Thread for those considering WUSTL with $$$ over T-14

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Unagi
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Re: Thread for those considering WUSTL with $$$ over T-14

Postby Unagi » Thu Apr 26, 2012 10:45 am

Made my decision today!
I had offers from NYU (45k), Michigan (37,5k), Georgetown (75k) and Cornell (75k), and I decided I'll take WUSTL's offer (129k).
I have very special circumstances in my life regarding money and combining this with my life goals, I think WUSTL is the best choice and I'm very happy my cycle is finally over!
For the ones that may say I'm crazy: not everyone likes NYC or wants biglaw.

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splitsplat
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Re: Thread for those considering WUSTL with $$$ over T-14

Postby splitsplat » Wed Jun 06, 2012 6:55 pm

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Last edited by splitsplat on Mon Apr 15, 2013 2:59 am, edited 1 time in total.

CanadianWolf
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Re: Thread for those considering WUSTL with $$$ over T-14

Postby CanadianWolf » Wed Jun 06, 2012 7:16 pm

@Split-Splat: With a 170/3.1, Northwestern is a great opportunity. Ask WashUStL for more money; if none is forthcoming, then NU is the better choice for your target markets, but the debt is overwhelming. Unfortunately, I cannot advise anyone to take on that much debt in this economy. Not much help, but at least I understand your problem.

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splitsplat
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Re: Thread for those considering WUSTL with $$$ over T-14

Postby splitsplat » Wed Jun 06, 2012 7:24 pm

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Birdnals
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Re: Thread for those considering WUSTL with $$$ over T-14

Postby Birdnals » Wed Jun 06, 2012 8:05 pm

splitsplat wrote:18k -> 23k -> 30k -> 40k/year, I've already had 3 increases and I'm already getting more money than pretty much everyone with my stats.



...how? And why are you going to law school instead of being a real life version of the Alec Baldwin's character in Glengarry Glen Ross?

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splitsplat
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Re: Thread for those considering WUSTL with $$$ over T-14

Postby splitsplat » Wed Jun 06, 2012 8:30 pm

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Samara
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Re: Thread for those considering WUSTL with $$$ over T-14

Postby Samara » Wed Jun 06, 2012 8:36 pm

splitsplat wrote:NECRO BUMP

WUSTL (120k total scholarship/$75k COA) v. Northwestern (sticker/$275k COA)

Rough estimates for COA.
From California.
I want Biglaw.
7/10 on the debt adverse scale (10 being super debt adverse).
Preferred regions to work in: LA> SF> NY/CHI

I think you're lowballing your WUSTL COA a bit, but regardless... And I'm assuming you have no UG debt?

Wow, that's tough. Are you okay with working in the Midwest? Getting back to CA from WUSTL is not going to be easy. I know there are people who do it, but they have to hustle and have a lot going for them. But if you're okay with Midwestern secondary markets, I think I'd pick WUSTL. $75k is low enough that it's manageable on non-biglaw salaries.

But know that even Chi and NYC are tough from WUSTL. WUSTL's real advantage is in the Midwestern secondary markets, to which you have no ties, so you'd have to get probably top quarter to have the equivalent prospects of someone at (or even just below?) median at NU.

I'm giving up $84k at WUSTL for sticker at NU and would probably still give up $120k, but I'm Chicago or bust, where NU provides a huge advantage.

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splitsplat
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Re: Thread for those considering WUSTL with $$$ over T-14

Postby splitsplat » Wed Jun 06, 2012 8:54 pm

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Samara
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Re: Thread for those considering WUSTL with $$$ over T-14

Postby Samara » Wed Jun 06, 2012 9:04 pm

splitsplat wrote:You might be right about WUSTL COA, and also correct about no undergrad debt. I've always been a "big-town" person and really can't see myself in the Midwest long term. I'm not saying St. Louis is Idaho or anything, but it's definitely not LA/SF/CHI.
So to answer, no, I'm not ok with secondary Midwestern markets :(

Yeah...I mean, going to WUSTL is not a life sentence in the Midwest, but if your goal is primary-market biglaw, the prospects are just so much better at NU. It's hard to say, because I am not very debt averse and I have a LRAP-qualifying job in non-legal field I can reasonably count on if I flame out at OCI. So, for me, I would go to NU. But if you're very debt averse and don't have much of a safety net, maybe WUSTL is the better choice. What's your WE like? Do you have a resume that would at least make you competitive for LRAP-qualifying jobs?

Do you feel like one school or another is a better fit?

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splitsplat
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Re: Thread for those considering WUSTL with $$$ over T-14

Postby splitsplat » Wed Jun 06, 2012 9:15 pm

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Samara
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Re: Thread for those considering WUSTL with $$$ over T-14

Postby Samara » Wed Jun 06, 2012 9:20 pm

splitsplat wrote:WE is pretty mediocre I'd think.
Couple years negotiating liens on behalf of a subpoena company that primarily did workers' comp. And assuming I work until August before school starts, 6 months as a legal assistant for a small firm that does tenant's rights/eviction defense.

