Which offer should I accept?

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woeisme
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Re: Which offer should I accept?

Postby woeisme » Sun Mar 04, 2012 3:33 pm

This is a tough call.

No, just kidding. Definitely UT.

Txchick811
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Re: Which offer should I accept?

Postby Txchick811 » Thu Mar 15, 2012 9:48 pm

patrickd139 wrote:This has to be a flame. UT and it's not even close. I don't care if they were going to pay you to go to Texas Wesleyan, it's still a death knell to your career prospects.

And to the person above who said that Texas Wesleyan is the worst school in the state, I'd encourage you to expand your geographic reach a bit: it may be one of the worst schools in the country re: the traditional metrics.

I now invite bros to come at me with anecdotal advice which refutes my statements.


@patrickd139-- Texas Wesleyan happens to have AALS certification, highly experienced and caring professors, award-winning advocacy programs, alums with Texas bar exam "top-scores," high legal-community support, and much more. Don't knock what you know little about. Put me up against a UT student and it will not be a push over. I get interviews for virtually every (intern) job I apply for, and have so many opportunities--both paid and unpaid--that there is no way I could do them all. You can have your UT degree, I will take my Tex Wes degree, summa cum laude, law review, moot court, mock trial, and arbitration competition team designations and be first in line when the job I want next year is awarded--to me! I will also be thankful for the 32,000 scholarship that was doubled on merit for the final two years.

Jcolt07--pm me if you have any questions.

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spleenworship
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Re: Which offer should I accept?

Postby spleenworship » Thu Mar 15, 2012 10:05 pm

Txchick811 wrote:
patrickd139 wrote:This has to be a flame. UT and it's not even close. I don't care if they were going to pay you to go to Texas Wesleyan, it's still a death knell to your career prospects.

And to the person above who said that Texas Wesleyan is the worst school in the state, I'd encourage you to expand your geographic reach a bit: it may be one of the worst schools in the country re: the traditional metrics.

I now invite bros to come at me with anecdotal advice which refutes my statements.


@patrickd139-- Texas Wesleyan happens to have AALS certification, highly experienced and caring professors, award-winning advocacy programs, alums with Texas bar exam "top-scores," high legal-community support, and much more. Don't knock what you know little about. Put me up against a UT student and it will not be a push over. I get interviews for virtually every (intern) job I apply for, and have so many opportunities--both paid and unpaid--that there is no way I could do them all. You can have your UT degree, I will take my Tex Wes degree, summa cum laude, law review, moot court, mock trial, and arbitration competition team designations and be first in line when the job I want next year is awarded--to me! I will also be thankful for the 32,000 scholarship that was doubled on merit for the final two years.

Jcolt07--pm me if you have any questions.


Let me ask you a question TxChick: How many of your classmates can say the same? From what you are claiming you are obviously top 10%. Tell me honestly- how are your below median classmates faring in getting a job? I bet most of them aren't.

Even top 10% at Cooley gets good jobs. It is just the other 90% you have to worry about.

bartleby
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Re: Which offer should I accept?

Postby bartleby » Thu Mar 15, 2012 10:10 pm

UT unless you're doing law school to put off real life

Jcolt07
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Re: Which offer should I accept?

Postby Jcolt07 » Fri Mar 16, 2012 7:41 am

No, I've been in real life. I've been working on oil rigs for the past year after graduating with a BBA in Finance in May. All real life made me aware of is that a bachelor's degree in finance will not cut it in "real life" if I actually want to have an enjoyable career. After helping out at a law office when I'm home from the rig, I've realized this is something I will enjoy and have the potential to be successful at. Real life has also taught me that when someone offers you 44,000 dollars to attend a school, leaving you 60,000 dollars in debt (w/ undergrad loans), and another, larger school offers you nothing, leaving you nearly 150,000 dollars in debt, you should dig in to the details and weigh your options before making a decision.

Thank you for posting Txchick. PM sent.

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top30man
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Re: Which offer should I accept?

Postby top30man » Fri Mar 16, 2012 7:50 am

dproduct wrote:
sparty99 wrote:Huh? Clearly, you go to UT unless SMU or Houston gave you a full-ride.....

Anybody who is anybody in Texas will recruit at UT. You will have to be # 1 at Wes to even get the opportunities that you would at UT. This decision is a no brainer.

bartleby
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Re: Which offer should I accept?

