Choosing Tier 4 over t14. Should I do it?

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NYC Law
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Re: Choosing Tier 4 over t14. Should I do it?

Postby NYC Law » Wed Feb 15, 2012 9:19 pm

SnowDude wrote:I'm still curious why her only options are Golden Gate and Michigan. It's such a huge split between schools.


Could be a splitter. All CA top schools care a lot more about GPA than other top schools.

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dingbat
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Re: Choosing Tier 4 over t14. Should I do it?

Postby dingbat » Wed Feb 15, 2012 10:51 pm

I just want to point out that one of the top lawyers in the country for variable insurance is a Golden Gate alumni, so, despite what people say, there's still some prospect.

Having said that, there is no freakin way you should pass up Michigan for Golden Gate

crit_racer
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Re: Choosing Tier 4 over t14. Should I do it?

Postby crit_racer » Wed Feb 15, 2012 10:53 pm

Do it! Do it! I double dog dare you!!!

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hoos89
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Re: Choosing Tier 4 over t14. Should I do it?

Postby hoos89 » Wed Feb 15, 2012 10:56 pm

/
Last edited by hoos89 on Fri Jul 04, 2014 12:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Errzii
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Re: Choosing Tier 4 over t14. Should I do it?

Postby Errzii » Wed Feb 15, 2012 10:59 pm

Choosing Tier 4 over t14. Should I do it?



No. /thread

RodneyBoonfield
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Re: Choosing Tier 4 over t14. Should I do it?

Postby RodneyBoonfield » Wed Feb 15, 2012 11:05 pm

Is this real life?

I guess if you're shooting for public sector or small firm, go for it. I'd think that you'd have gotten an acceptance with $$$ at a better option though.

Boggs
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Re: Choosing Tier 4 over t14. Should I do it?

Postby Boggs » Wed Feb 15, 2012 11:18 pm

Your scholarship likely has a stipulation. It's no guarantee. Go to Michigan, if at all.

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Lincoln
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Re: Choosing Tier 4 over t14. Should I do it?

Postby Lincoln » Wed Feb 15, 2012 11:26 pm

If you're serious about this question, and not a troll, as I posted earlier, I guess it merits a response.

Golden Gate has in the past had their accreditation put on probation by the ABA, was recently sued in a class action for allegedly falsifying employment data, is famous for gaming their students out of scholarships (see http://abovethelaw.com/2011/04/quote-of-the-day-law-school-scholarship-funny-money/), and has a bar passage rate somewhere in the 50% range, with a median starting salary of $60,000 (assuming that data isn't actually falsified). There are at least 10 schools in California that place better into SF law firms that GGU. The only person I know who graduated from there has a "solo practice" and lives with his parents.

Michigan had a bar passage rate of about 95% (NY, not CA, but still). 14% of Michigan graduates go to CA, so coming back during summers and after graduating is a viable option, and if you ever want to go anywhere else, that door won't be closed to you. The school has alumni at the top of pretty much every major firm all over the country. The only person I know who graduated from there clerked for a district court judge and works for a V25 firm in NYC.

I understand your desire to limit debt and stay close to your family. But GGU is not a viable alternative for a legal education. You will accomplish the same things by not going to law school at all (and not lose three years' salary), if those two factors are so important to you. If what you actually want is to get a good legal education and a good job after graduation, go to Michigan.

vivian3909
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Re: Choosing Tier 4 over t14. Should I do it?

Postby vivian3909 » Wed Feb 15, 2012 11:59 pm

Thanks for all the feedback everyone. I have other options like USF w/ 25k but I'm only seriously considering Mich because its a T14 (and looks like Hogwarts) and GGU because I'll be debt free. I would rather stay in SF and if I could become a lawyer, 30k salary would be fine, after GGU, I'll do it. Still waiting for Boalt. I'm not that big of a splitter that's a long shot w/ my gpa.

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Re: Choosing Tier 4 over t14. Should I do it?

Postby Doorkeeper » Thu Feb 16, 2012 12:04 am

vivian3909 wrote:Thanks for all the feedback everyone. I have other options like USF w/ 25k but I'm only seriously considering Mich because its a T14 (and looks like Hogwarts) and GGU because I'll be debt free. I would rather stay in SF and if I could become a lawyer, 30k salary would be fine, after GGU, I'll do it. Still waiting for Boalt. I'm not that big of a splitter that's a long shot w/ my gpa.


Did you apply to Davis? UCLA? Hastings? Something in between Michigan and GGU that you can get money from?

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Re: Choosing Tier 4 over t14. Should I do it?

Postby sunynp » Thu Feb 16, 2012 12:04 am

vivian3909 wrote:Thanks for all the feedback everyone. I have other options like USF w/ 25k but I'm only seriously considering Mich because its a T14 (and looks like Hogwarts) and GGU because I'll be debt free. I would rather stay in SF and if I could become a lawyer, 30k salary would be fine, after GGU, I'll do it. Still waiting for Boalt. I'm not that big of a splitter that's a long shot w/ my gpa.

