W&L vs st. John's vs ND

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W&L vs St. John's vs ND

St. John's (full ride no stips)
7
23%
W&L ($15,500 top 70 % of class)
5
17%
Notre Dame (15,000 no stips)
18
60%
 
Total votes: 30

answer23
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W&L vs st. John's vs ND

Postby answer23 » Sat Feb 04, 2012 4:22 pm

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Last edited by answer23 on Sun May 27, 2012 1:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

TB12
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Re: W&L vs st. John's vs ND

Postby TB12 » Sat Feb 04, 2012 4:30 pm

Chances of big law or big fed are pretty minimal at all these schools.

CanadianWolf
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Re: W&L vs st. John's vs ND

Postby CanadianWolf » Sat Feb 04, 2012 4:44 pm

As an AA male with a 160, you should have higher ranked options. To which other law schools did you apply ?

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Grizz
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Re: W&L vs st. John's vs ND

Postby Grizz » Sat Feb 04, 2012 4:58 pm

TB12 wrote:Chances of big law or big fed are pretty minimal at all these schools.

And big law.

If those are your career goals, retake or don't go.

MrAnon
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Re: W&L vs st. John's vs ND

Postby MrAnon » Sat Feb 04, 2012 4:59 pm

85- 90 % percent chance you will never work in biglaw or bigfed graduating from these schools. If those are your goals sit this one out.

answer23
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Re: W&L vs st. John's vs ND

Postby answer23 » Sat Feb 04, 2012 5:36 pm

I know that but I'm also interested in a decent firm job in a mid size firm like Indianapolis or Richmond. I also would love to work in a fed agency FTC, SEC, State ADA, PI. I'm not BIG LAW or bust.

MrAnon
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Re: W&L vs st. John's vs ND

Postby MrAnon » Sat Feb 04, 2012 6:08 pm

it impossible to gauge midsize firm job availability from these schools. Hard to find midsized firms and law schools are generally unclear about who or how many get those jobs. Assume from that last part that there must not be many.

If you have to go to law school I would just go to the school in the area where you want to end up practicing.

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romothesavior
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Re: W&L vs st. John's vs ND

Postby romothesavior » Sat Feb 04, 2012 6:23 pm

answer23 wrote:I don't have any preference for any city. My goal is BIGLAW, BIGFED or a decent firm job. Cost is not that much of an issue because I don't have any undergraduate dept.

If these are your goals, then none of the above schools at those prices is even remotely worth it.

And are you super rich? Parents paying for school? Because if not, cost is a factor regardless of your undergrad debt.

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romothesavior
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Re: W&L vs st. John's vs ND

Postby romothesavior » Sat Feb 04, 2012 6:28 pm

answer23 wrote:I know that but I'm also interested in a decent firm job in a mid size firm like Indianapolis or Richmond. I also would love to work in a fed agency FTC, SEC, State ADA, PI. I'm not BIG LAW or bust.

Also, did you just pull these schools out of a hat? Where do you want to work? If you aren't from the region, good luck getting a job in Indianapolis or Richmond. And as someone with knowledge of the Indy market, I can tell you it is small. Even the biggest firms there only take like 4-8 SAs in this economy.

I mean this with all sincerity and I don't mean this to be rude, but you sound like you don't know much about the legal hiring market. It's cool, we were all in the same boat at one time (and many of my classmates still seem to be clueless about how it works), but you need to do some research before you dive in headfirst. You seem to think that because you're not biglaw or bust, you're fine. You want a "decent firm job" or a job in a federal agency? So do tens of thousands of other law students right now. It's not like if you miss out on biglaw you just waltz into some mid-sized firm and make 80k or go to the SEC. Your goals are completely unrealistic and I think you need to get a better grasp of things before you make the move to law school.

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Grizz
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Re: W&L vs st. John's vs ND

Postby Grizz » Sat Feb 04, 2012 8:15 pm

+1 to Romo, also bigfed is basically not hiring lawyers right now due to budget cuts.

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pugilistjd
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Re: W&L vs st. John's vs ND

Postby pugilistjd » Sun Feb 05, 2012 2:27 pm

ND has a huge alumni network and a national rep. I think the posters on here assume that all non-T14 schools anchor you to a regional market and that's bullshit. Most do though. Take Maurer, for example: That school will definitely anchor you to Indiana with shitty job prospects. Notre Dame had similar numbers compared to Fordham and GW in big law placement last year. They also placed above higher-ranked Wash U. Do you think the folks who got big law out of ND stayed in Indiana? No. Do your research before listening to fellow 0L's and law students who know about as much about the job market as you do.

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Grizz
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Re: W&L vs st. John's vs ND

Postby Grizz » Sun Feb 05, 2012 4:33 pm

pugilistjd wrote:ND has a huge alumni network and a national rep. I think the posters on here assume that all non-T14 schools anchor you to a regional market and that's bullshit. Most do though. Take Maurer, for example: That school will definitely anchor you to Indiana with shitty job prospects. Notre Dame had similar numbers compared to Fordham and GW in big law placement last year. They also placed above higher-ranked Wash U. Do you think the folks who got big law out of ND stayed in Indiana? No. Do your research before listening to fellow 0L's and law students who know about as much about the job market as you do.

ND has a national rep in the sense that you can probably get a job where you have pre existing ties. Maybe a major market if you do super duper well. But that's about it.