Postby bartleby » Fri Mar 16, 2012 8:40 am

Jcolt07 wrote:No, I've been in real life. I've been working on oil rigs for the past year after graduating with a BBA in Finance in May. All real life made me aware of is that a bachelor's degree in finance will not cut it in "real life" if I actually want to have an enjoyable career. After helping out at a law office when I'm home from the rig, I've realized this is something I will enjoy and have the potential to be successful at. Real life has also taught me that when someone offers you 44,000 dollars to attend a school, leaving you 60,000 dollars in debt (w/ undergrad loans), and another, larger school offers you nothing, leaving you nearly 150,000 dollars in debt, you should dig in to the details and weigh your options before making a decision.

Thank you for posting Txchick. PM sent.


lol go to UT, close this thread, never mention Tex Wes again

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patrickd139
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Re: Which offer should I accept?

Postby patrickd139 » Fri Mar 16, 2012 10:30 am

Txchick811 wrote:
patrickd139 wrote:
I now invite bros to come at me with anecdotal advice which refutes my statements.


@patrickd139-- [Anecdotal advice which refutes my statements] Texas Wesleyan happens to have AALS certification, highly experienced and caring professors, award-winning advocacy programs, alums with Texas bar exam "top-scores," high legal-community support, and much more. Don't knock what you know little about. Put me up against a UT student and it will not be a push over. I get interviews for virtually every (intern) job I apply for, and have so many opportunities--both paid and unpaid--that there is no way I could do them all. You can have your UT degree, I will take my Tex Wes degree, summa cum laude, law review, moot court, mock trial, and arbitration competition team designations and be first in line when the job I want next year is awarded--to me! I will also be thankful for the 32,000 scholarship that was doubled on merit for the final two years.


A) Please elaborate on this plethora of opportunities--both paid and unpaid--that you're turning down due to lack of time.
B) Crap law schools graduate good attorneys all the time. My post was directed at job opportunities, not who can practice law the best. In fact, if only the top schools graduated great attorneys, I'd be fucked. That said, to equate the job opportunities of a fourth tier university that's not even the third best school in its home market to those of the best school in the state, region, and (arguably) lower half of the U.S. is dumb.
C) spleenworship hit the nail right on the head: just because you might have those options (which, again, I assert are not nearly as awesome as you think they are), does not mean that the other 95%+ of your classmates do have those options. When giving advice on a legal forum, go with a hypothetical student at the median, since that's (statistically) where OP is going to be at any law school. It's not like college: you can't assume everyone gets As and is at the top of the class. You, of all people, should know this.

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Stanford4Me
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Re: Which offer should I accept?

Postby Stanford4Me » Fri Mar 16, 2012 10:41 am

You're asking if you should attend Texas Wesleyan over UT?

Check out Law School Transparency. (LinkRemoved)

Txchick811
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Re: Which offer should I accept?

Postby Txchick811 » Sat Mar 17, 2012 3:06 pm

patrickd139 wrote:
Txchick811 wrote:
patrickd139 wrote:
I now invite bros to come at me with anecdotal advice which refutes my statements.


@patrickd139-- [Anecdotal advice which refutes my statements] Texas Wesleyan happens to have AALS certification, highly experienced and caring professors, award-winning advocacy programs, alums with Texas bar exam "top-scores," high legal-community support, and much more. Don't knock what you know little about. Put me up against a UT student and it will not be a push over. I get interviews for virtually every (intern) job I apply for, and have so many opportunities--both paid and unpaid--that there is no way I could do them all. You can have your UT degree, I will take my Tex Wes degree, summa cum laude, law review, moot court, mock trial, and arbitration competition team designations and be first in line when the job I want next year is awarded--to me! I will also be thankful for the 32,000 scholarship that was doubled on merit for the final two years.


A) Please elaborate on this plethora of opportunities--both paid and unpaid--that you're turning down due to lack of time.
B) Crap law schools graduate good attorneys all the time. My post was directed at job opportunities, not who can practice law the best. In fact, if only the top schools graduated great attorneys, I'd be fucked. That said, to equate the job opportunities of a fourth tier university that's not even the third best school in its home market to those of the best school in the state, region, and (arguably) lower half of the U.S. is dumb.
C) spleenworship hit the nail right on the head: just because you might have those options (which, again, I assert are not nearly as awesome as you think they are), does not mean that the other 95%+ of your classmates do have those options. When giving advice on a legal forum, go with a hypothetical student at the median, since that's (statistically) where OP is going to be at any law school. It's not like college: you can't assume everyone gets As and is at the top of the class. You, of all people, should know this.



