Cornell v Pitt$$$$ Forum

Lacepiece23 · Post by **Lacepiece23** » Mon Feb 20, 2012 1:53 pm

Hey all,

I know this might seem like an unusual comparison but heres my situation. I have been recently accepted to Cornell which is the only t14 I am likely to get into. I have also received a full scholly from Pitt which is the market I want to work in. I live close enough to the school to commute everyday and would probably incur almost no debt while at law school if I attend Pitt. I really don't want NYC big law but wouldn't mind working for either of the two big law firms in my city. My question is Cornell at sticker to try and break into big law in the Pittsburgh market or Pitt for free and take the more than likely chance of striking out unless I'm top 5-10% of my class.

bk1 · Post by **bk1** » Mon Feb 20, 2012 1:58 pm

Stips on the Pitt scholly?

Mr. Somebody · Post by **Mr. Somebody** » Mon Feb 20, 2012 2:25 pm

siouxfan45 wrote:Before people start posting ridiculous responses, let me give you practical advice: get in touch with lawyers in Pittsburgh (where you want to work, I'm assuming) and ask if they would be willing to give you some advice on this situation. I'm sure you'll find people that have been successful from both institutions. Go with your heart on where you want to work and where you will be happiest. Many lawyers will respond to you via e-mail, just keep it short/concise and thank them for their time.

I would be careful with this advice. Many lawyers are out of touch with the job market and delusional about law school in general. The older they are, the less likely they will be giving you good advice. I know this from personal experience.

OP, the last sentence in your post is worded strangely, but I would probably probably consider taking Pitt. The advantage of Cornell is its NYC placement and if you would be totally unhappy with NYC biglaw then being a debt slave there wouldn't be a whole lot better than striking out at Pitt and either ending up in an undesirable legal job or switching careers but having no debt weighing you down. On the other hand, with ties, you probably wouldn't have to finish as high in your class as Cornell to secure a high-paying job in Pitt.

Chucky21 · Post by **Chucky21** » Mon Feb 20, 2012 3:16 pm

Mr. Somebody wrote:
siouxfan45 wrote:Before people start posting ridiculous responses, let me give you practical advice: get in touch with lawyers in Pittsburgh (where you want to work, I'm assuming) and ask if they would be willing to give you some advice on this situation. I'm sure you'll find people that have been successful from both institutions. Go with your heart on where you want to work and where you will be happiest. Many lawyers will respond to you via e-mail, just keep it short/concise and thank them for their time.
I would be careful with this advice. Many lawyers are out of touch with the job market and delusional about law school in general. The older they are, the less likely they will be giving you good advice. I know this from personal experience.

OP, the last sentence in your post is worded strangely, but I would probably probably consider taking Pitt. The advantage of Cornell is its NYC placement and if you would be totally unhappy with NYC biglaw then being a debt slave there wouldn't be a whole lot better than striking out at Pitt and either ending up in an undesirable legal job or switching careers but having no debt weighing you down. On the other hand, with ties, you probably wouldn't have to finish as high in your class as Cornell to secure a high-paying job in Pitt.

I would still say Cornell would give you the best opportunity for wherever you want to work. We can't tell what we will be doing or where we will be a few years from now, a Cornell JD travels better than pitt. And you can always do biglaw for a while to get rid of debt and then pursue your interests, unless you end up liking biglaw and the pay.

CanadianWolf · Post by **CanadianWolf** » Mon Feb 20, 2012 3:19 pm

Pitt for free since you want to work in Pittsburgh (assuming that the only stipulation for keeping your scholarship is to remain in good standing).

gaud · Post by **gaud** » Mon Feb 20, 2012 3:20 pm

If the stips in the Pitt scholarship aren't bad, I would take it and run. Of course Cornell will give you better job prospects but it will also cost you $200k+ . I'd rather be struggling to find a job with no loan payments than being forced to find biglaw and be paying back $1000+ a month.

Lacepiece23 · Post by **Lacepiece23** » Mon Feb 20, 2012 3:33 pm

Stips are only maintaing a 3.0 for Pitt I just don't like the idea of working in NYC because of the cost of living compared to other cities. Pittsburgh I can find housing for less than 700 a month in a decent area and am comfortable living here. I am leaning towards Pitt, but just wanted to ask some advice. Thanks for all the input.

SnowDude · Post by **SnowDude** » Mon Feb 20, 2012 3:40 pm

Lacepiece23 wrote:Stips are only maintaing a 3.0 for Pitt I just don't like the idea of working in NYC because of the cost of living compared to other cities. Pittsburgh I can find housing for less than 700 a month in a decent area and am comfortable living here. I am leaning towards Pitt, but just wanted to ask some advice. Thanks for all the input.

Have you taken a look at the Pittsburgh distribution? It's hidden here: http://www.law.pitt.edu/resources/grades/distribution

Mr. Somebody · Post by **Mr. Somebody** » Mon Feb 20, 2012 3:43 pm

Lacepiece23 wrote:Stips are only maintaing a 3.0 for Pitt I just don't like the idea of working in NYC because of the cost of living compared to other cities. Pittsburgh I can find housing for less than 700 a month in a decent area and am comfortable living here. I am leaning towards Pitt, but just wanted to ask some advice. Thanks for all the input.

