least give me no interest loans to go to school. At this point you need to really thing about your "family's interest" and not just your own. I understand your parents are probably pushing you to go to law school, right away, but they are your parents and you really should be able to talk to them as adults at this age.


They're not interested in having me stay at home for a year and do nothing, which is where I would be since I can't find a job...and the first part and second parts of what you said seem to contradict each other. Unless you mean my future family, which honestly I don't even know I'll have at this point.


Is the choice really that stark: law school or nothing? I would imagine with enough diligence you would be able to find something to do. If completely opposed, I would work to get off that GW waitlist and try to put yourself in the best position to succeed given your market preference and that you are not debt averse. While WUSTL and UIUC are good options, GM may provide better access to DC for your purposes (though I don't have the numbers to back that up).

SpoonForkSpork
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Re: Initial Pick?

Postby SpoonForkSpork » Thu Mar 01, 2012 3:16 pm

fltanglab wrote:
Tom Joad wrote:Retake. I am coming from the same perspective as my parents will at least give me no interest loans to go to school. At this point you need to really thing about your "family's interest" and not just your own. I understand your parents are probably pushing you to go to law school, right away, but they are your parents and you really should be able to talk to them as adults at this age.


...and the first part and second parts of what you said seem to contradict each other. Unless you mean my future family, which honestly I don't even know I'll have at this point.

I believe "family interest" here refers to the 200k they'll be putting towards your education. You should be looking to make good returns on such a sacrifice, even if that means "feeling bad" for a bit because you don't have a job lined up just yet and might have to retake/reapply. I'm in a similar situation, financially, and am almost positive that my parents would prefer that I sit out a year than blow a bunch of money on a degree from a school that might not provide the best opportunities possible.

03121202698008
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Re: Initial Pick?

Postby 03121202698008 » Thu Mar 01, 2012 3:33 pm

DC is a very tough market even for top students from top schools. It is way beyond saturated. None of those schools, especially GM, are going to realistically get you a job there. Even with no debt, you have to be able to find a job. Take some of your parents money, buy the Powerscore bibles, and retake. Even if your parents say $ shouldn't be a deciding factor...the ability to practice after has to be.

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Tom Joad
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Re: Initial Pick?

Postby Tom Joad » Thu Mar 01, 2012 4:48 pm

SpoonForkSpork wrote:
fltanglab wrote:
Tom Joad wrote:Retake. I am coming from the same perspective as my parents will at least give me no interest loans to go to school. At this point you need to really thing about your "family's interest" and not just your own. I understand your parents are probably pushing you to go to law school, right away, but they are your parents and you really should be able to talk to them as adults at this age.


...and the first part and second parts of what you said seem to contradict each other. Unless you mean my future family, which honestly I don't even know I'll have at this point.

I believe "family interest" here refers to the 200k they'll be putting towards your education. You should be looking to make good returns on such a sacrifice, even if that means "feeling bad" for a bit because you don't have a job lined up just yet and might have to retake/reapply. I'm in a similar situation, financially, and am almost positive that my parents would prefer that I sit out a year than blow a bunch of money on a degree from a school that might not provide the best opportunities possible.

You got what I am saying. Even if you can't find a job (which is probably BS because McDonalds is always hiring) you are an adult and should be able to convince your parents that retaking and reapplying is the right way to go.

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DaftAndDirect
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Re: Initial Pick?

Postby DaftAndDirect » Thu Mar 01, 2012 5:04 pm

OP you should take a look at this thread:

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=179084&hilit=least+lsat+times

Particularly this quote:

"Regarding the issue with the parents, if they won't let you stay in their house while you study for a test that could save you tens upon thousands of dollars, then you are dealing with some irrational actors and it's really no fault of your own. If your parents will LITERALLY make you homeless if you do not attend law school this very year, not much you can do. Otherwise, do as the other poster did, and just fight with them on it and try to explain how retaking has a significant impact upon whether or not you will live under a mountain of debt for the rest of your life."

The interesting thing about being a law school candidate is that it presents you with a situation where 3 months hard and dedicated study could result in a financial swing of hundreds of thousands of dollars (both in scholarship money and in expected value of career prospects). From a dollars-per-hour perspective, 3 months hard study has the potential to give you an amazing return on a relatively small investment of your time, a return that is probably better than choosing to just go to law school now. You won't be "doing nothing" if you re-apply next cycle - you'll be studying your ass off for the LSAT and hopefully working a part time job at a Starbucks or something.

Edited: I realize debt is not an issue for you. Without at least one attempt at a re-take though, you increase the chances that your parents will be wasting their money.

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fltanglab
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Re: Initial Pick?

Postby fltanglab » Thu Mar 01, 2012 5:11 pm

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Last edited by fltanglab on Wed Nov 27, 2013 11:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.




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