Penn State v. Seton Hall

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thexfactor
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Re: Penn State v. Seton Hall

Postby thexfactor » Wed Feb 08, 2012 3:40 pm

Isnt the point of attending law school to gain employment? Visiting a law school woudln't help the OP find out more information on skewed employment data.

Thats like telling an individual buying a car for transportation purposes to just look at the OUTSIDE of the car and not check the engine. If you already know the engine is faulty and the main point of you buying a car is for transportation, then why even bother looking at the outside of the car?

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iceicebaby
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Re: Penn State v. Seton Hall

Postby iceicebaby » Wed Feb 08, 2012 3:47 pm

thexfactor wrote:Isnt the point of attending law school to gain employment? Visiting a law school woudln't help the OP find out more information on skewed employment data.

Thats like telling an individual buying a car for transportation purposes to just look at the OUTSIDE of the car and not check the engine. If you already know the engine is faulty and the main point of you buying a car is for transportation, then why even bother looking at the outside of the car?


My point is that you will never know what the true employment landscape is like unless you spoke with EVERY student that goes there and they were honest and open. It would be like opening the hood, looking at the engine but having no clue whether or not the entire thing is put together properly. The OP should look at everything the car has to offer, not just the engine or shiny exterior. He needs to take both cars on a test drive.

Please, you're showing your ignorance here. The OP isn't looking or asking for alternatives, he wants to know Penn State v. Seton Hall. Weigh in on that and stop focusing on me.

barneytrouble
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Re: Penn State v. Seton Hall

Postby barneytrouble » Wed Feb 08, 2012 4:10 pm

iceicebaby, if you are going to insist on being so derogatory towards probably the only people who have been TRULY helpful in your law school admission process you are probably the type of person who actually deserves to have their life ruined with 200k in debt and no decent job to show for it. So go on, ignore away. Be rude. The window of opportunity for you to live your life without any sort of humbleness whatsoever is closing very quickly.

timbs4339
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Re: Penn State v. Seton Hall

Postby timbs4339 » Wed Feb 08, 2012 4:13 pm

iceicebaby wrote:
thexfactor wrote:Isnt the point of attending law school to gain employment? Visiting a law school woudln't help the OP find out more information on skewed employment data.

Thats like telling an individual buying a car for transportation purposes to just look at the OUTSIDE of the car and not check the engine. If you already know the engine is faulty and the main point of you buying a car is for transportation, then why even bother looking at the outside of the car?


My point is that you will never know what the true employment landscape is like unless you spoke with EVERY student that goes there and they were honest and open. It would be like opening the hood, looking at the engine but having no clue whether or not the entire thing is put together properly. The OP should look at everything the car has to offer, not just the engine or shiny exterior. He needs to take both cars on a test drive.

Please, you're showing your ignorance here. The OP isn't looking or asking for alternatives, he wants to know Penn State v. Seton Hall. Weigh in on that and stop focusing on me.


This is a silly argument. Just because the OP cannot have 100% of the information he needs to make a decision on a particular law school doesn't mean it's irrelevant whether he has 75% or 25%. And there is a third option here- OP doesn't have to buy a car right now, he can always take the bus.

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iceicebaby
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Re: Penn State v. Seton Hall

Postby iceicebaby » Wed Feb 08, 2012 4:16 pm

cconcklin1 wrote:I am having trouble deciding between the two, I got more money from Seton Hall but that could be taken away because of stipulatoins in the scholarship. So at this point they are about even in how much I would spend.

Overall which school would be the better choice for a law school?


EVERYBODY... here is the OP. Answer it. Stop telling him or her about options C, D, E, etc. when all he or she wants to know is whether he or she should choose A or B. If you have issues with me, PM me. Otherwise answer the question properly or gtfo.

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Easy-E
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Re: Penn State v. Seton Hall

Postby Easy-E » Wed Feb 08, 2012 4:19 pm

iceicebaby wrote:
cconcklin1 wrote:I am having trouble deciding between the two, I got more money from Seton Hall but that could be taken away because of stipulatoins in the scholarship. So at this point they are about even in how much I would spend.

Overall which school would be the better choice for a law school?


EVERYBODY... here is the OP. Answer it. Stop telling him or her about options C, D, E, etc. when all he or she wants to know is whether he or she should choose A or B. If you have issues with me, PM me. Otherwise answer the question properly or gtfo.