If cost of living is the only reason you don't want NYC than you may need to rethink this. At cornell you would have a 50-60% shot at making well over six-figures, whereas at Pitt you really need to finish in the top 10% for that.

bk1 · Post by **bk1** » Mon Feb 20, 2012 3:46 pm

Lacepiece23 wrote:Stips are only maintaing a 3.0 for Pitt I just don't like the idea of working in NYC because of the cost of living compared to other cities. Pittsburgh I can find housing for less than 700 a month in a decent area and am comfortable living here. I am leaning towards Pitt, but just wanted to ask some advice. Thanks for all the input.

If you don't want to live in NYC then sticker at a T14 is a bad idea, imo, since the easiest (comparatively) biglaw is in NYC and biglaw is the easiest (comparatively) way to pay off 200k+ debt.

That being said, if CoL alone is the reason you don't want to live in NYC, it is something to think about that there are drastic differences in the types of salaries that Pitt students and Cornell students get.

Incubateus · Post by **Incubateus** » Mon Feb 20, 2012 3:47 pm

I've done a lot of Pittsburgh research. If you are talking about K&L, Jones Day, or Reed Smith, I would go with Cornell. I spoke witha hiring partner at Dickie McCamey and he said that for one job opening they are likely to get 200-300 from pitt grads, 200-300 from duquesne grads, and 50-100 from T14. They seemingly start at the T14 pile.

CanadianWolf · Post by **CanadianWolf** » Mon Feb 20, 2012 3:47 pm

Based on Pitt's grade distribution & on your scholarship stipulation of maintaining a 3.0 GPA, then Cornell deserves a second look. Try to negotiate for better terms on your Pitt scholarship by citing your Cornell acceptance.

P.S. Cornell & UCal-Berkeley non-resident rates are the two highest law school tuitions in the nation.

Lacepiece23 · Post by **Lacepiece23** » Mon Feb 20, 2012 3:47 pm

Mr. Somebody wrote:
Lacepiece23 wrote:Stips are only maintaing a 3.0 for Pitt I just don't like the idea of working in NYC because of the cost of living compared to other cities. Pittsburgh I can find housing for less than 700 a month in a decent area and am comfortable living here. I am leaning towards Pitt, but just wanted to ask some advice. Thanks for all the input.
If cost of living is the only reason you don't want NYC than you may need to rethink this. At cornell you would have a 50-60% shot at making well over six-figures, whereas at Pitt you really need to finish in the top 10% for that.

I understand that I will probably strike out at big law with Pitt law, but I think its possible to make 60,000 or so maybe less with no debt coming out of school is this more preferable than making 160,000 major debt and having to live in a city with one of the worst purchasing power in the country? I kinda think that this makes for a non-pressured environment coming out of school.

johansantana21 · Post by **johansantana21** » Mon Feb 20, 2012 3:48 pm

Cornell is a festering TTT. Take PiTTT with $$$.

thexfactor · Post by **thexfactor** » Mon Feb 20, 2012 3:49 pm

In order to get biglaw from upitt you would need to be in the top 10%. This by no means means that you are secure for biglaw. THere was an article in the news a couple years ago about a student at Upitt who was num 1 in his class but only received a biglaw job 6 months after he graduated. I heard people say that the only reason he got the job was because the school called in a huge favor to one of the biglaw firms in town.

Cornell is more of a 50/50 shot. There are people that get biglaw jobs below median.

IMO don't limit yourself to one geographic location. I would go to Cornell. You are giving up way too much in terms of career prospects by going to Upitt. Having a biglaw job is better than no job or shitlaw in pittsburgh. There aren't that many 50k-70k jobs out there. There really is a myth about midlaw. Very few firms pay in that range. Usually it is either biglaw or shitlaw (30k) or doc review. Even the doc review circuit is getting saturated.

Mr. Somebody · Post by **Mr. Somebody** » Mon Feb 20, 2012 3:52 pm

Lacepiece23 wrote:
Mr. Somebody wrote:
Lacepiece23 wrote:Stips are only maintaing a 3.0 for Pitt I just don't like the idea of working in NYC because of the cost of living compared to other cities. Pittsburgh I can find housing for less than 700 a month in a decent area and am comfortable living here. I am leaning towards Pitt, but just wanted to ask some advice. Thanks for all the input.
If cost of living is the only reason you don't want NYC than you may need to rethink this. At cornell you would have a 50-60% shot at making well over six-figures, whereas at Pitt you really need to finish in the top 10% for that.
I understand that I will probably strike out at big law with Pitt law, but I think its possible to make 60,000 or so maybe less with no debt coming out of school is this more preferable than making 160,000 major debt and having to live in a city with one of the worst purchasing power in the country? I kinda think that this makes for a non-pressured environment coming out of school.

