Top Law Schools

it seems based on data, chicago should be added to the trifecta of HYS. it has higher percentages if biglaw placement, competitive placement in academia/clerkships, and just as strong of a rep in the legal world. i don't see how it can be lumped in to C and N when both of them lag when it comes to clerkship/academia. uChi has better scholars, stronger focus on intellectual discourse, and along with its small class size, it should be at minimum Y>S>H/Chi>CLS>>>N?

Chicago is very good school, but it's not HYS. Hell we literally couldn't find enough people to turn down HYS to come to Chicago for free. Think about that. The school couldn't find 20 people to give $180,000 to in exchange for picking Chicago over HYS.

Go on.

this is a novel theory that is important to law school applicants (and dare I say the entire nationl) and is likely to engender a productive discourse about the relative merits of these schools. I look forward to reading the thoughtful arguments that will be advanced by TLS contributors.

pupperoni wrote:it seems based on data, chicago should be added to the trifecta of HYS. it has higher percentages if biglaw placement, competitive placement in academia/clerkships, and just as strong of a rep in the legal world. i don't see how it can be lumped in to C and N when both of them lag when it comes to clerkship/academia. uChi has better scholars, stronger focus on intellectual discourse, and along with its small class size, it should be at minimum Y>S>H/Chi>CLS>>>N?

I had no idea you were a Leiter alt.

I would think higher biglaw placement would show the opposite of this.

I was just thinking to myself the other day, "You know what we don't have a lot of on TLS? Chicago trolls"

I think Chicago will overtake Columbia in this year's rankings (thanks to the Ruby), but academic reputations change at a glacial pace. CCN will still be CCN.

TaipeiMort, is that you?

Where HYS slaughter CC is in the extremely preftigious clerkship and Big Fed placement (and Big Fed is more desirable and tougher to get than Big Law). CC probably has better Big Law placement than HYS, but only because HYS students have better options.

TemporarySaint wrote:Where HYS slaughter CC is in the extremely preftigious clerkship and Big Fed placement (and Big Fed is more desirable and tougher to get than Big Law). CC probably has better Big Law placement than HYS, but only because HYS students have better options.

Not so subtle anti-NYU trolling

TemporarySaint wrote:Where HYS slaughter CC is in the extremely preftigious clerkship and Big Fed placement (and Big Fed is more desirable and tougher to get than Big Law). CC probably has better Big Law placement than HYS, but only because HYS students have better options.

Not to mention fellowships and academia. According to Reuters, in bad economies and good, Yale has consistently had 72% of students summer in biglaw. Compare to CCN, which has fluctuated significantly through economic turmoil. For people at HYS, biglaw is the default, not the golden ring. The fact that Chicago placed 89% of people into biglaw at the peak of the boom tells you as much about its weakness as its strength.

IAFG wrote:

TemporarySaint wrote:Where HYS slaughter CC is in the extremely preftigious clerkship and Big Fed placement (and Big Fed is more desirable and tougher to get than Big Law). CC probably has better Big Law placement than HYS, but only because HYS students have better options.

Not to mention fellowships and academia. According to Reuters, in bad economies and good, Yale has consistently had 72% of students summer in biglaw. Compare to CCN, which has fluctuated significantly through economic turmoil. For people at HYS, biglaw is the default, not the golden ring. The fact that Chicago placed 89% of people into biglaw at the peak of the boom tells you as much about its weakness as its strength.

This and some Chicago people enjoy dla piper.

IAFG wrote:

TemporarySaint wrote:Where HYS slaughter CC is in the extremely preftigious clerkship and Big Fed placement (and Big Fed is more desirable and tougher to get than Big Law). CC probably has better Big Law placement than HYS, but only because HYS students have better options.

Not to mention fellowships and academia. According to Reuters, in bad economies and good, Yale has consistently had 72% of students summer in biglaw. Compare to CCN, which has fluctuated significantly through economic turmoil. For people at HYS, biglaw is the default, not the golden ring. The fact that Chicago placed 89% of people into biglaw at the peak of the boom tells you as much about its weakness as its strength.

Great point and should be considered whenver employment comparisons are made.

Someone posted a thing recently (unforunately I don't have it bookmarked, but hopefully someone else does for more exact numbers) of academia placement for 2006-08 comparing number of people from each school who applied for positions in academia vs. those who actually got the positions. Yale outpaced everyone. IIRC, Chicago/Stanford/Harvard were roughly equal. Sure there's a ton of other factors at play here, and it would be useful to have this data for a longer period of time, but it's at least something to keep in mind.

The Reuters piece is a really interesting insight into legal hiring. I wish we had data in it from all the t14 schools, especially Stanford and Columbia, so we could better compare. Though like you said there's something to be said for H having a much smaller dropoff than Chicago or NYU had.

Flash wrote:Chicago is very good school, but it's not HYS. Hell we literally couldn't find enough people to turn down HYS to come to Chicago for free. Think about that. The school couldn't find 20 people to give $180,000 to in exchange for picking Chicago over HYS.

Does the Rubenstein really include a $10K per year stipend?

Emma. wrote:

Flash wrote:Chicago is very good school, but it's not HYS. Hell we literally couldn't find enough people to turn down HYS to come to Chicago for free. Think about that. The school couldn't find 20 people to give $180,000 to in exchange for picking Chicago over HYS.