You're not a mod, no one needs to listen to you.


OP - What are your numbers?

barneytrouble
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Re: Penn State v. Seton Hall

Postby barneytrouble » Wed Feb 08, 2012 4:20 pm

iceicebaby wrote:
cconcklin1 wrote:I am having trouble deciding between the two, I got more money from Seton Hall but that could be taken away because of stipulatoins in the scholarship. So at this point they are about even in how much I would spend.

Overall which school would be the better choice for a law school?


EVERYBODY... here is the OP. Answer it. Stop telling him or her about options C, D, E, etc. when all he or she wants to know is whether he or she should choose A or B. If you have issues with me, PM me. Otherwise answer the question properly or gtfo.


That's it. Get the anger out now man, while you still can before your mouth is full of humble pie. You're doin great!

Know what you are talking about or gtfo.

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iceicebaby
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Re: Penn State v. Seton Hall

Postby iceicebaby » Wed Feb 08, 2012 4:44 pm

barneytrouble wrote:
iceicebaby wrote:
cconcklin1 wrote:I am having trouble deciding between the two, I got more money from Seton Hall but that could be taken away because of stipulatoins in the scholarship. So at this point they are about even in how much I would spend.

Overall which school would be the better choice for a law school?


EVERYBODY... here is the OP. Answer it. Stop telling him or her about options C, D, E, etc. when all he or she wants to know is whether he or she should choose A or B. If you have issues with me, PM me. Otherwise answer the question properly or gtfo.


That's it. Get the anger out now man, while you still can before your mouth is full of humble pie. You're doin great!

Know what you are talking about or gtfo.


Says the 0L that is an instant expert on law school... you're a moron.

barneytrouble
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Re: Penn State v. Seton Hall

Postby barneytrouble » Wed Feb 08, 2012 4:46 pm

iceicebaby wrote:Says the 0L that is an instant expert on law school... you're a moron.


Keep it up! Humble pie is in the oven cookin for ya! You can't say we didn't warn you

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Easy-E
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Re: Penn State v. Seton Hall

Postby Easy-E » Wed Feb 08, 2012 4:50 pm

iceicebaby wrote:Says the 0L that is an instant expert on law school... you're a moron.


Genius. An 0L can't possibly know anything about the risks of law school. I mean, it's not like we do any research right? We just go to whatever school accepts us, because as we all know, its 1998 and a law degree is guaranteed bank.

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iceicebaby
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Re: Penn State v. Seton Hall

Postby iceicebaby » Wed Feb 08, 2012 5:11 pm

emarxnj wrote:
iceicebaby wrote:Says the 0L that is an instant expert on law school... you're a moron.


Genius. An 0L can't possibly know anything about the risks of law school. I mean, it's not like we do any research right? We just go to whatever school accepts us, because as we all know, its 1998 and a law degree is guaranteed bank.


No, but 0Ls telling everyone how the legal job market is when most of them haven't ever held a legal job in their life is a joke. You can read and read and read but nothing will tell you how you will turn out after going to x school or y school. You're merely speculating like the rest of us. This is why the OP should decide where they want to go based on visiting the schools and reading legitimate stats and articles instead of listening to 0L trolls that have this holier-than-thou attitude because their stats are better than yours or bitter law grads that think that because they got screwed, everyone did.

If you have nothing useful to say on whether the OP should go to Seton Hall over Penn State or vice versa, then you should stfu.

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Easy-E
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Re: Penn State v. Seton Hall

Postby Easy-E » Wed Feb 08, 2012 5:16 pm

iceicebaby wrote:
emarxnj wrote:
iceicebaby wrote:Says the 0L that is an instant expert on law school... you're a moron.


Genius. An 0L can't possibly know anything about the risks of law school. I mean, it's not like we do any research right? We just go to whatever school accepts us, because as we all know, its 1998 and a law degree is guaranteed bank.


No, but 0Ls telling everyone how the legal job market is when most of them haven't ever held a legal job in their life is a joke. You can read and read and read but nothing will tell you how you will turn out after going to x school or y school. You're merely speculating like the rest of us. This is why the OP should decide where they want to go based on visiting the schools and reading legitimate stats and articles instead of listening to 0L trolls that have this holier-than-thou attitude because their stats are better than yours or bitter law grads that think that because they got screwed, everyone did.

