UF vs. Stetson ($$)

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Paul Campos
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Re: UF vs. Stetson ($$)

Postby Paul Campos » Wed Feb 22, 2012 3:03 pm

--LinkRemoved--

15% of the 2010 class didn't have a job nine months out, and another five percent were in short-term law-school funded jobs (i.e., unemployed in all but name). So that's nearly 20% of the class without a job of any kind, let alone an actual law job.

josh43299
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Re: UF vs. Stetson ($$)

Postby josh43299 » Wed Feb 22, 2012 3:08 pm

Nelson wrote:
benburns214 wrote:
Nelson wrote:Retaking to the 170s, which is what most people need to crack the T14 assuming not awful grades, is much easier than trying to get a job out of UF or Stetson.

Hahahahahaha!!!!!! talk out of your ass much? Stetson maybe.... but not UF

Considering you get three chances and basically unlimited prep time to retake the LSAT, I'd retake, yeah. LST has only 46% of UF's class reporting salary for C/O 2009 with 13% reporting unemployment. You think the FL economy has improved since then? Paying six figures for UF is a terrible idea.


At minimum, retaking, getting a good score, and coming out of law school in good financial shape from a good school is easier than getting in the top 10-20% of your class at pretty much any law school, which is the only way to be in good financial shape (high salary) coming out. When I suggest that people retake on here, it is not because I am "T14 or don't go," it is usually because it is financially stupid not to give themselves the opportunity to go after cash in the forms of scholarships at great schools. People convince themselves that waiting is actually financially irrational because they assume they will be in the 75th percentile of starting salaries from their graduating class and thus make more than whatever scholarship they would have gotten with a higher LSAT. When the 75th percentile of earners is about 7% of the class, and sixty percent or so don't even report, I tend to think that it is immaturity and arrogance that allows people to convince themselves of the rationality in going now rather than later. IMO, if you can retake and have a low score, take a risk and retake unless you have a good instate option with low tuition (this of course will all change with age/resources/etc.).
Last edited by josh43299 on Wed Feb 22, 2012 3:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Nelson
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Re: UF vs. Stetson ($$)

Postby Nelson » Wed Feb 22, 2012 3:11 pm

Those stats are even worse than I would have guessed. So the school itself admits that 9 months after graduation, only 260/384 students (67%) were in full time jobs that required a JD.

How is paying six figures for those chances a better idea than retaking? No practicing attorney would look at that and tell you it's a good idea.

josh43299
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Re: UF vs. Stetson ($$)

Postby josh43299 » Wed Feb 22, 2012 3:23 pm

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Last edited by josh43299 on Sat Feb 25, 2012 11:11 am, edited 1 time in total.

acirilli1722
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Re: UF vs. Stetson ($$)

Postby acirilli1722 » Wed Feb 22, 2012 3:27 pm

I don't think Stetson is bad with 30k, but in state residency doesn't have stipulations and from my knowledge UF has a considerably better reputation throughout the state so I would go UF

Geaux12
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Re: UF vs. Stetson ($$)

Postby Geaux12 » Wed Feb 22, 2012 3:37 pm

I always take TLS posts with a boulder of salt. People given the advantage of anonymity tend to be pretentious and dramatic. I've taken the time to seek out successful attorneys in the region I want to find employment, and the consensus was that intelligent, hardworking, and relatively well-connected (read: capable of networking) people who attend FSU and UF have a great shot at landing a good job. Will they place consistently at NYC Big-Law? Of course not, because the majority of people attending a school like UF are looking to stay in Florida anyway. I've got a scholarship to UF that will cover more than 1/3rd of tuition, which combined with my resident status and help from parents with COL makes UF an extremely viable option for a successful (lucrative) career as an attorney.

I'm very aware that the enromous majority of students at any law school will not graduate in the top-10%. It's an unavoidable statistical fact. Not everyone can do well. This is why you have to choose the school that makes the most sense financially. Is Stetson that school? Probably not, considering the employment statistics. UF gives you a much better opportunity in that regard. But if you don't have a scholarship or don't have residency...you might want to reconsider your options.

NickM54
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Re: UF vs. Stetson ($$)

Postby NickM54 » Wed Feb 22, 2012 3:40 pm

OP - I am currently at Stetson. I would go to UF if I were you. Stetson is quite an open environment, and is a cool place to be. That does not mean there are jobs available in large supply. UF is the safer bet, and at in state tuition, this is an easy call.

