UT or GULC at sticker vs. WUSTL (114k) Forum

[imadude]

I know this is a very personal decision, but I'm interested to see what people think.

I'm in at GULC and UT, but I doubt I'll get anything meaningful from GULC, and I'm one point below UT's LSAT floor for scholarships. I'm sure I could negotiate a little something at each, but nothing to make it worth it. As far as other schools, I have 114k at WUSTL, 66k at BU and 66k at UCI. I'm from California, and want to end up there eventually, but I'm not dead set on ending up there right away. My savings could pay off the remaining 8k per year at WUSTL, so I would be graduating from a T-20 school debt free, and would have lots more freedom with where I wanted to work.

I was WL'ed at UCLA, will probably get in to USC, and held at NU. Rejected at a few T-10's.

The way I look at it, I can get an almost free JD at fairly prestigious school, find a job wherever a good one comes up post-graduation, and then make a lateral move to somewhere I want to end up for the long term after 3-4 years of working. I know lots of attorneys who have done this.

For those that might endorse UCI, I don't think I'll go there, because I'm not the type of person that wants to "blaze his own trail." I prefer the structure that the already established schools can offer, rather than UCI who says they'll let you start up whatever clinics, clubs, opportunities you want.

Caveat: My other side wants to make sure I go T-14. I think GULC would be an amazing experience, but graduating with ~200k in debt sounds horrible. I have had people tell me that graduating from a T-14 school opens doors that couldn't be opened otherwise, but I don't want to be a slave to debt for the next 15 years. I'm a very good interviewer, have full-time work experience, and am confident I'll find something post graduation. With no debt, I'm free to pursue lots of different opportunities. I'm pretty sure I'm going to go with WUSTL, unless USC/UCLA were to offer a great scholarship, which doesn't seem likely. Thoughts?

TL;DR version: WUSTL graduating with no debt > sticker at UT or GULC?

Edit: Added poll.

[bgdddymtty]

I don't think this decision is a close one. Take the money and run.

EDIT: You should do this as a poll.

[FloridaCoastalorbust]

I would (probably) take WUSTL without debt. Hard to turn down t-14 but you have to be financially realistic here.

[Wart]

WUSTL or UCI, depending on how set you are on working in Cali.

[romothesavior]

My savings could pay off the remaining 8k per year at WUSTL, so I would be graduating from a T-20 school debt free, and would have lots more freedom with where I wanted to work.

WUSTL easily. Gtown is a much better school overall, but we're talking about free here. Unless you get a comparable offer at a better school, I'd take the free degree every day of the week. And like you said, you'll have more freedom to pursue a career that truly interests you, as opposed to being biglaw or bust out of necessity at Georgetown.

[Paul Campos]

That people even think to ask questions like this (or whether they should go to Chicago with tuition and living expenses paid for v. HLS at sticker) indicates they are either (a) very rich; (b) very naive; or (c) both.

[albusdumbledore]

That people even think to ask questions like this (or whether they should go to Chicago with tuition and living expenses paid for v. HLS at sticker) indicates they are either (a) very rich; (b) very naive; or (c) both.

There's nothing wrong with gathering opinions. That's what this subforum is for. Everybody's situation is slightly different. For most people, taking the money is probably the right idea, but why on earth would you not at least ask for some opinions? Also, let's not forget that you have the benefit of hindsight, unlike most of the posters here.

[titan747]

200k of non-dischargeable student loan debt is always a bad decision... WUSTL is the best decision

[msblaw89]

I think a degree from a t 14 is worth gold. Sure, you are going to have to take out loans...just as at least 80% of the class will have to...but your degree is from Georgetown. So long as you don't want to do PI, you will be able to manage the monthly loan payments and you will have better employment opportunities with judicial clerkships, biglaw, gov't etc. Plus, Georgetown is on the list of top 25 law schools with the highest mid-career pay at $188,000. WUSTL doesn't even make the list. Here is the link --LinkRemoved--

Again, maybe you are starting out debt free, but think of the big picture. I believe you will have a larger net worth in the end by going to GULC.

[msblaw89]

Also, if you are REALLY debt averse... negotiate with BU to increase your offer. BU is on the top 25 list as well. If you can get an equal-or close to it- offer from BU I think that is the better option.