I still don't understand your thinking. You are aiming so low. Actually, this is depressing me. If we can't help convince someone to not go to one of the worst schools in the entire country, then what is the point in even answering questions.

vivian3909
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Re: Choosing Tier 4 over t14. Should I do it?

Postby vivian3909 » Thu Feb 16, 2012 12:06 am

I read that article as well. The 1st year would still be free, however, and if I go and get bad grades, worst that could happen is that I drop law (which I probably would want to do anyways if I'm failing).

Lincoln wrote:If you're serious about this question, and not a troll, as I posted earlier, I guess it merits a response.

Golden Gate has in the past had their accreditation put on probation by the ABA, was recently sued in a class action for allegedly falsifying employment data, is famous for gaming their students out of scholarships (see http://abovethelaw.com/2011/04/quote-of-the-day-law-school-scholarship-funny-money/), and has a bar passage rate somewhere in the 50% range, with a median starting salary of $60,000 (assuming that data isn't actually falsified). There are at least 10 schools in California that place better into SF law firms that GGU. The only person I know who graduated from there has a "solo practice" and lives with his parents.

Michigan had a bar passage rate of about 95% (NY, not CA, but still). 14% of Michigan graduates go to CA, so coming back during summers and after graduating is a viable option, and if you ever want to go anywhere else, that door won't be closed to you. The school has alumni at the top of pretty much every major firm all over the country. The only person I know who graduated from there clerked for a district court judge and works for a V25 firm in NYC.

I understand your desire to limit debt and stay close to your family. But GGU is not a viable alternative for a legal education. You will accomplish the same things by not going to law school at all (and not lose three years' salary), if those two factors are so important to you. If what you actually want is to get a good legal education and a good job after graduation, go to Michigan.

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NYC Law
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Re: Choosing Tier 4 over t14. Should I do it?

Postby NYC Law » Thu Feb 16, 2012 12:08 am

Please, please, please DO NOT GO TO GGU.

GGU is a pariah even among T4s. It's one of the worst schools out there. You will have just wasted 3 years of your life. If you aren't serious about law, don't really want to go to law school, and just want to waste a little time, then go for it.

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20160810
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Re: Choosing Tier 4 over t14. Should I do it?

Postby 20160810 » Thu Feb 16, 2012 12:09 am

This is so mind boggling it pretty much has to be a troll, but in case it's not, go to Michigan. Why I'm not believing it is that someone who gets into Michigan would have had a full ride at schools a good sight better than GGU (Santa Clara and USF come to mind).

vivian3909
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Re: Choosing Tier 4 over t14. Should I do it?

Postby vivian3909 » Thu Feb 16, 2012 12:09 am

GGU is ranked 114 (above Cooley I guess) but it's at least accredited. What's more depressing is that ppl graduate from law to wait tables or not even find a job.

sunynp wrote:
vivian3909 wrote:Thanks for all the feedback everyone. I have other options like USF w/ 25k but I'm only seriously considering Mich because its a T14 (and looks like Hogwarts) and GGU because I'll be debt free. I would rather stay in SF and if I could become a lawyer, 30k salary would be fine, after GGU, I'll do it. Still waiting for Boalt. I'm not that big of a splitter that's a long shot w/ my gpa.

I still don't understand your thinking. You are aiming so low. Actually, this is depressing me. If we can't help convince someone to not go to one of the worst schools in the entire country, then what is the point in even answering questions.

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NYC Law
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Re: Choosing Tier 4 over t14. Should I do it?

Postby NYC Law » Thu Feb 16, 2012 12:10 am

vivian3909 wrote:I read that article as well. The 1st year would still be free, however, and if I go and get bad grades, worst that could happen is that I drop law (which I probably would want to do anyways if I'm failing).

Lincoln wrote:If you're serious about this question, and not a troll, as I posted earlier, I guess it merits a response.

Golden Gate has in the past had their accreditation put on probation by the ABA, was recently sued in a class action for allegedly falsifying employment data, is famous for gaming their students out of scholarships (see http://abovethelaw.com/2011/04/quote-of-the-day-law-school-scholarship-funny-money/), and has a bar passage rate somewhere in the 50% range, with a median starting salary of $60,000 (assuming that data isn't actually falsified). There are at least 10 schools in California that place better into SF law firms that GGU. The only person I know who graduated from there has a "solo practice" and lives with his parents.

Michigan had a bar passage rate of about 95% (NY, not CA, but still). 14% of Michigan graduates go to CA, so coming back during summers and after graduating is a viable option, and if you ever want to go anywhere else, that door won't be closed to you. The school has alumni at the top of pretty much every major firm all over the country. The only person I know who graduated from there clerked for a district court judge and works for a V25 firm in NYC.

I understand your desire to limit debt and stay close to your family. But GGU is not a viable alternative for a legal education. You will accomplish the same things by not going to law school at all (and not lose three years' salary), if those two factors are so important to you. If what you actually want is to get a good legal education and a good job after graduation, go to Michigan.