If you have nothing useful to say on whether the OP should go to Seton Hall or Penn State, then you should stfu.



OP should be aware that retaking the test is also an option. You go right ahead with your decisions, I'm sorry everyone didn't shower you with roses and declare that you had made the best choice since the dawn of time.

And speaking of "holier than thou", you're a paralegal. You don't know shit.

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20130312
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Re: Penn State v. Seton Hall

Postby 20130312 » Wed Feb 08, 2012 5:17 pm

emarxnj wrote:And speaking of "holier than thou", you're a paralegal. You don't know shit.


:lol:

barneytrouble
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Re: Penn State v. Seton Hall

Postby barneytrouble » Wed Feb 08, 2012 5:19 pm

iceicebaby wrote:If you have nothing useful to say on whether the OP should go to Seton Hall over Penn State or vice versa, then you should stfu.


And yet, here YOU are...

OP was given useful advice... Just because you are intent on ruining your life despite the warnings doesn't mean you also need to lead others down that road. If you aren't going to do proper research before spewing your drivel, gtfo.

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Mr. Somebody
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Re: Penn State v. Seton Hall

Postby Mr. Somebody » Wed Feb 08, 2012 5:21 pm

FWIW OP also asked this in a later post

cconcklin1 wrote:
romothesavior wrote:Do not got to SH. Are you from Pennsylvania and do you have a huge scholarship? If no to either answer, do not go to Penn State.


I am leaning away from Seton Hall, I have yet to hear a good thing about the school. What is the general feeling about the school?

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iceicebaby
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Re: Penn State v. Seton Hall

Postby iceicebaby » Wed Feb 08, 2012 5:23 pm

emarxnj wrote:
iceicebaby wrote:
emarxnj wrote:
iceicebaby wrote:Says the 0L that is an instant expert on law school... you're a moron.


Genius. An 0L can't possibly know anything about the risks of law school. I mean, it's not like we do any research right? We just go to whatever school accepts us, because as we all know, its 1998 and a law degree is guaranteed bank.


No, but 0Ls telling everyone how the legal job market is when most of them haven't ever held a legal job in their life is a joke. You can read and read and read but nothing will tell you how you will turn out after going to x school or y school. You're merely speculating like the rest of us. This is why the OP should decide where they want to go based on visiting the schools and reading legitimate stats and articles instead of listening to 0L trolls that have this holier-than-thou attitude because their stats are better than yours or bitter law grads that think that because they got screwed, everyone did.

If you have nothing useful to say on whether the OP should go to Seton Hall or Penn State, then you should stfu.



OP should be aware that retaking the test is also an option. You go right ahead with your decisions, I'm sorry everyone didn't shower you with roses and declare that you had made the best choice since the dawn of time.

And speaking of "holier than thou", you're a paralegal. You don't know shit.


Right, because deciding to forgo law school for three years so I can get experience and beef my resume makes me ignorant. At least I worked at a Manhattan V100 and have seen firsthand what it's like out there. But wait, I'm a paralegal! Guess that makes me blind and stupid, huh? Couple of geniuses itt.

Retaking is an option. OP did not say whether or not they would be open to a retake, so they should definitely consider doing so if they are willing and able to retake it.

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Easy-E
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Re: Penn State v. Seton Hall

Postby Easy-E » Wed Feb 08, 2012 5:31 pm

A PM from the future Big Law partner:

iceicebaby wrote:Go f-ck yourself. Not my fault you decided to go straight to law school like a f-cking moron and now you have nothing to show firms when they ask for your resume. Boy you are stupid.


Currently employed at leading state energy consultant, will be two years before law school. Remember that thing called research I mentioned before? I'm sure you're WE will outshine the fact you went to a TTT. Do you plan on just sending these resumes unsolicited?

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iceicebaby
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Re: Penn State v. Seton Hall

Postby iceicebaby » Wed Feb 08, 2012 5:40 pm

emarxnj wrote:A PM from the future Big Law partner:

iceicebaby wrote:Go f-ck yourself. Not my fault you decided to go straight to law school like a f-cking moron and now you have nothing to show firms when they ask for your resume. Boy you are stupid.