[romothesavior]

I think a degree from a t 14 is worth gold. Sure, you are going to have to take out loans...just as at least 80% of the class will have to...but your degree is from Georgetown. So long as you don't want to do PI, you will be able to manage the monthly loan payments and you will have better employment opportunities with judicial clerkships, biglaw, gov't etc. Plus, Georgetown is on the list of top 25 law schools with the highest mid-career pay at $188,000. WUSTL doesn't even make the list. Here is the link --LinkRemoved--

We're not comparing WUSTL and Chicago or something, where the vast majority of the class lands biglaw or some other solid job. And it's not like we're comparing Georgetown to some T3 full ride. We're talking about a full ride with no debt at a pretty good school. Yes, biglaw odds at Georgetown are probably at least 2x higher than WUSTL's, but OP could work for 50-60k and have no loan payments to make. Worst case outcome at WUSTL is probably doing shitlaw, but still having no debt at all. Have fun with 200k of non-dischargeable educational debt if you wind up below median at Georgetown.

And again, OP has basically one option if he goes to Georgetown: work at a big firm. What if he despises big firm work and wants to work at a small firm doing something else? He can't really make that switch because he'll be a debt slave.

[romothesavior]

Also, if you are REALLY debt averse... negotiate with BU to increase your offer. BU is on the top 25 list as well. If you can get an equal-or close to it- offer from BU I think that is the better option.

And I can't believe you are so beholden to this silly list. Yeah, I suppose it is an interesting list in some ways, but I'm not sure what it really tells us.

[Paul Campos]

I think a degree from a t 14 is worth gold. Sure, you are going to have to take out loans...just as at least 80% of the class will have to...but your degree is from Georgetown. So long as you don't want to do PI, you will be able to manage the monthly loan payments and you will have better employment opportunities with judicial clerkships, biglaw, gov't etc. Plus, Georgetown is on the list of top 25 law schools with the highest mid-career pay at $188,000. WUSTL doesn't even make the list. Here is the link --LinkRemoved--

Again, maybe you are starting out debt free, but think of the big picture. I believe you will have a larger net worth in the end by going to GULC.

42% of GULC's 2010 class got either big law or an AIII clerkship, as compared to 22% for WUSTL. If you think that difference is worth $200K in non-dischargeable debt then either you don't understand how debt works or $200K isn't serious money to you.

[msblaw89]

I'm not saying WUSTL is a bad school or anything, but all else being equal a degree from
Georgetown will take you farther assuming you put in the effort you should with your studies. The majority of all t14 students are left with quite a bit of debt... But you will easily make up for it in a few years- assuming you don't do PI.

[Bronck]

I'm not saying WUSTL is a bad school or anything, but all else being equal a degree from
Georgetown will take you farther assuming you put in the effort you should with your studies. The majority of all t14 students are left with quite a bit of debt... But you will easily make up for it in a few years- assuming you don't do PI.

Obviously, all things being equal GULC > WUSTL. But that's pointless for this discussion because all things are NOT equal.

WUSTL is the way to go here.

[msblaw89]

I'm not saying WUSTL is a bad school or anything, but all else being equal a degree from
Georgetown will take you farther assuming you put in the effort you should with your studies. The majority of all t14 students are left with quite a bit of debt... But you will easily make up for it in a few years- assuming you don't do PI.

Obviously, all things being equal GULC > WUSTL. But that's pointless for this discussion because all things are NOT equal.

WUSTL is the way to go here.

Of course this is just my opinion .... But think if this in terms of a business decision. Think of apple and the iPhone Or Microsoft and the xbox... Both projects put the companies in MAJOR debt.... Do you think either one regrets that decision after they made back what they lost in a couple of years and then made crazy profits?

[romothesavior]

I'm not saying WUSTL is a bad school or anything, but all else being equal a degree from
Georgetown will take you farther assuming you put in the effort you should with your studies. The majority of all t14 students are left with quite a bit of debt... But you will easily make up for it in a few years- assuming you don't do PI.

Obviously, all things being equal GULC > WUSTL. But that's pointless for this discussion because all things are NOT equal.

WUSTL is the way to go here.

Of course this is just my opinion .... But think if this in terms of a business decision. Think of apple and the iPhone Or Microsoft and the xbox... Both projects put the companies in MAJOR debt.... Do you think either one regrets that decision after they made back what they lost in a couple of years and then made crazy profits?

