Law Schools In The South

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SnowDude
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Law Schools In The South

Postby SnowDude » Mon Feb 13, 2012 8:22 pm

What are your opinions about the best law schools in the South?

I'm taking a year off before I attend law school (no clue what I'm going to do with my year, though - ideas?). I won't be going to law school until 2013, so I have several months to determine which schools I will apply to. Any suggestions?

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quakeroats
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Re: Law Schools In The South

Postby quakeroats » Mon Feb 13, 2012 8:24 pm

SnowDude wrote:What are your opinions about the best law schools in the South?

I'm taking a year off before I attend law school (no clue what I'm going to do with my year, though - ideas?). I won't be going to law school until 2013, so I have several months to determine which schools I will apply to. Any suggestions?


There's Duke, UVA, Texas, Vandy, and everyone else.

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AreJay711
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Re: Law Schools In The South

Postby AreJay711 » Mon Feb 13, 2012 8:28 pm

quakeroats wrote:
SnowDude wrote:What are your opinions about the best law schools in the South?

I'm taking a year off before I attend law school (no clue what I'm going to do with my year, though - ideas?). I won't be going to law school until 2013, so I have several months to determine which schools I will apply to. Any suggestions?


There's Duke, UVA, Texas, Vandy, and everyone else.


Everyone else being by location, especially for Louisiana.

SnowDude
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Re: Law Schools In The South

Postby SnowDude » Mon Feb 13, 2012 8:49 pm

I could "probably" get accepted to Texas, Vanderbilt, and Virginia. Duke, while appealing, is almost certainly out of my reach. I'm amazed at their graph over at LawSchoolNumbers.com. It's impressive.

That being said, I'm what you might call debt averse. That is to say, I'd rather graduate from lower ranked law school with under $50,000 in debt with no job prospects than graduate from a higher ranked law school with $200,000 in debt and no job prospects.

Maybe I really should have asked what is the most affordable law school in the South.

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cmckid
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Re: Law Schools In The South

Postby cmckid » Mon Feb 13, 2012 9:24 pm

SnowDude wrote:I could "probably" get accepted to Texas, Vanderbilt, and Virginia. Duke, while appealing, is almost certainly out of my reach. I'm amazed at their graph over at LawSchoolNumbers.com. It's impressive.

That being said, I'm what you might call debt averse. That is to say, I'd rather graduate from lower ranked law school with under $50,000 in debt with no job prospects than graduate from a higher ranked law school with $200,000 in debt and no job prospects.

Maybe I really should have asked what is the most affordable law school in the South.


Get out.

SnowDude
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Re: Law Schools In The South

Postby SnowDude » Mon Feb 13, 2012 9:44 pm

cmckid wrote:
SnowDude wrote:I could "probably" get accepted to Texas, Vanderbilt, and Virginia. Duke, while appealing, is almost certainly out of my reach. I'm amazed at their graph over at LawSchoolNumbers.com. It's impressive.

That being said, I'm what you might call debt averse. That is to say, I'd rather graduate from lower ranked law school with under $50,000 in debt with no job prospects than graduate from a higher ranked law school with $200,000 in debt and no job prospects.

Maybe I really should have asked what is the most affordable law school in the South.


Get out.


I'm not a "special snowflake." I'm never going to be employed in "Big Law." I get that. I'm cool with that. Knowing this, there is no reason to take on mortgage-sized debt in student loans, is there? :)

If I could get a full-ride scholarship offer at a lower ranked law school, I would take it. Of course, I've read too many posts both on this forum and others about students who didn't meet their scholarship stipulations and lost them. That's terrifying to me. I would almost certainly drop out of law school if that happened.

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mattviphky
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Re: Law Schools In The South

Postby mattviphky » Mon Feb 13, 2012 9:51 pm

SnowDude wrote:
cmckid wrote:
SnowDude wrote:I could "probably" get accepted to Texas, Vanderbilt, and Virginia. Duke, while appealing, is almost certainly out of my reach. I'm amazed at their graph over at LawSchoolNumbers.com. It's impressive.