A. Paid--a job writing appellate briefs; Paid--a job clerking in a law firm; unpaid--a clerk position with the civil division of the DA's office (and those are simply for this semester). I accepted two positions with the DA's office on the criminal side and with the Judicial Staff Counsel (both this spring). I have already been asked back by both.
B. I NEVER said that we had the same opportunities via OCI--I will be the first to admit that we don't. But it is equally important that the opportunities which are important to me are plentiful. At OCI's last year I had 11 interviews--it was from those opportunities that I eventually chose my position for this summer. It is in the 4th largest office of its kind in the nation, ten of the twelve positions offered went to out of state candidates, one to me and one to a Tech student--none to UT students.
C. You shouldn't assert anything unless you have facts to back it up---haven't you learned anything in law school? Both school and the resulting job opportunities are what you make them. Yes, I am at the extreme top of my class, but I don't believe grades always equal success or opportunities. Half of it is still who you know and what effort YOU are willing to make to succeed. The OP has just as much control over that as the person in the top 2% of their class.

ADDITIONALLY, JColt mentioned that he already knows what he wants to do and who he wants to practice with. The issues you are mentioning are not his only considerations, and why should he assume that he will just be an average student? Some of us never consider that to begin with--we assume we will be at the top because we will put in the effort and work to be there.

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spleenworship
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Re: Which offer should I accept?

Postby spleenworship » Sat Mar 17, 2012 6:13 pm

Txchick811 wrote:
patrickd139 wrote:
Txchick811 wrote:
patrickd139 wrote:
I now invite bros to come at me with anecdotal advice which refutes my statements.


@patrickd139-- [Anecdotal advice which refutes my statements] Texas Wesleyan happens to have AALS certification, highly experienced and caring professors, award-winning advocacy programs, alums with Texas bar exam "top-scores," high legal-community support, and much more. Don't knock what you know little about. Put me up against a UT student and it will not be a push over. I get interviews for virtually every (intern) job I apply for, and have so many opportunities--both paid and unpaid--that there is no way I could do them all. You can have your UT degree, I will take my Tex Wes degree, summa cum laude, law review, moot court, mock trial, and arbitration competition team designations and be first in line when the job I want next year is awarded--to me! I will also be thankful for the 32,000 scholarship that was doubled on merit for the final two years.


A) Please elaborate on this plethora of opportunities--both paid and unpaid--that you're turning down due to lack of time.
B) Crap law schools graduate good attorneys all the time. My post was directed at job opportunities, not who can practice law the best. In fact, if only the top schools graduated great attorneys, I'd be fucked. That said, to equate the job opportunities of a fourth tier university that's not even the third best school in its home market to those of the best school in the state, region, and (arguably) lower half of the U.S. is dumb.
C) spleenworship hit the nail right on the head: just because you might have those options (which, again, I assert are not nearly as awesome as you think they are), does not mean that the other 95%+ of your classmates do have those options. When giving advice on a legal forum, go with a hypothetical student at the median, since that's (statistically) where OP is going to be at any law school. It's not like college: you can't assume everyone gets As and is at the top of the class. You, of all people, should know this.



A. Paid--a job writing appellate briefs; Paid--a job clerking in a law firm; unpaid--a clerk position with the civil division of the DA's office (and those are simply for this semester). I accepted two positions with the DA's office on the criminal side and with the Judicial Staff Counsel (both this spring). I have already been asked back by both.
B. I NEVER said that we had the same opportunities via OCI--I will be the first to admit that we don't. But it is equally important that the opportunities which are important to me are plentiful. At OCI's last year I had 11 interviews--it was from those opportunities that I eventually chose my position for this summer. It is in the 4th largest office of its kind in the nation, ten of the twelve positions offered went to out of state candidates, one to me and one to a Tech student--none to UT students.
C. You shouldn't assert anything unless you have facts to back it up---haven't you learned anything in law school? Both school and the resulting job opportunities are what you make them. Yes, I am at the extreme top of my class, but I don't believe grades always equal success or opportunities. Half of it is still who you know and what effort YOU are willing to make to succeed. The OP has just as much control over that as the person in the top 2% of their class.

ADDITIONALLY, JColt mentioned that he already knows what he wants to do and who he wants to practice with. The issues you are mentioning are not his only considerations, and why should he assume that he will just be an average student? Some of us never consider that to begin with--we assume we will be at the top because we will put in the effort and work to be there.