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Nelson
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Re: UF vs. Stetson ($$)

Postby Nelson » Wed Feb 22, 2012 3:45 pm

Geaux12 wrote:I've taken the time to seek out successful attorneys in the region I want to find employment, and the consensus was that intelligent, hardworking, and relatively well-connected (read: capable of networking) people who attend FSU and UF have a great shot at landing a good job.

How does this jibe with the fact that 1 out of every 3 grads isn't even working in law almost a year after graduation? This kind of anecdotal "I talked to a practicing attorney and he said" evidence is what needs to be taken with a grain of salt around here. If anyone, talk to some 2Ls and 3Ls at the school you want to attend.

Not to mention the fact that OP will have double your debt load since he has no scholarship and will be taking COL loans presumably. Your situations are totally different.
Last edited by Nelson on Wed Feb 22, 2012 3:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Mr. Somebody
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Re: UF vs. Stetson ($$)

Postby Mr. Somebody » Wed Feb 22, 2012 3:46 pm

Geaux12 wrote:I always take TLS posts with a boulder of salt. People given the advantage of anonymity tend to be pretentious and dramatic. I've taken the time to seek out successful attorneys in the region I want to find employment, and the consensus was that intelligent, hardworking, and relatively well-connected (read: capable of networking) people who attend FSU and UF have a great shot at landing a good job. Will they place consistently at NYC Big-Law? Of course not, because the majority of people attending a school like UF are looking to stay in Florida anyway. I've got a scholarship to UF that will cover more than 1/3rd of tuition, which combined with my resident status and help from parents with COL makes UF an extremely viable option for a successful (lucrative) career as an attorney.

I'm very aware that the enromous majority of students at any law school will not graduate in the top-10%. It's an unavoidable statistical fact. Not everyone can do well. This is why you have to choose the school that makes the most sense financially. Is Stetson that school? Probably not, considering the employment statistics. UF gives you a much better opportunity in that regard. But if you don't have a scholarship or don't have residency...you might want to reconsider your options.


You should also be skeptical of any advice attorneys give. Too many lawyers I've talked to give bad advice and perpetuate the mentality that "if you work hard you'll find something". The best lawyers to talk to are the ones that are actually involved in the hiring process and can tell you what you need to finish in your class to be considered. Chances of making a "lucrative" salary out of UF are very small if lucrative = six figures. That said, UF should be a good choice of you given your scholarship and help from parents.

Geaux12
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Re: UF vs. Stetson ($$)

Postby Geaux12 » Wed Feb 22, 2012 3:53 pm

Nelson wrote:
Geaux12 wrote:I've taken the time to seek out successful attorneys in the region I want to find employment, and the consensus was that intelligent, hardworking, and relatively well-connected (read: capable of networking) people who attend FSU and UF have a great shot at landing a good job.

How does this jibe with the fact that 1 out of every 3 grads isn't even working in law almost a year after graduation? This kind of anecdotal "I talked to a practicing attorney and he said" evidence is what needs to be taken with a grain of salt around here. If anyone, talk to some 2Ls and 3Ls at the school you want to attend.

Not to mention the fact that OP will have double your debt load since he has no scholarship and will be taking COL loans presumably. Your situations are totally different.


--LinkRemoved--

Consider the NALP relative to other schools. Things aren't as bleak as you make them out to be.

Geaux12
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Re: UF vs. Stetson ($$)

Postby Geaux12 » Wed Feb 22, 2012 3:56 pm

Mr. Somebody wrote:
Geaux12 wrote: That said, UF should be a good choice of you given your scholarship and help from parents.


I was trying to communicate two points:

1) You have to go to the school that makes the most sense for your individual situation.

2) UF is not some black hole of an institution that swallows dreams and shits out unemployed, highly indebted attorneys.