That being said, I'm what you might call debt averse. That is to say, I'd rather graduate from lower ranked law school with under $50,000 in debt with no job prospects than graduate from a higher ranked law school with $200,000 in debt and no job prospects.

Maybe I really should have asked what is the most affordable law school in the South.


Get out.


I'm not a "special snowflake." I'm never going to be employed in "Big Law." I get that. I'm cool with that. Knowing this, there is no reason to take on mortgage-sized debt in student loans, is there? :)

If I could get a full-ride scholarship offer at a lower ranked law school, I would take it. Of course, I've read too many posts both on this forum and others about students who didn't meet their scholarship stipulations and lost them. That's terrifying to me. I would almost certainly drop out of law school if that happened.


the better schools have reasonable stips, such as just being in good standing (not flunking out). I get that, not everyone who can get biglaw even want it, but a better school opens up job prospects anywhere. Where would you like to live/practice? I've heard 'Bama does really well if you want to stay in-state.

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whitman
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Re: Law Schools In The South

Postby whitman » Mon Feb 13, 2012 9:55 pm

Duke is hard to get into but not significantly harder than Vandy or Texas OOS. Different sort of admissions than UVA but not easier or harder. UVA wil probably not give you money. Duke is pretty generous.

As to you later question, UNC is a good bet. Bama will throw you money if you're competitive for UVA. UGA is a good bet as well.

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top30man
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Re: Law Schools In The South

Postby top30man » Mon Feb 13, 2012 9:59 pm

What are your numbers? If you really did have the numbers for UVA, you likely would get a decent chunk from Vandy, which is a superb school for the South.

SnowDude
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Re: Law Schools In The South

Postby SnowDude » Mon Feb 13, 2012 10:27 pm

mattviphky wrote:the better schools have reasonable stips, such as just being in good standing (not flunking out). I get that, not everyone who can get biglaw even want it, but a better school opens up job prospects anywhere. Where would you like to live/practice? I've heard 'Bama does really well if you want to stay in-state.

whitman wrote:Duke is hard to get into but not significantly harder than Vandy or Texas OOS. Different sort of admissions than UVA but not easier or harder. UVA wil probably not give you money. Duke is pretty generous.

As to you later question, UNC is a good bet. Bama will throw you money if you're competitive for UVA. UGA is a good bet as well.

I'd be very happy living in any of those states, but especially Alabama. I've visited Alabama on several occasions and I've always enjoyed my time there. I would imagine that scholarship consideration at the University of Alabama is given to Alabama residents. Is that correct or is it equal for all students?

top30man wrote:What are your numbers? If you really did have the numbers for UVA, you likely would get a decent chunk from Vandy, which is a superb school for the South.

I don't want to post my numbers for obvious reasons, but they are sufficient for a decent shot at UVA.

duckmoney
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Re: Law Schools In The South

Postby duckmoney » Mon Feb 13, 2012 10:30 pm

Bama is VERY generous with scholarship if you are above both medians, or if your LSAT is really high. Try to make one of those things happen. They don't distinguish between in state and out of state in this manner.

murray18
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Re: Law Schools In The South

Postby murray18 » Mon Feb 13, 2012 11:12 pm

I can confirm what everyone has said about Alabama's scholarships. With reasonable negotiation you could easily end up with a full ride (if you are indeed competitive for UVA). If you like the state, don't have aspirations for biglaw, and if you have a year to save up, you could possibly graduate with <$20k debt including living expenses. Not too shabby in my opinion.

I would also shoot for Vandy though... better job prospects, and you might still get a decent scholly.

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NYC Law
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Re: Law Schools In The South

Postby NYC Law » Mon Feb 13, 2012 11:23 pm

Pick a state and apply to the state school, that'll be your cheapest option. If you want to practice in FL, apply to UF/FSU, both are very cheap.

Alabama? Apply to Alabama.

Georgia? Emory/UGA, both will likely be very cheap for you.

Also apply to WUSTL and Vandy since both are pretty generous.

