Choosing Tier 4 over t14. Should I do it?

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Dale
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Re: Choosing Tier 4 over t14. Should I do it?

Postby Dale » Sun Feb 19, 2012 9:42 am

Take someone at a T-14, sitting at the bottom 20% of their class, with 150K in debt. . . this has to be the nightmare scenario.

Perhaps the 20% example is extreme, but there is a 50-50 chance you will be one of the 50% below median. Ask anyone at the bottom 50% about their stress level. The "I go to a great school, but my grades are mediocre" path is plenty rocky ITE.

In any event, T-14 or T-something else, put your chips on the table (be it $ vs. time, or both) and roll the dice.

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romothesavior
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Re: Choosing Tier 4 over t14. Should I do it?

Postby romothesavior » Sun Feb 19, 2012 2:06 pm

Dale wrote:Take someone at a T-14, sitting at the bottom 20% of their class, with 150K in debt. . . this has to be the nightmare scenario.

Perhaps the 20% example is extreme, but there is a 50-50 chance you will be one of the 50% below median. Ask anyone at the bottom 50% about their stress level. The "I go to a great school, but my grades are mediocre" path is plenty rocky ITE.

In any event, T-14 or T-something else, put your chips on the table (be it $ vs. time, or both) and roll the dice.

I'm not really following what you're saying here. What are you even advocating here?

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NYC Law
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Re: Choosing Tier 4 over t14. Should I do it?

Postby NYC Law » Sun Feb 19, 2012 2:07 pm

Dale wrote:Take someone at a T-14, sitting at the bottom 20% of their class, with 150K in debt. . . this has to be the nightmare scenario.

Perhaps the 20% example is extreme, but there is a 50-50 chance you will be one of the 50% below median. Ask anyone at the bottom 50% about their stress level. The "I go to a great school, but my grades are mediocre" path is plenty rocky ITE.

In any event, T-14 or T-something else, put your chips on the table (be it $ vs. time, or both) and roll the dice.


As opposed to a 10-90 chance you get a job out of a TTTT?

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hoos89
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Re: Choosing Tier 4 over t14. Should I do it?

Postby hoos89 » Sun Feb 19, 2012 2:08 pm

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Last edited by hoos89 on Fri Jul 04, 2014 12:52 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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buckilaw
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Re: Choosing Tier 4 over t14. Should I do it?

Postby buckilaw » Sun Feb 19, 2012 2:31 pm

Visit both schools, talk to 2Ls and 3Ls, if after that you still want to go to GGU...gl to you.

chiwachiwa
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Re: Choosing Tier 4 over t14. Should I do it?

Postby chiwachiwa » Sun Feb 19, 2012 2:41 pm

Why is someone with a 3.73/171 facing this decision? You should be able to get a full ride at a Top 20, money at Top 14, and at least one admit into CCN. If you're truly as debt averse as you seem, why aren't you going to a Tier 1 California school with a full ride? This makes no sense--has to be flame. If not, least informed person on TLS.

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moneybagsphd
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Re: Choosing Tier 4 over t14. Should I do it?

Postby moneybagsphd » Sun Feb 19, 2012 3:45 pm

Go to GGU, give the Mich spot to someone who deserves it.

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aekea
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Re: Choosing Tier 4 over t14. Should I do it?

Postby aekea » Mon Feb 20, 2012 1:12 am

You'd be okay with making $30,000 a year as long as you have a law degree? I mean, don't get me wrong, I don't think getting a JD is all about money, but why do you want to be a lawyer? The sort of job that requires a JD but only pays $30,000 is going to be absolutely awful. Why don't you consider becoming a paralegal? You can still work in law but probably at a more interesting job with better hours and a salary above $30,000 a year.

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romothesavior
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Re: Choosing Tier 4 over t14. Should I do it?

Postby romothesavior » Mon Feb 20, 2012 1:16 am

aekea wrote:You'd be okay with making $30,000 a year as long as you have a law degree? I mean, don't get me wrong, I don't think getting a JD is all about money, but why do you want to be a lawyer? The sort of job that requires a JD but only pays $30,000 is going to be absolutely awful. Why don't you consider becoming a paralegal? You can still work in law but probably at a more interesting job with better hours and a salary above $30,000 a year.

A 30k/year job would be a pretty good outcome at GGU.

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Dale
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Re: Choosing Tier 4 over t14. Should I do it?

Postby Dale » Mon Feb 20, 2012 1:45 am

romothesavior wrote:
Dale wrote:Take someone at a T-14, sitting at the bottom 20% of their class, with 150K in debt. . . this has to be the nightmare scenario.

Perhaps the 20% example is extreme, but there is a 50-50 chance you will be one of the 50% below median. Ask anyone at the bottom 50% about their stress level. The "I go to a great school, but my grades are mediocre" path is plenty rocky ITE.