Bolded means that you either aren't in law school (most likely), or if you are you are an insufferable gunner whose classmates profoundly dislike them (somewhat likely), or you are in law school but your classmates somehow control their jealousy of your opportunities while they search for shitlaw jobs because you are somehow more likable in person than over this computer screen (least likely).

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patrickd139
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Re: Which offer should I accept?

Postby patrickd139 » Sat Mar 17, 2012 6:58 pm

Txchick811 wrote:
patrickd139 wrote:
Txchick811 wrote:
patrickd139 wrote:
I now invite bros to come at me with anecdotal advice which refutes my statements.


@patrickd139-- [Anecdotal advice which refutes my statements]


[retort]

A. Paid--a job writing appellate briefs; Paid--a job clerking in a law firm; unpaid--a clerk position with the civil division of the DA's office (and those are simply for this semester). I accepted two positions with the DA's office on the criminal side and with the Judicial Staff Counsel (both this spring). I have already been asked back by both.
B. I NEVER said that we had the same opportunities via OCI--I will be the first to admit that we don't. But it is equally important that the opportunities which are important to me are plentiful. At OCI's last year I had 11 interviews--it was from those opportunities that I eventually chose my position for this summer. It is in the 4th largest office of its kind in the nation, ten of the twelve positions offered went to out of state candidates, one to me and one to a Tech student--none to UT students.
C. You shouldn't assert anything unless you have facts to back it up---haven't you learned anything in law school? Both school and the resulting job opportunities are what you make them. Yes, I am at the extreme top of my class, but I don't believe grades always equal success or opportunities. Half of it is still who you know and what effort YOU are willing to make to succeed. The OP has just as much control over that as the person in the top 2% of their class.

ADDITIONALLY, JColt mentioned that he already knows what he wants to do and who he wants to practice with. The issues you are mentioning are not his only considerations, and why should he assume that he will just be an average student? Some of us never consider that to begin with--we assume we will be at the top because we will put in the effort and work to be there.

First, you're clearly delusional if you think willing your way to the top of the class is sufficient. I'm honestly happy that it worked out for you, but it's stupid and reckless to give advice to people you've never met and know nothing about on an internet forum and assume they'll be able to replicate your success. For instance, what if OP has a family and can't gun as hard as you clearly do?

A. You're also mincing issues and probably comparing apples with oranges. For instance, what type of employer paid you to write appellate briefs? What type of firm hired you? You're interning at a DA's office and for a non-Article III judge? Cool story, bro. That'll be great exposure, but is not nearly the caliber of job opportunities available at a school with UT's clout.

B. I agree that your (emphasis added) success at OCI appears impressive. But I ask the same important question here as above: what type of employer interviewed you? If it's 5 DAs offices, 3 solo practitioners and 3 small law firms in Midland, I'm not impressed. "...4th largest office of it's kind in the nation"? "...out of state law schools"? Could you be more vague, please? Also, the fact that they hired a Tech student, a Texas Wesleyan student and didn't have any UT students is not a selling point.

Anecdotal counterpoint: I'm not in the top 2% of my class, and had over 30 OCI interviews at midlaw and biglaw firms (think Bryan Cave, Thompson & Knight, etc.) and almost 20 callbacks.

Snarky, personal, dig: Only one job lined up this summer? Weak sauce.

C. On asserting things without facts to back it up, I'm going to throw this one right back at you: YOU (presumably) DON'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT THE OP OR OTHERS WHO ARE SUPPOSED TO TAKE YOUR ADVICE. For starters, you don't know whether the OP is even capable of making as much of the "school and the resulting job opportunities" as you. What if s/he can't give enough time to be at the top of his or her class and is destined to be at the median? What if s/he isn't as smart as you are? I'd rather have median-at-UT job prospects over median-at-Wesleyan job prospect every day that ends in 'y'. Your take on grades not equaling success or opportunities is ludicris, and evidenced by the fact that you have opportunities and your classmates do not. It's not because you're a special snowflake that tries hard that you got your job options: it's because you're ranked in the top 2% of your class. If you were in the top 2% of your class at Harvard, care to tell me that your job prospects wouldn't be different?

/personal, snarky, nit-picky diatribe

(Sorry, the MPRE has put me in a foul mood.)

EMZE
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Re: Which offer should I accept?