But most southern states are very insular, so above all else, just figure out which state you want to work in and apply to the flagship.

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masochist
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Re: Law Schools In The South

Postby masochist » Mon Feb 13, 2012 11:31 pm

Do you want a law school in the South so you can work there? If so, I might think twice about Duke. I love Duke, but it is not a Southern law school. Obviously there are people from Duke who end up working in the South, but far more end up in NY/DC from what I've been told.

Of course, I am a lowly 1L so other Duke people may be better able to speak to this.

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bk1
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Re: Law Schools In The South

Postby bk1 » Mon Feb 13, 2012 11:34 pm

masochist wrote:Do you want a law school in the South so you can work there? If so, I might think twice about Duke. I love Duke, but it is not a Southern law school. Obviously there are people from Duke who end up working in the South, but far more end up in NY/DC from what I've been told.

Of course, I am a lowly 1L so other Duke people may be better able to speak to this.


You're from Duke so I will defer to your knowledge, but I don't think that just because Duke sends most of its grads to NYC means that it doesn't have a great rep in the South. I mean I would imagine it wouldn't help you if you didn't already have ties, but if you did wouldn't Duke be better than other T14's/Vandy?

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NYC Law
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Re: Law Schools In The South

Postby NYC Law » Mon Feb 13, 2012 11:40 pm

SnowDude wrote:I'd be very happy living in any of those states, but especially Alabama. I've visited Alabama on several occasions and I've always enjoyed my time there. I would imagine that scholarship consideration at the University of Alabama is given to Alabama residents. Is that correct or is it equal for all students?


Missed this, but no. I was offered 24k a year I think and I've never been to Bama. I also applied very late and have worse #s than you (Rejected at UVA, WL at Vandy)

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masochist
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Re: Law Schools In The South

Postby masochist » Tue Feb 14, 2012 12:02 am

bk1 wrote:
masochist wrote:Do you want a law school in the South so you can work there? If so, I might think twice about Duke. I love Duke, but it is not a Southern law school. Obviously there are people from Duke who end up working in the South, but far more end up in NY/DC from what I've been told.

Of course, I am a lowly 1L so other Duke people may be better able to speak to this.


You're from Duke so I will defer to your knowledge, but I don't think that just because Duke sends most of its grads to NYC means that it doesn't have a great rep in the South. I mean I would imagine it wouldn't help you if you didn't already have ties, but if you did wouldn't Duke be better than other T14's/Vandy?


There are more advanced Duke people around here who probably have a better idea of the general view of Duke in the South, but I think Vandy might do better in the small markets. Duke has a great reputation, but I think it is not considered "Southern" in the same way as Vandy. I would bet a Duke student who tried to get a job with a firm in some place like Little Rock would face skepticism regarding his or her intention to remain long-term.

On the other hand, Duke would be a great place to go if you wanted to keep you options open re the South. Certainly Duke students end up working in the region so there are good alumni connections, but there are also the connections to NY/DC if you change your mind.

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caputlupinum
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Re: Law Schools In The South

Postby caputlupinum » Wed Feb 15, 2012 12:00 am

I think this is really dependent on the state you want to work. IMO maybe Vandy transcends this idea as people say but i.e. UNC for FL =/= UNC for NC and UF for FL =/= UF for NC.... Don't go to a state school in a state you don't want to practice in... Also for duke look at the NC supreme court justices, and the vast majority of judges in NC they all come from UNC, but this is probably from dukies not staying in state and not being from the state. Does anyone know if Emory does well outside of GA?

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quakeroats
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Re: Law Schools In The South

Postby quakeroats » Wed Feb 15, 2012 3:44 am

masochist wrote:
bk1 wrote:
masochist wrote:Do you want a law school in the South so you can work there? If so, I might think twice about Duke. I love Duke, but it is not a Southern law school. Obviously there are people from Duke who end up working in the South, but far more end up in NY/DC from what I've been told.

Of course, I am a lowly 1L so other Duke people may be better able to speak to this.