Just FYI a TLS NDer on law review just struck out recently.

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romothesavior
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Re: W&L vs st. John's vs ND

Postby romothesavior » Sun Feb 05, 2012 4:44 pm

pugilistjd wrote:ND has a huge alumni network and a national rep. I think the posters on here assume that all non-T14 schools anchor you to a regional market and that's bullshit. Most do though. Take Maurer, for example: That school will definitely anchor you to Indiana with shitty job prospects. Notre Dame had similar numbers compared to Fordham and GW in big law placement last year. They also placed above higher-ranked Wash U. Do you think the folks who got big law out of ND stayed in Indiana? No. Do your research before listening to fellow 0L's and law students who know about as much about the job market as you do.

ND is not on par with Fordham for biglawl placement. It is closer to WUSTL/UIUC. And someone in another thread said that ND just placed less than 5 people in Chicago at OCI. That's their home market, so if that's true, expect ND to get slaughtered in the NLJ 250 list next year. Hell, even WUSTTTL did better than that in Chicago.

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pugilistjd
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Re: W&L vs st. John's vs ND

Postby pugilistjd » Sun Feb 05, 2012 9:50 pm

Grizz wrote:ND has a national rep in the sense that you can probably get a job where you have pre existing ties. Maybe a major market if you do super duper well. But that's about it.

Just FYI a TLS NDer on law review just struck out recently.


That's a cool anecdote. I've got one, too. I know a guy who went to ND, graduated in 2010 and got a job at a big firm in Northern Virginia. But perhaps, he had ties and the TLSer didn't.

romothesavior wrote:ND is not on par with Fordham for biglawl placement. It is closer to WUSTL/UIUC. And someone in another thread said that ND just placed less than 5 people in Chicago at OCI. That's their home market, so if that's true, expect ND to get slaughtered in the NLJ 250 list next year. Hell, even WUSTTTL did better than that in Chicago.


Fordham placed only about 2% more grads than ND last year, but sure, we'll see what NLJ says later this month. I don't think its accurate to say Chicago is ND's home market just because of its proximity considering that they place near the the same number of JDs in Cali and NY. But perhaps, they all had ties to these markets, every single one of them, and this is somehow less of a generalization than saying all JDs get jobs based solely on merit.

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Grizz
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Re: W&L vs st. John's vs ND

Postby Grizz » Sun Feb 05, 2012 9:52 pm

Thanks for your tales of the job market and necessity of ties, 0L.

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skers
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Re: W&L vs st. John's vs ND

Postby skers » Sun Feb 05, 2012 10:01 pm

pugilistjd wrote:ND has a huge alumni network and a national rep. I think the posters on here assume that all non-T14 schools anchor you to a regional market and that's bullshit. Most do though. Take Maurer, for example: That school will definitely anchor you to Indiana with shitty job prospects. Notre Dame had similar numbers compared to Fordham and GW in big law placement last year. They also placed above higher-ranked Wash U. Do you think the folks who got big law out of ND stayed in Indiana? No. Do your research before listening to fellow 0L's and law students who know about as much about the job market as you do.


I wouldn't go to those schools if I were dead set on Biglaw or Big Fed either.

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pugilistjd
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Re: W&L vs st. John's vs ND

Postby pugilistjd » Sun Feb 05, 2012 10:22 pm

Grizz wrote:Thanks for your tales of the job market and necessity of ties, 0L.


Well, you missed the point. Its just as easy to claim that all employed JDs from X school had ties as it is to say all of them were just really super hardworking and intelligent. Both claims are unrealistic. You have do more than provide one cute story to make either convincing.

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Grizz
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Re: W&L vs st. John's vs ND

Postby Grizz » Sun Feb 05, 2012 10:27 pm

pugilistjd wrote:
Grizz wrote:Thanks for your tales of the job market and necessity of ties, 0L.


Well, you missed the point. Its just as easy to claim that all employed JDs from X school had ties as it is to say all of them were just really super hardworking and intelligent. Both claims are unrealistic. You have do more than provide one cute story to make either convincing.

I didn't say all, I said it was very difficult. Which it is. Browse the OCI thread from this year if you don't believe me.

Doesn't change the fact that biglaw and bigfed from these schools are unlikely.

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romothesavior
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Re: W&L vs st. John's vs ND

Postby romothesavior » Sun Feb 05, 2012 11:08 pm

ITT: 0L know-it-alls impart their wisdumb for all of us 2L ignoramuses.

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ndirish2010
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Re: W&L vs st. John's vs ND

Postby ndirish2010 » Mon Feb 06, 2012 3:02 am

Having gone through OCI at ND, don't come here planning on Biglaw for sure. However, it is certainly possible if you can manage to get above a 3.5 1L year. I was one of the few people above that threshold who didn't get a SA and I had 9 callbacks (a statistical anomaly for sure). It will be a lot more difficult if you don't have established ties to a decent market that's not NY/Chicago/LA. In the midwest, it is nearly impossible to get hired without ties to a city.

That being said, your chances for a good firm job out of NDLS are 10x better (or more) than out of SJU. And 15K is not bad.

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pugilistjd
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Re: W&L vs st. John's vs ND

Postby pugilistjd » Mon Feb 06, 2012 2:03 pm

ndirish2010 wrote:That being said, your chances for a good firm job out of NDLS are 10x better (or more) than out of SJU. And 15K is not bad.


This.




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