Does the Rubenstein really include a $10K per year stipend?

Yep.

In addition to the private dinners with the dean and the faculty and one with Rubenstein himself. I think the point of the Rubenstein is to let us all know that even when they go to Chicago, HYS students are obviously a level above the rest of us.

I just want to add that fact that Chicago HAS merit scholarships means it's trying to steal "better" applicants, which means there are "better" schools these applicants would otherwise be going.

On the other hand, HYS don't have merit scholarships because they feel they DON'T need to buy anyone "better". But ultimately Chicago is probably better than Columbia and NYU. Maybe it deserves its own tier--T4

Flash wrote:

Emma. wrote:

Flash wrote:Chicago is very good school, but it's not HYS. Hell we literally couldn't find enough people to turn down HYS to come to Chicago for free. Think about that. The school couldn't find 20 people to give $180,000 to in exchange for picking Chicago over HYS.

Does the Rubenstein really include a $10K per year stipend?

Yep.

In addition to the private dinners with the dean and the faculty and one with Rubenstein himself. I think the point of the Rubenstein is to let us all know that even when they go to Chicago, HYS students are obviously a level above the rest of us.

Holy shit. Even the other fancy scholarships like the Hamilton and the Darrow don't pay you $30K to get your law degree.

Emma. wrote:

Flash wrote:

Emma. wrote:

Flash wrote:Chicago is very good school, but it's not HYS. Hell we literally couldn't find enough people to turn down HYS to come to Chicago for free. Think about that. The school couldn't find 20 people to give $180,000 to in exchange for picking Chicago over HYS.

Does the Rubenstein really include a $10K per year stipend?

Yep.

In addition to the private dinners with the dean and the faculty and one with Rubenstein himself. I think the point of the Rubenstein is to let us all know that even when they go to Chicago, HYS students are obviously a level above the rest of us.

Holy shit. Even the other fancy scholarships like the Hamilton and the Darrow don't pay you $30K to get your law degree.

Darrow provides a stipend, no?

Emma. wrote:

Flash wrote:

Emma. wrote:

Flash wrote:Chicago is very good school, but it's not HYS. Hell we literally couldn't find enough people to turn down HYS to come to Chicago for free. Think about that. The school couldn't find 20 people to give $180,000 to in exchange for picking Chicago over HYS.

Does the Rubenstein really include a $10K per year stipend?

Yep.

In addition to the private dinners with the dean and the faculty and one with Rubenstein himself. I think the point of the Rubenstein is to let us all know that even when they go to Chicago, HYS students are obviously a level above the rest of us.

Holy shit. Even the other fancy scholarships like the Hamilton and the Darrow don't pay you $30K to get your law degree.

This is how you pick out the Ruby winners at bar review.

In addition to the private dinners with the dean and the faculty and one with Rubenstein himself. I think the point of the Rubenstein is to let us all know that even when they go to Chicago, HYS students are obviously a level above the rest of us.

What does this even mean?

i think Uchi def deserves to be in the HYS category based on concrete data from current Uchi students.

1. "The only reason there is a T6 distinction is because Chicago refused to adjust its per-student spending calculated for US News until two years ago to be in line with its piers."

- TaipeiMort (Chose Chicago over all other schools)

2. Harvard has a "diluted faculty due to the large class size (unlike Columbia and NYU who bring in practitioners to accommodate huge classes, H brings in less-renowned/pedagogically weak professors), as well as the less-than-stellar placement of the bottom part of the class due to the surplus of Harvard grads.

- TaipeiMort

3. "My wife used to worry that I would flirt at school, until I brought her around campus and she met the girls and realized that there was no chance of me flirting in the world (not to say they are ugly, just that they are chill and respectful)."

- TaipeiMort

4. "People underestimate how bad it is for bottom-half kids at Harvard because of the relative number of below-median kids. At Chicago most I know have a great job lined up. The ones that don't were screwed by bidding strategy or social skills. Anecdotally, I know people at NYU, Columbia, and Harvard that stand below median have had sucky prospects because their schools are churning out over twice the number of grads at Yale, Stanford, and Chicago."

- TaipeiMort

5. "Harvard keeps trying to hide the ball with its constant changes to its grading scale, but their newest system just renames the letter grades. Employers won't be fooled.

And LOL at the idea that you can't guarantee yourself a spot in Harvard's class just through numbers. That diploma mill has made its standards very clear."

-Bildungsroman (got off the waitlist in August and moved from cornell with a 168 LSAT but Uchi was always #1 choice)

6. "I'm not a fan of leiter rankings. I just like schools that place almost all of their students and dont have a diluted faculty. I guess we could ignore empirical evidence and instead assume a school is great because of its carried lay prestige and alumni base instead."

- TaipeiMort

7. "I guess CCN student bodies are mostly comprised of people who are mature enough to handle real grades."

- Bildungsroman

this seems like HYSChi should be credited in this day and age.

This is the weirdest flame I've seen in a while.

.

Emma. wrote:

Flash wrote:Chicago is very good school, but it's not HYS. Hell we literally couldn't find enough people to turn down HYS to come to Chicago for free. Think about that. The school couldn't find 20 people to give $180,000 to in exchange for picking Chicago over HYS.

Does the Rubenstein really include a $10K per year stipend?

I'm unsure if they all do or just some, but definitely some