You're from Duke so I will defer to your knowledge, but I don't think that just because Duke sends most of its grads to NYC means that it doesn't have a great rep in the South. I mean I would imagine it wouldn't help you if you didn't already have ties, but if you did wouldn't Duke be better than other T14's/Vandy?


There are more advanced Duke people around here who probably have a better idea of the general view of Duke in the South, but I think Vandy might do better in the small markets. Duke has a great reputation, but I think it is not considered "Southern" in the same way as Vandy. I would bet a Duke student who tried to get a job with a firm in some place like Little Rock would face skepticism regarding his or her intention to remain long-term.

On the other hand, Duke would be a great place to go if you wanted to keep you options open re the South. Certainly Duke students end up working in the region so there are good alumni connections, but there are also the connections to NY/DC if you change your mind.


Duke and UVA work as a kind of all-purpose strategy for Southern markets. You'll generally need ties if you want to work in the South, but that applies everywhere. For example, you won't stand a chance at Birmingham firms if you're not from Alabama or don't have some plausible tie to the area, even if you go to an Alabama school. The same applies in North Carolina. Don't go to UNC if you have the option to go to Duke. Just because most of our class wants to go elsewhere doesn't mean we don't place well here. Much of the issue is students coming in with one idea and leaving with another. The same thing happens with public interest work. It turns out that living in New York/DC, doing interesting work, and earning more money is a tempting proposition.

iosborn12
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Re: Law Schools In The South

Postby iosborn12 » Wed Feb 15, 2012 4:15 pm

quakeroats wrote:
masochist wrote:
bk1 wrote:
masochist wrote:Do you want a law school in the South so you can work there? If so, I might think twice about Duke. I love Duke, but it is not a Southern law school. Obviously there are people from Duke who end up working in the South, but far more end up in NY/DC from what I've been told.

Of course, I am a lowly 1L so other Duke people may be better able to speak to this.


You're from Duke so I will defer to your knowledge, but I don't think that just because Duke sends most of its grads to NYC means that it doesn't have a great rep in the South. I mean I would imagine it wouldn't help you if you didn't already have ties, but if you did wouldn't Duke be better than other T14's/Vandy?


There are more advanced Duke people around here who probably have a better idea of the general view of Duke in the South, but I think Vandy might do better in the small markets. Duke has a great reputation, but I think it is not considered "Southern" in the same way as Vandy. I would bet a Duke student who tried to get a job with a firm in some place like Little Rock would face skepticism regarding his or her intention to remain long-term.

On the other hand, Duke would be a great place to go if you wanted to keep you options open re the South. Certainly Duke students end up working in the region so there are good alumni connections, but there are also the connections to NY/DC if you change your mind.


Duke and UVA work as a kind of all-purpose strategy for Southern markets. You'll generally need ties if you want to work in the South, but that applies everywhere. For example, you won't stand a chance at Birmingham firms if you're not from Alabama or don't have some plausible tie to the area, even if you go to an Alabama school. The same applies in North Carolina. Don't go to UNC if you have the option to go to Duke. Just because most of our class wants to go elsewhere doesn't mean we don't place well here. Much of the issue is students coming in with one idea and leaving with another. The same thing happens with public interest work. It turns out that living in New York/DC, doing interesting work, and earning more money is a tempting proposition.


What is everyone's take on what constitutes "ties" to the area? For example at the Alabama open house I told an attorney from a big firm in Birmigham that I went to school in the south (Clemson) and wanted to get back down south and work somewhere that would give me a connection to the law school I attended. I asked her if that would be enough of a tie to Birmingham to be considered or would I just get shot down because I'm a Yankee. She said that I would be fine with that as far as having a tie (obviously I would need to be qualified for the job offer). Not sure if she was just blowing smoke up my rear because it was an open house, but what's everyones feeling on this?

SnowDude
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Re: Law Schools In The South

Postby SnowDude » Wed Feb 15, 2012 6:03 pm

About the ties to the state part. I am a Southerner. However, I'm not sure that I want to stay in my home state. I mean, I like where I live but I wouldn't mind moving somewhere else in the South, at least for a while.