In any event, T-14 or T-something else, put your chips on the table (be it $ vs. time, or both) and roll the dice.

I'm not really following what you're saying here. What are you even advocating here?


All about ITE. Big debt and below median grades at a T-14 or Tier-1 could spell disappointment. No debt at a lessor Tier school is compelling, but no job after three years is a [likely] possibility. No advice advocated, just spelling out the obvious pitfalls of the ITE landscape. The risk is considerable, no matter what direction one takes.

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hoos89
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Re: Choosing Tier 4 over t14. Should I do it?

Postby hoos89 » Mon Feb 20, 2012 1:46 am

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vanwinkle
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Re: Choosing Tier 4 over t14. Should I do it?

Postby vanwinkle » Mon Feb 20, 2012 1:51 am

chiwachiwa wrote:Why is someone with a 3.73/171 facing this decision? You should be able to get a full ride at a Top 20, money at Top 14, and at least one admit into CCN. If you're truly as debt averse as you seem, why aren't you going to a Tier 1 California school with a full ride? This makes no sense--has to be flame. If not, least informed person on TLS.

This. How is this person not in at UCLA or USC?

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aekea
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Re: Choosing Tier 4 over t14. Should I do it?

Postby aekea » Mon Feb 20, 2012 2:06 am

vanwinkle wrote:
chiwachiwa wrote:Why is someone with a 3.73/171 facing this decision? You should be able to get a full ride at a Top 20, money at Top 14, and at least one admit into CCN. If you're truly as debt averse as you seem, why aren't you going to a Tier 1 California school with a full ride? This makes no sense--has to be flame. If not, least informed person on TLS.

This. How is this person not in at UCLA or USC?


Didn't apply? Her LSN shows she applied to Stanford, Michigan, Cornell, Duke, Davis, Hastings, USF and GGU. It looks like she applied to Northern California schools and then picked 3 completely random T-14s.

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hoos89
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Re: Choosing Tier 4 over t14. Should I do it?

Postby hoos89 » Mon Feb 20, 2012 2:08 am

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Last edited by hoos89 on Fri Jul 04, 2014 12:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

071816
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Re: Choosing Tier 4 over t14. Should I do it?

Postby 071816 » Mon Feb 20, 2012 2:17 am

hoos89 wrote:
aekea wrote:
vanwinkle wrote:
chiwachiwa wrote:Why is someone with a 3.73/171 facing this decision? You should be able to get a full ride at a Top 20, money at Top 14, and at least one admit into CCN. If you're truly as debt averse as you seem, why aren't you going to a Tier 1 California school with a full ride? This makes no sense--has to be flame. If not, least informed person on TLS.

This. How is this person not in at UCLA or USC?


Didn't apply? Her LSN shows she applied to Stanford, Michigan, Cornell, Duke, Davis, Hastings, USF and GGU. It looks like she applied to Northern California schools and then picked 3 completely random T-14s.


Yeah not the best spread of schools, particularly for someone who claims to be so debt averse.


Yea she done fucked up

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romothesavior
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Re: Choosing Tier 4 over t14. Should I do it?

Postby romothesavior » Mon Feb 20, 2012 2:22 am

Dale wrote:All about ITE. Big debt and below median grades at a T-14 or Tier-1 could spell disappointment. No debt at a lessor Tier school is compelling, but no job after three years is a [likely] possibility. No advice advocated, just spelling out the obvious pitfalls of the ITE landscape. The risk is considerable, no matter what direction one takes.

Yeah I agree, and I think everyone would agree. Law school in general is a risky proposition.

But like others have said, we aren't talking about Michigan vs. UCLA with a big scholarship. That would be a legitimate conversation. We're talking about one of the best law schools in the country, one which results in positive employment outcomes for the majority of the students, vs. a law school that is one of the worst in the country and results in positive outcomes for almost no one. The value of a GGU for the average student there isn't just zero, its probably negative value. Most students would be better off having never gone.

Your point about risk is a valid one. Michigan at sticker is still somewhat risky. But there should be other options on the table (USC, UCLA, etc. with big scholarships) that would be great alternatives for a risk-averse person. GGU shouldn't be on the table for anyone, but especially someone with her numbers.

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hoos89
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Re: Choosing Tier 4 over t14. Should I do it?

Postby hoos89 » Mon Feb 20, 2012 2:33 am

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aekea
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Re: Choosing Tier 4 over t14. Should I do it?

Postby aekea » Mon Feb 20, 2012 2:44 am

hoos89 wrote:Except this isn't even a question of Michigan at sticker. The op got a "nice" scholarship there.


Yes, what's truly absurd here is that OP must have gotten the $67,500 scholarship to make her estimate that Michigan will cost her $40k/year accurate. The majority of people that don't take that offer are going to T6 schools or Penn/UVA with big scholarships. No one is going to GGU.




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