Not great, but not bad. It helps to minimize the chance of total debt pwnage at NU. In a vacuum, I think NU is worth sticker for those who want biglaw in a primary market. Is it just debt worries that is making you consider WUSTL or are there other things you like about the school?

woeisme
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Re: Thread for those considering WUSTL with $$$ over T-14

Postby woeisme » Wed Jun 06, 2012 11:18 pm

splitsplat wrote:So to answer, no, I'm not ok with secondary Midwestern markets :(


Then T14 all day every day, except mayyyybe GULC. Maybe.

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rayiner
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Re: Thread for those considering WUSTL with $$$ over T-14

Postby rayiner » Thu Jun 07, 2012 12:43 am

Here is the big thing: secondary midwestern markets may not even be an option from WUSTL since OP is not from the Midwest. Even at NU interviewing at Chicago, I got grilled hard about my ties to the city (I'm from DC). My wife is from the midwest, went to NU, and got grilled *hard* about her ties to Milwaukee when interviewing there. These markets are very insular to outsiders.

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bk1
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Re: Thread for those considering WUSTL with $$$ over T-14

Postby bk1 » Thu Jun 07, 2012 12:45 am

splitsplat wrote:NECRO BUMP

WUSTL (120k total scholarship/$75k COA) v. Northwestern (sticker/$275k COA)

Rough estimates for COA.
From California.
I want Biglaw.
7/10 on the debt adverse scale (10 being super debt adverse).
Preferred regions to work in: LA> SF> NY/CHI


Made a similar choice last year (105k vs 0) and chose NU (for me it was SF > LA > Chi > NYC). My general response is on page 2. If you are seriously okay with ending up in NYC I'd take NU.

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splitsplat
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Re: Thread for those considering WUSTL with $$$ over T-14

Postby splitsplat » Thu Jun 07, 2012 2:56 am

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bk1
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Re: Thread for those considering WUSTL with $$$ over T-14

Postby bk1 » Thu Jun 07, 2012 3:10 am

splitsplat wrote:if you were FUUAARKED, like bottom third at NU... would you be wishing you had taken the $$$?


Whatever my grades, probably not. I'd worked as office staff in smalllaw and midlaw prior to law school. I knew that I didn't want to do the kind of law they practiced if I could avoid it. At a place like WUSTL, that's what a large majority of their grads will end up doing. At a place like NU, a majority (including a decent bit over 50%) will end up doing biglaw. It's a gamble, but a calculated one. NU gives you a shot at biglaw, WUSTL really doesn't (and this is especially true for those without ties to the midwest).

I would also imagine that people towards the top of the bottom 1/3 still have a not horrible shot at biglaw if they go through the 2L SA interview season properly (focus on the least selective markets/firms, mass mail, etc). Though I have not gone through OCI yet.

While there's a chance you miss out on biglaw from NU, there's also the chace that you miss out on a full time legal job at WUSTL, whereas the chance of that happening is much less likely at NU. In the end there's always IBR to fall back on. While it's not great (20 years of debt + tax bomb), at least you know there's a light at the end of the tunnel. It'll still take you something like 6-8 years to pay down your debt coming from WUSTL if you're on a smalllaw salary starting at 40-50k.

I don't think that choosing WUSTL is a bad idea. But I think if you really want to do biglaw then it's worth taking NU at sticker over WUSTL. In the end only you can really choose which risk you are okay with bearing (the financial one or the job one).

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romothesavior
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Re: Thread for those considering WUSTL with $$$ over T-14

Postby romothesavior » Thu Jun 07, 2012 11:23 pm

Really is a personal call. Your odds of biglaw, and Cali, are obviously much higher from NW. Like, much higher. But you're looking at a lot of debt (though 275k sounds ridiculously high, and 75k debt from WUSTL seems a little low). ~150k is a LOT of money. The difference is enormous. If you were one of those unfortunate folks who does strike out, get no-offered, or (most likely) not make it past a couple years in biglaw, you'd be saddled with crippling debt. On the other hand, 100k in debt and median at WUSTL ain't exactly a good situation either.

Regardless of where you go, if you do poorly, you'll look back and wish you had taken the money or higher job prospects. Grass is always greener I suppose.

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sunynp
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Re: Thread for those considering WUSTL with $$$ over T-14

Postby sunynp » Thu Jun 07, 2012 11:52 pm

I think $275,000 for law school in this economy is insane. Just my opinion, and I am really conservative with money, but I think this is an enormous, deal breaker amount of debt. You should not go that far into debt at any school for a chance at a career in law.

Have you calculated how much that will be with interest? Or how long it will take to repay if you do get biglaw? How many years are youlooking at, given that people only generally last a few years in biglaw? What markets will you be targeting?

What if you don't get biglaw? What is your plan? Will you be on ibr the rest of your life? You know that biglaw isn't guaranteed, so you need to consider what happens if you don't make it in biglaw.




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