I can crank up my accent, if I need to. :D

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smelltheglove
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Re: Law Schools In The South

Postby smelltheglove » Wed Feb 15, 2012 6:08 pm

quakeroats wrote:
SnowDude wrote:What are your opinions about the best law schools in the South?

I'm taking a year off before I attend law school (no clue what I'm going to do with my year, though - ideas?). I won't be going to law school until 2013, so I have several months to determine which schools I will apply to. Any suggestions?


There's Duke, UVA, Texas, Vandy, and everyone else.

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quakeroats
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Re: Law Schools In The South

Postby quakeroats » Wed Feb 15, 2012 9:16 pm

iosborn12 wrote:
quakeroats wrote:
masochist wrote:
masochist wrote:Do you want a law school in the South so you can work there? If so, I might think twice about Duke. I love Duke, but it is not a Southern law school. Obviously there are people from Duke who end up working in the South, but far more end up in NY/DC from what I've been told.

Of course, I am a lowly 1L so other Duke people may be better able to speak to this.

You're from Duke so I will defer to your knowledge, but I don't think that just because Duke sends most of its grads to NYC means that it doesn't have a great rep in the South. I mean I would imagine it wouldn't help you if you didn't already have ties, but if you did wouldn't Duke be better than other T14's/Vandy?


There are more advanced Duke people around here who probably have a better idea of the general view of Duke in the South, but I think Vandy might do better in the small markets. Duke has a great reputation, but I think it is not considered "Southern" in the same way as Vandy. I would bet a Duke student who tried to get a job with a firm in some place like Little Rock would face skepticism regarding his or her intention to remain long-term.

On the other hand, Duke would be a great place to go if you wanted to keep you options open re the South. Certainly Duke students end up working in the region so there are good alumni connections, but there are also the connections to NY/DC if you change your mind.


Duke and UVA work as a kind of all-purpose strategy for Southern markets. You'll generally need ties if you want to work in the South, but that applies everywhere. For example, you won't stand a chance at Birmingham firms if you're not from Alabama or don't have some plausible tie to the area, even if you go to an Alabama school. The same applies in North Carolina. Don't go to UNC if you have the option to go to Duke. Just because most of our class wants to go elsewhere doesn't mean we don't place well here. Much of the issue is students coming in with one idea and leaving with another. The same thing happens with public interest work. It turns out that living in New York/DC, doing interesting work, and earning more money is a tempting proposition.


What is everyone's take on what constitutes "ties" to the area? For example at the Alabama open house I told an attorney from a big firm in Birmigham that I went to school in the south (Clemson) and wanted to get back down south and work somewhere that would give me a connection to the law school I attended. I asked her if that would be enough of a tie to Birmingham to be considered or would I just get shot down because I'm a Yankee. She said that I would be fine with that as far as having a tie (obviously I would need to be qualified for the job offer). Not sure if she was just blowing smoke up my rear because it was an open house, but what's everyones feeling on this?


It depends on the firm, but it also depends on your competition. They may consider you if you can make a good case as a non-native, but if they have hundreds of people that were born in Birmingham lined up for the position you may be out of luck.

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mmk33
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Re: Law Schools In The South

Postby mmk33 » Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:14 am

If you want the south, and have numbers for UT and Duke, I would at least apply to Wake Forest. They give fee waivers, they have a lot of scholarship money (including full tuition merit), and they are top 40.

SnowDude
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Re: Law Schools In The South

Postby SnowDude » Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:54 am

mmk33 wrote:If you want the south, and have numbers for UT and Duke, I would at least apply to Wake Forest. They give fee waivers, they have a lot of scholarship money (including full tuition merit), and they are top 40.


You think? I'll put them on my list. To be honest, I hadn't thought about Wake Forest until you mentioned them.

How do you get a fee waiver? I mean, a regular fee waiver (not the need based waivers). Do you write the admissions people an e-mail?




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