Currently employed at leading state energy consultant, will be two years before law school. Remember that thing called research I mentioned before? I'm sure you're WE will outshine the fact you went to a TTT. Do you plan on just sending these resumes unsolicited?


Really mature. I hope you get the banhammer for that.

Way to admit that you are also a 0L that hasn't held a legal job in his life. Also, how am I supposed to do research on you and why would I care? I told you in my thread I had paralegal experience and I think you're a complete joke for using that ad hominem. That faulty logic is going to help you out very well in law school. And seriously, enough with calling SH and Penn State TTTs... you're just making yourself sound like a child.

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Mr. Somebody
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Re: Penn State v. Seton Hall

Postby Mr. Somebody » Wed Feb 08, 2012 5:41 pm

Interesting that Seton Hall has such a low % reporting salary but a relatively high % of full-time JD required employment, 83%, compared to peer schools in other regions - Santa clara for example only 24% confirmed FT JD employment. Is this because of the abundance of shitlaw firms in Jersey and the tristate area?

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romothesavior
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Re: Penn State v. Seton Hall

Postby romothesavior » Wed Feb 08, 2012 6:36 pm

thexfactor wrote:Wow romo really sees the "light now." I remember he was really defensive for me criticizing his decision for attending WUSTL instead of Cornell.

Ice: are you really that ignorant or are you just a troll? Romo is just trying to look out for other people. Stop blasting romo. Go look at some midlaw/biglaw firms in NJ/NY/PA and tell me how many SH or PINN state grads you see. Also let me know if you see ANY associates that aren't Magna cum laude + LR from those schools. Secondly, check NALP for the list of firms that recruit from SH. That should tell you everything you need to know.

Bottom line: is it impossible to get a good job from SH, no. Are the odds HEAVILY stacked against you? YES. If you want to go, just go for 1 year and be prepared to drop out if you are not in the top 15% or 10%. 20-30k for a 10% chance at a good career isn't the worst odds in the world... especially if you majored in english, history, poly sci or psychology.

Romo: i think we should just stop. No one really listens anyways.... there are just too many of them to save....

Hey now, I still love WUSTL. I am admittedly more down about law school in general than I was a year or two ago, but comparing the decision to go to WUSTL with a huge scholarship to the decision of someone to go to Seton Hall (presumably without much of a scholarship?) isn't really a fair comparison. I will have less than half the debt I'd have taken on at Cornell, so I'm content. That said, WUSTL at sticker... not a good idea.

You are right though, people just don't listen. The resounding consensus on TLS among students and alumni is that going to schools like Seton Hall is a bad idea, but the 0Ls gang up on us and tell us we're wrong. It's frustrating.

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Nelson
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Re: Penn State v. Seton Hall

Postby Nelson » Wed Feb 08, 2012 6:49 pm

romothesavior wrote:
thexfactor wrote:Wow romo really sees the "light now." I remember he was really defensive for me criticizing his decision for attending WUSTL instead of Cornell.

Ice: are you really that ignorant or are you just a troll? Romo is just trying to look out for other people. Stop blasting romo. Go look at some midlaw/biglaw firms in NJ/NY/PA and tell me how many SH or PINN state grads you see. Also let me know if you see ANY associates that aren't Magna cum laude + LR from those schools. Secondly, check NALP for the list of firms that recruit from SH. That should tell you everything you need to know.

Bottom line: is it impossible to get a good job from SH, no. Are the odds HEAVILY stacked against you? YES. If you want to go, just go for 1 year and be prepared to drop out if you are not in the top 15% or 10%. 20-30k for a 10% chance at a good career isn't the worst odds in the world... especially if you majored in english, history, poly sci or psychology.

Romo: i think we should just stop. No one really listens anyways.... there are just too many of them to save....

Hey now, I still love WUSTL. I am admittedly more down about law school in general than I was a year or two ago, but comparing the decision to go to WUSTL with a huge scholarship to the decision of someone to go to Seton Hall (presumably without much of a scholarship?) isn't really a fair comparison. I will have less than half the debt I'd have taken on at Cornell, so I'm content. That said, WUSTL at sticker... not a good idea.

You are right though, people just don't listen. The resounding consensus on TLS among students and alumni is that going to schools like Seton Hall is a bad idea, but the 0Ls gang up on us and tell us we're wrong. It's frustrating.