Postby EMZE » Sat Mar 17, 2012 10:07 pm

top30man wrote:
dproduct wrote:
sparty99 wrote:Huh? Clearly, you go to UT unless SMU or Houston gave you a full-ride.....

Anybody who is anybody in Texas will recruit at UT. You will have to be # 1 at Wes to even get the opportunities that you would at UT. This decision is a no brainer.

Txchick811
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Re: Which offer should I accept?

Postby Txchick811 » Sun Mar 18, 2012 1:03 am

Wow. Apparently the MPRE has put several of you in snarky foul moods. Glad I took it last November--apparently this one made people bitchy.

First, this is precisely the reason I don't generally post replies. Sad that some feel the need to personally put down others or other people's schools. I'm glad you all love UT so much, and are so pleased with your choice, but JColt deserves more than your completely biased and somewhat elitist attitudes. If you'll review you will find I never put down a single thing about your school, but you sure did mine.

Second, I absolutely am in law school, ten of my 11 interviews were big law firms (yeah--think T & K), I interned with a federal judge last summer, and my position for this summer is ten weeks long--not six--that makes it hard to do more than one. Also, I'm quite personable. I don't brag about my achievements to my classmates, there is no need. However, when people put down MY school and say that no one who goes there stands a chance it tends to tick me off.

BTW...my mock trial partner and I kicked UT butt at the NTC competition this spring. I'm savoring that victory even a little more right now.

Have a great spring--I'm out of this conversation.

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spleenworship
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Re: Which offer should I accept?

Postby spleenworship » Sun Mar 18, 2012 12:02 pm

Txchick811 wrote:Wow. Apparently the MPRE has put several of you in snarky foul moods. Glad I took it last November--apparently this one made people bitchy.

First, this is precisely the reason I don't generally post replies. Sad that some feel the need to personally put down others or other people's schools. I'm glad you all love UT so much, and are so pleased with your choice, but JColt deserves more than your completely biased and somewhat elitist attitudes. If you'll review you will find I never put down a single thing about your school, but you sure did mine.

Second, I absolutely am in law school, ten of my 11 interviews were big law firms (yeah--think T & K), I interned with a federal judge last summer, and my position for this summer is ten weeks long--not six--that makes it hard to do more than one. Also, I'm quite personable. I don't brag about my achievements to my classmates, there is no need. However, when people put down MY school and say that no one who goes there stands a chance it tends to tick me off.

BTW...my mock trial partner and I kicked UT butt at the NTC competition this spring. I'm savoring that victory even a little more right now.

Have a great spring--I'm out of this conversation.


I note you didn't actually contradict out supposition that your classmates are boned. Just more anecdotal evidence of how you are doing well.

acrossthelake
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Re: Which offer should I accept?

Postby acrossthelake » Sun Mar 18, 2012 1:02 pm

Txchick811 wrote:Wow. Apparently the MPRE has put several of you in snarky foul moods. Glad I took it last November--apparently this one made people bitchy.

First, this is precisely the reason I don't generally post replies. Sad that some feel the need to personally put down others or other people's schools. I'm glad you all love UT so much, and are so pleased with your choice, but JColt deserves more than your completely biased and somewhat elitist attitudes. If you'll review you will find I never put down a single thing about your school, but you sure did mine.

Second, I absolutely am in law school, ten of my 11 interviews were big law firms (yeah--think T & K), I interned with a federal judge last summer, and my position for this summer is ten weeks long--not six--that makes it hard to do more than one. Also, I'm quite personable. I don't brag about my achievements to my classmates, there is no need. However, when people put down MY school and say that no one who goes there stands a chance it tends to tick me off.

BTW...my mock trial partner and I kicked UT butt at the NTC competition this spring. I'm savoring that victory even a little more right now.

Have a great spring--I'm out of this conversation.


Your anecdotes of how well you did to support how good your school does would be better supported if you could say statements like "Everyone I know who wanted a firm job got a firm job, even if they had median grades", or even "Maybe 50% of the people I know who wanted a firm job got a firm job" or "my mock trial partner, who is at median in grades, had 9 out of 10 of her interviews with big lawfirms as well, as did the rest of the mock trial team". Your singular performance of doing well in your job search when you seem to have snagged a fair bit of the accolades one could hope at your school makes you a special case, rather than representative of the school, unless you can start backing up example cases of people with grades much lower than yours doing as well as median at UT.




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