People are wont to take any criticism of their school of choice as a personal affront. I'm trying to avoid that while sensibly defending UF as an school that makes a lot of sense for a lot of people.

benburns214
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Re: UF vs. Stetson ($$)

Postby benburns214 » Wed Feb 22, 2012 4:07 pm

Geaux12 wrote:I always take TLS posts with a boulder of salt. People given the advantage of anonymity tend to be pretentious and dramatic. I've taken the time to seek out successful attorneys in the region I want to find employment, and the consensus was that intelligent, hardworking, and relatively well-connected (read: capable of networking) people who attend FSU and UF have a great shot at landing a good job. Will they place consistently at NYC Big-Law? Of course not, because the majority of people attending a school like UF are looking to stay in Florida anyway. I've got a scholarship to UF that will cover more than 1/3rd of tuition, which combined with my resident status and help from parents with COL makes UF an extremely viable option for a successful (lucrative) career as an attorney.

I'm very aware that the enromous majority of students at any law school will not graduate in the top-10%. It's an unavoidable statistical fact. Not everyone can do well. This is why you have to choose the school that makes the most sense financially. Is Stetson that school? Probably not, considering the employment statistics. UF gives you a much better opportunity in that regard. But if you don't have a scholarship or don't have residency...you might want to reconsider your options.


+1 billion

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Nelson
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Re: UF vs. Stetson ($$)

Postby Nelson » Wed Feb 22, 2012 4:09 pm

Geaux12 wrote:
Mr. Somebody wrote:
Geaux12 wrote: That said, UF should be a good choice of you given your scholarship and help from parents.


I was trying to communicate two points:

1) You have to go to the school that makes the most sense for your individual situation.

2) UF is not some black hole of an institution that swallows dreams and shits out unemployed, highly indebted attorneys.

People are wont to take any criticism of their school of choice as a personal affront. I'm trying to avoid that while sensibly defending UF as an school that makes a lot of sense for a lot of people.

I didn't come in here to trash UF. I'm sure it's a fine option for people on scholarship, with realistic plans for what they trying to do, and networks in Florida. But given the number of people who do strike out, I don't think that telling OP to retake instead of paying sticker (even at instate) with full COL loans is "0Ls being bitter about things they know nothing about" or whatever. It's sound advice that OP should hear.

benburns214
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Re: UF vs. Stetson ($$)

Postby benburns214 » Wed Feb 22, 2012 4:16 pm

Paul Campos wrote:http://www.law.ufl.edu/career/statistics/

15% of the 2010 class didn't have a job nine months out, and another five percent were in short-term law-school funded jobs (i.e., unemployed in all but name). So that's nearly 20% of the class without a job of any kind, let alone an actual law job.



Of the 332 students that were looking for jobs... only 4 were unable to find them. 4...

The other students clearly cannot be factored in due to the other paths they have chosen to take.
Last edited by benburns214 on Wed Feb 22, 2012 4:54 pm, edited 2 times in total.

benburns214
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Re: UF vs. Stetson ($$)

Postby benburns214 » Wed Feb 22, 2012 4:22 pm

I'm sure it's a fine option for people on scholarship (dont necessarily need a scholarship), with realistic plans for what they trying to do, and networks in Florida (not necessary either). But given the number of people who do strike out, I don't think that telling OP to retake instead of paying sticker (even at instate) with full COL loans is "0Ls being bitter about things they know nothing about" or whatever. It's sound advice that OP should hear

Again, you have no idea what OP wants. What you are doing is casting false doubt upon going to UF, when there should be none. No, OP probably wont work in BigLaw. But is that was OP wants? I dont know, and neither do you. So telling OP to retake is off base IMO, unless OP does want to work in BigLaw... in which case, im sure OP already knows what he/she needs to do.

Paul Campos
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Re: UF vs. Stetson ($$)

Postby Paul Campos » Wed Feb 22, 2012 4:23 pm

benburns214 wrote:
Paul Campos wrote:http://www.law.ufl.edu/career/statistics/

15% of the 2010 class didn't have a job nine months out, and another five percent were in short-term law-school funded jobs (i.e., unemployed in all but name). So that's nearly 20% of the class without a job of any kind, let alone an actual law job.



I just looked at those stats... Are you KIDDING ME with what you wrote? You are either blatantly reading those incorrectly, or you need to go back to school

Of the 332 students that were looking for jobs... only 4 were unable to find them. 4...


Oh my God.

rad lulz
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Re: UF vs. Stetson ($$)

Postby rad lulz » Wed Feb 22, 2012 4:24 pm

.
Last edited by rad lulz on Sun Apr 21, 2013 3:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Nelson
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Re: UF vs. Stetson ($$)

Postby Nelson » Wed Feb 22, 2012 4:49 pm

benburns214 wrote:
Paul Campos wrote:http://www.law.ufl.edu/career/statistics/

15% of the 2010 class didn't have a job nine months out, and another five percent were in short-term law-school funded jobs (i.e., unemployed in all but name). So that's nearly 20% of the class without a job of any kind, let alone an actual law job.