Some of us listen. TLS definitely had a big influence on my decision to retake and it saved me from attending a risky school with a lot of debt. That said even before TLS I knew schools like Seton Hall were a bad idea so...

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stillwater
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Re: Penn State v. Seton Hall

Postby stillwater » Wed Feb 08, 2012 7:09 pm

iceicebaby wrote:
emarxnj wrote:A PM from the future Big Law partner:

iceicebaby wrote:Go f-ck yourself. Not my fault you decided to go straight to law school like a f-cking moron and now you have nothing to show firms when they ask for your resume. Boy you are stupid.


Currently employed at leading state energy consultant, will be two years before law school. Remember that thing called research I mentioned before? I'm sure you're WE will outshine the fact you went to a TTT. Do you plan on just sending these resumes unsolicited?


Really mature. I hope you get the banhammer for that.

Way to admit that you are also a 0L that hasn't held a legal job in his life. Also, how am I supposed to do research on you and why would I care? I told you in my thread I had paralegal experience and I think you're a complete joke for using that ad hominem. That faulty logic is going to help you out very well in law school. And seriously, enough with calling SH and Penn State TTTs... you're just making yourself sound like a child.


Is this a special kind of hammer?

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ganggreen
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Re: Penn State v. Seton Hall

Postby ganggreen » Wed Feb 08, 2012 8:51 pm

romothesavior wrote:
thexfactor wrote:Wow romo really sees the "light now." I remember he was really defensive for me criticizing his decision for attending WUSTL instead of Cornell.

Ice: are you really that ignorant or are you just a troll? Romo is just trying to look out for other people. Stop blasting romo. Go look at some midlaw/biglaw firms in NJ/NY/PA and tell me how many SH or PINN state grads you see. Also let me know if you see ANY associates that aren't Magna cum laude + LR from those schools. Secondly, check NALP for the list of firms that recruit from SH. That should tell you everything you need to know.

Bottom line: is it impossible to get a good job from SH, no. Are the odds HEAVILY stacked against you? YES. If you want to go, just go for 1 year and be prepared to drop out if you are not in the top 15% or 10%. 20-30k for a 10% chance at a good career isn't the worst odds in the world... especially if you majored in english, history, poly sci or psychology.

Romo: i think we should just stop. No one really listens anyways.... there are just too many of them to save....

Hey now, I still love WUSTL. I am admittedly more down about law school in general than I was a year or two ago, but comparing the decision to go to WUSTL with a huge scholarship to the decision of someone to go to Seton Hall (presumably without much of a scholarship?) isn't really a fair comparison. I will have less than half the debt I'd have taken on at Cornell, so I'm content. That said, WUSTL at sticker... not a good idea.

You are right though, people just don't listen. The resounding consensus on TLS among students and alumni is that going to schools like Seton Hall is a bad idea, but the 0Ls gang up on us and tell us we're wrong. It's frustrating.


Well, what's your opinion on full ride Seton Hall + commute from home, graduate with zero debt (I'm pretty debt-averse)? Many connections in NJ. You mention the outrageous price of SH, but what if you eliminate that factor?

I'm not going to say something retarded like "I'm in at a T14 so I'll be at the top at my class at SH", but if I can do top 2% at a fairly competitive undergrad, I don't see why I can't do top 15% at Seton Hall Law...

(apologies to the OP)

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Nelson
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Re: Penn State v. Seton Hall

Postby Nelson » Wed Feb 08, 2012 8:58 pm

ganggreen wrote:Well, what's your opinion on full ride Seton Hall + commute from home, graduate with zero debt (I'm pretty debt-averse)? Many connections in NJ. You mention the outrageous price of SH, but what if you eliminate that

What do you want to do with your JD? If the answer is big law or you have no work experience to help you network, Seton Hall is still a worse option than retaking.

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romothesavior
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Re: Penn State v. Seton Hall

Postby romothesavior » Wed Feb 08, 2012 9:02 pm

Choosing a law school is all about minimizing risk. I don't tell people to avoid these types of schools because of elitism or something like that. If these types of schools were cheap then they would be all right options. So if you are from the area and you have a full ride then go for it. Just make sure you understand your school's limitations and make sure you network. Unless you are in the very top of your class getting a job will take some leg work. Good luck.




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