This analogy doesn't work at all.

[msblaw89]

I'm not saying WUSTL is a bad school or anything, but all else being equal a degree from
Georgetown will take you farther assuming you put in the effort you should with your studies. The majority of all t14 students are left with quite a bit of debt... But you will easily make up for it in a few years- assuming you don't do PI.

Obviously, all things being equal GULC > WUSTL. But that's pointless for this discussion because all things are NOT equal.

WUSTL is the way to go here.

Of course this is just my opinion .... But think if this in terms of a business decision. Think of apple and the iPhone Or Microsoft and the xbox... Both projects put the companies in MAJOR debt.... Do you think either one regrets that decision after they made back what they lost in a couple of years and then made crazy profits?

This analogy doesn't work at all.

Yes it does. It means you have to think of the big picture here. Okay I am putting this to rest now. Avg starting salary for GULC is 160,000 adjust for taxes and you get 112,000. WUSTL avg starting salary is 95,000 adjust for taxes and you get 66,500. For GULC you start at -200,000, but after 10 years your PROFIT is 920,000 vs. WUSTL of 665,000 with no debt. GULC> WUSTL

[Bronck]

Yes it does. It means you have to think of the big picture here. Okay I am putting this to rest now. Avg starting salary for GULC is 160,000 adjust for taxes and you get 112,000. WUSTL avg starting salary is 95,000 adjust for taxes and you get 66,500. For GULC you start at -200,000, but after 10 years your PROFIT is 920,000 vs. WUSTL of 665,000 with no debt. GULC> WUSTL

There is so much wrong with this post.

[msblaw89]

Yes it does. It means you have to think of the big picture here. Okay I am putting this to rest now. Avg starting salary for GULC is 160,000 adjust for taxes and you get 112,000. WUSTL avg starting salary is 95,000 adjust for taxes and you get 66,500. For GULC you start at -200,000, but after 10 years your PROFIT is 920,000 vs. WUSTL of 665,000 with no debt. GULC> WUSTL

There is so much wrong with this post.

The only disclaimer I will add is PI. If you want PI, go to WUSTL with no debt.

[romothesavior]

Yes it does. It means you have to think of the big picture here. Okay I am putting this to rest now. Avg starting salary for GULC is 160,000 adjust for taxes and you get 112,000. WUSTL avg starting salary is 95,000 adjust for taxes and you get 66,500. For GULC you start at -200,000, but after 10 years your PROFIT is 920,000 vs. WUSTL of 665,000 with no debt. GULC> WUSTL

There is so much wrong with this post.

The only disclaimer I will add is PI. If you want PI, go to WUSTL with no debt.

Your numbers are terrible.

[ralph_pootawn]

the only issue I see with MSBLAW's numbers is she assuming median. In decisions like this I find it best to assume bottom 1/3 and make your decisions based off of that since law school performance can be so hard to judge.

[msblaw89]

the only issue I see with MSBLAW's numbers is she assuming median. In decisions like this I find it best to assume bottom 1/3 and make your decisions based off of that since law school performance can be so hard to judge.

Even then GULC salary would be higher. Again, I'm not trying to start a fight... I just want to offer a different opinion for the person who started this thread

[bk1]

Yes it does. It means you have to think of the big picture here. Okay I am putting this to rest now. Avg starting salary for GULC is 160,000 adjust for taxes and you get 112,000. WUSTL avg starting salary is 95,000 adjust for taxes and you get 66,500. For GULC you start at -200,000, but after 10 years your PROFIT is 920,000 vs. WUSTL of 665,000 with no debt. GULC> WUSTL

1800 posts? Yous trollin.

[msblaw89]

Yes it does. It means you have to think of the big picture here. Okay I am putting this to rest now. Avg starting salary for GULC is 160,000 adjust for taxes and you get 112,000. WUSTL avg starting salary is 95,000 adjust for taxes and you get 66,500. For GULC you start at -200,000, but after 10 years your PROFIT is 920,000 vs. WUSTL of 665,000 with no debt. GULC> WUSTL

1800 posts? Yous trollin.

Considering I haven't even started law school yet? Nor am I likely to go to GULC? Look, it is just an opinion and I am sure that I am not the only one who feels this way.