I just looked at those stats... Are you KIDDING ME with what you wrote? You are either blatantly reading those incorrectly, or you need to go back to school

Of the 332 students that were looking for jobs... only 4 were unable to find them. 4...

The other students clearly cannot be factored in due to the other paths they have chosen to take.

Now you trollin'.

benburns214
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Re: UF vs. Stetson ($$)

Postby benburns214 » Wed Feb 22, 2012 5:03 pm

Nelson wrote:
benburns214 wrote:
Paul Campos wrote:http://www.law.ufl.edu/career/statistics/

15% of the 2010 class didn't have a job nine months out, and another five percent were in short-term law-school funded jobs (i.e., unemployed in all but name). So that's nearly 20% of the class without a job of any kind, let alone an actual law job.



I just looked at those stats... Are you KIDDING ME with what you wrote? You are either blatantly reading those incorrectly, or you need to go back to school

Of the 332 students that were looking for jobs... only 4 were unable to find them. 4...

The other students clearly cannot be factored in due to the other paths they have chosen to take.

Now you trollin'.


I just dont think you can count those other students in as "unemployed students"... just my opinion though.

duckmoney
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Re: UF vs. Stetson ($$)

Postby duckmoney » Wed Feb 22, 2012 6:28 pm

benburns214 wrote:
Nelson wrote:
benburns214 wrote:
Paul Campos wrote:http://www.law.ufl.edu/career/statistics/

15% of the 2010 class didn't have a job nine months out, and another five percent were in short-term law-school funded jobs (i.e., unemployed in all but name). So that's nearly 20% of the class without a job of any kind, let alone an actual law job.



I just looked at those stats... Are you KIDDING ME with what you wrote? You are either blatantly reading those incorrectly, or you need to go back to school

Of the 332 students that were looking for jobs... only 4 were unable to find them. 4...

The other students clearly cannot be factored in due to the other paths they have chosen to take.

Now you trollin'.


I just dont think you can count those other students in as "unemployed students"... just my opinion though.


At the risk of feeding the troll...

People don't turn down jobs to go do other things, it's the other way around. They go get another grad degree because they couldn't find a job. Any prudent person would consider a graduate "not seeking employment" as having tried but failed and given up trying to find a job.

benburns214
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Re: UF vs. Stetson ($$)

Postby benburns214 » Wed Feb 22, 2012 6:52 pm

Ok my GOD people... Apparently you cant voice anything other than a pessimistic opinion on here without being labeled a "troll". So ok... you win.

OP, its clear to me now that you CANNOT go to UF. If you do, you will be unemployed, severly in debt, and probably a crack addict that lives in a Refridgerator box DOWN BY THE RIVER!!!! ImageThere is no other option.

That is your future if you go to UF... a crack addict. Do you want to be a unemployed crack addict OP? No? Well then you better retake that LSAT and get a 170+, or that WILL BE your future. I mean christ, how are you supposed to support your nasty crack habit with 200K of debt!?!?!? It just doesn't add up OP... it... just... isnt... logical.

I am cleaning my hands of this conversation... have a great evening everyone. :lol:

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Br3v
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Re: UF vs. Stetson ($$)

Postby Br3v » Thu Mar 01, 2012 11:23 am

benburns214 wrote:Ok my GOD people... Apparently you cant voice anything other than a pessimistic opinion on here without being labeled a "troll". So ok... you win.

OP, its clear to me now that you CANNOT go to UF. If you do, you will be unemployed, severly in debt, and probably a crack addict that lives in a Refridgerator box DOWN BY THE RIVER!!!! ImageThere is no other option.

That is your future if you go to UF... a crack addict. Do you want to be a unemployed crack addict OP? No? Well then you better retake that LSAT and get a 170+, or that WILL BE your future. I mean christ, how are you supposed to support your nasty crack habit with 200K of debt!?!?!? It just doesn't add up OP... it... just... isnt... logical.

I am cleaning my hands of this conversation... have a great evening everyone. :lol:


Could have at least formatted that picture a little better.




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