Yeah, that's why I think you should consider Pitt. Try to get those stips removed.

One problem is that Pitt's own stats say that only ~18% of their 2009 grads were able to get jobs paying $60k or more. So you can't even be sure that your odds of making that kind of salary are very good. And this isn't even considering the quality or types of jobs you are likely to get.

thexfactor · Post by **thexfactor** » Mon Feb 20, 2012 3:54 pm

Mr. Somebody wrote:
Lacepiece23 wrote:
Mr. Somebody wrote:
Lacepiece23 wrote:Stips are only maintaing a 3.0 for Pitt I just don't like the idea of working in NYC because of the cost of living compared to other cities. Pittsburgh I can find housing for less than 700 a month in a decent area and am comfortable living here. I am leaning towards Pitt, but just wanted to ask some advice. Thanks for all the input.
If cost of living is the only reason you don't want NYC than you may need to rethink this. At cornell you would have a 50-60% shot at making well over six-figures, whereas at Pitt you really need to finish in the top 10% for that.
I understand that I will probably strike out at big law with Pitt law, but I think its possible to make 60,000 or so maybe less with no debt coming out of school is this more preferable than making 160,000 major debt and having to live in a city with one of the worst purchasing power in the country? I kinda think that this makes for a non-pressured environment coming out of school.
Yeah, that's why I think you should consider Pitt. Try to get those stips removed.

One problem is that Pitt's own stats say that only ~18% of their 2009 grads were able to get jobs paying $60k or more. So you can't even be sure that your odds of making that kind of salary are very good. And this isn't even considering the quality or types of jobs you are likely to get.

Even if he gets his stips removed it wouldn't help him that much. What good is it to graduate from below median at Upitt?
The only thing he could get if that happens is a doc review job.

A doc review job 99times out of 100 doesn't help you with your future job prospects.

My friend knows someone who got off the waitlist at Michigan and chose to go to Case western (similar job prospects as Upitt) full ride instead. He is currently jobless right now and safe to say... is really prob regretting his decision.

CanadianWolf · Post by **CanadianWolf** » Mon Feb 20, 2012 3:58 pm

However, OP wants to live & work in Pittsburgh after law school & is not limiting his job search to biglaw. Cornell offers biglaw & bigdebt.

thexfactor · Post by **thexfactor** » Mon Feb 20, 2012 4:00 pm

CanadianWolf wrote:However, OP wants to live & work in Pittsburgh after law school & is not lomiting his job search to biglaw. Cornell offers biglaw & bigdebt.

What kind of job though? If he is not in the top 10%-15% of his class it will be shit law 30k or doc review.
Yes, he has no debt... but he also doens't have a career. He would essentially be where he is right now, someone looking for a career, except 3 years older.

Mr. Somebody · Post by **Mr. Somebody** » Mon Feb 20, 2012 4:03 pm

Yeah, the more I think about it, I would go with Cornell if I were OP. Especially since his reasons for not wanting NYC aren't very strong. Pittsburgh firms would likely go deeper into Cornell's class than Pitt's so you wouldn't have to finish at the top 10% to go back home.

dissonance1848 · Post by **dissonance1848** » Mon Feb 20, 2012 4:04 pm

I say Cornell. If you do Cornell, you have a better chance of breaking into Biglaw in Pittsburgh. The only thing is you would need to transfer from, say, the NYC main office to the Pittsburgh one (always a pain to get satellite offices, since they have so few SA slots, so overly selective). If you go to Pitt, yeah, you will have more leeway immediately in terms of work, but you ain't getting biglaw or midlaw (it doesn't exist in Pittsburgh), you'll most likely be getting 60K a year or below.

rad lulz · Post by **rad lulz** » Mon Feb 20, 2012 4:07 pm

Come back when you get into Cornell.

Lacepiece23 · Post by **Lacepiece23** » Mon Feb 20, 2012 4:09 pm

rad lulz wrote:Come back when you get into Cornell.

I've already been accepted to Cornell??

rad lulz · Post by **rad lulz** » Mon Feb 20, 2012 4:15 pm

Lacepiece23 wrote:
rad lulz wrote:Come back when you get into Cornell.
I've already been accepted to Cornell??

Whoops my bad. Is there nowhere in between you can go? Are these really the only two choices?

Lacepiece23 · Post by **Lacepiece23** » Mon Feb 20, 2012 4:20 pm

rad lulz wrote:
Lacepiece23 wrote:
rad lulz wrote:Come back when you get into Cornell.
I've already been accepted to Cornell??
Whoops my bad. Is there nowhere in between you can go? Are these really the only two choices?

Its cool I mean Vandy, W & L, W & M, OSU, Vandy is the only other school with national reach. I'm not sure whether they will be offering money. The other school's are just better regional schools so in my opinion whats the point of going to school in a region I don't really want to be in and still have debt. The best I've done from the other schools is a half scholarship with stips. Thats the reason my decision has really come down to these two schools.

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