At most TTTTs the median is very low (like 2.5-2.8.), the stip is 3.0 I believe. So to lose the scholarship you don't have to be 'failing', you can be above median and still lose it.
Last edited by NYC Law on Thu Feb 16, 2012 12:12 am, edited 1 time in total.

vivian3909
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Re: Choosing Tier 4 over t14. Should I do it?

Postby vivian3909 » Thu Feb 16, 2012 12:11 am

25k at USF so still need to shell out over 10k per year.

SBL wrote:This is so mind boggling it pretty much has to be a troll, but in case it's not, go to Michigan. Why I'm not believing it is that someone who gets into Michigan would have had a full ride at schools a good sight better than GGU (Santa Clara and USF come to mind).

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20160810
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Re: Choosing Tier 4 over t14. Should I do it?

Postby 20160810 » Thu Feb 16, 2012 12:11 am

vivian3909 wrote:GGU is ranked 114 (above Cooley I guess) but it's at least accredited. What's more depressing is that ppl graduate from law to wait tables or not even find a job.

sunynp wrote:
vivian3909 wrote:Thanks for all the feedback everyone. I have other options like USF w/ 25k but I'm only seriously considering Mich because its a T14 (and looks like Hogwarts) and GGU because I'll be debt free. I would rather stay in SF and if I could become a lawyer, 30k salary would be fine, after GGU, I'll do it. Still waiting for Boalt. I'm not that big of a splitter that's a long shot w/ my gpa.

I still don't understand your thinking. You are aiming so low. Actually, this is depressing me. If we can't help convince someone to not go to one of the worst schools in the entire country, then what is the point in even answering questions.

GGU's ranking doesn't matter. What you need to know is that in the SF market, which is very crowded, it's dead last. You'll always be fighting over the scraps left behind by Stanford, Cal, Davis, Hastings, Santa Clara and USF students, and in this economy, there aren't even enough scraps for the Davis and Hastings students to all find jobs. You will, repeat, will, end up completely boned.

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20160810
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Re: Choosing Tier 4 over t14. Should I do it?

Postby 20160810 » Thu Feb 16, 2012 12:12 am

vivian3909 wrote:25k at USF so still need to shell out over 10k per year.

SBL wrote:This is so mind boggling it pretty much has to be a troll, but in case it's not, go to Michigan. Why I'm not believing it is that someone who gets into Michigan would have had a full ride at schools a good sight better than GGU (Santa Clara and USF come to mind).

Call them to negotiate. Can't hurt. Tell them you're in at Mich but would stay in SF if they upped it to full tuition and threw in a rent stipend.

vivian3909
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Re: Choosing Tier 4 over t14. Should I do it?

Postby vivian3909 » Thu Feb 16, 2012 12:16 am

Already contacted them. They sent me an email about how I have the highest merit scholarship, loans can cover the cost of tuition, there are fellowships and private scholarships I could seek out. It was a very long and thoughtful email but it's still 10k a year for a school ranked 100.

SBL wrote:
vivian3909 wrote:25k at USF so still need to shell out over 10k per year.

SBL wrote:This is so mind boggling it pretty much has to be a troll, but in case it's not, go to Michigan. Why I'm not believing it is that someone who gets into Michigan would have had a full ride at schools a good sight better than GGU (Santa Clara and USF come to mind).

Call them to negotiate. Can't hurt. Tell them you're in at Mich but would stay in SF if they upped it to full tuition and threw in a rent stipend.

masked kavana
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Re: Choosing Tier 4 over t14. Should I do it?

Postby masked kavana » Thu Feb 16, 2012 12:22 am

Yeah USF will not budge I tried negotiating with no luck and received a long email as well.

In regards to your choice I would go Michigan and not look back. The debt will be manageable with their LRAP (which includes private practice as well as PI). The doors that a GGU degree will open pale in comparison.

You only get one chance to go to law school might as well make it the best experience you can :)

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romothesavior
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Re: Choosing Tier 4 over t14. Should I do it?

Postby romothesavior » Thu Feb 16, 2012 12:27 am

This ain't even close.

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Re: Choosing Tier 4 over t14. Should I do it?

Postby 09042014 » Thu Feb 16, 2012 12:34 am

A JD is a JD. Go GGG.

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bk1
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Re: Choosing Tier 4 over t14. Should I do it?

Postby bk1 » Thu Feb 16, 2012 12:49 am

USF is only marginally better than GGU. You shouldn't go to USF even if they paid you. If this were UCD, UCH, UCI, USC, or UCLA it would be a different story. Outside of those preceding schools (as well as Boalt/Stanford), no other CA school is worth attending even with a full scholly.
Last edited by bk1 on Thu Feb 16, 2012 12:55 am, edited 1 time in total.

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sunynp
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Re: Choosing Tier 4 over t14. Should I do it?

Postby sunynp » Thu Feb 16, 2012 12:54 am

OP you are so worried about getting a job that you will go to a terrible school that virtually guarantees you won't have a career. How does that make sense? Because you can go for free? And what is the deal with the stipulations on that scholarship? You haven't answered that question?

I think you would be better off giving up on law altogether and find a different career path. Don't just waste three years of your life.

I'm not saying you have to go to Michigan. Just find other options. If you have to reapply next year, do it.




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