Should I consider Loyola Law School Los Angeles?

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notaznguy
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Should I consider Loyola Law School Los Angeles?

Postby notaznguy » Thu Feb 02, 2012 1:05 am

I've been studying the LSAT for awhile and I will be taking it for the first time in February. I actually plan on taking it twice because I can (I got a fee waiver so why not). In addition, I'm expecting this time to score a low 160, possibly 160-162 as that's my average PT score.

ASSUMING EVEN IF I RETAKE A 160-162 IS THE BEST I CAN DO, that means the only school that's an option for me is Loyola Law School. I'm born and raised in Southern California so I have ties to the area and I wouldn't consider any school out of state. I'd have to pay sticker.

For the longest time, I've always thought that if I couldn't score at least a 163 and go to a school like UC Hastings or UC Davis, I should just quit law and pursue a Masters in Education and become a teacher or perhaps join the Navy (yes I'm serious about the Navy, particularly via Officer Candidate School). At the same time, these 2 options aren't really "what I really want to do." To be honest, I've always wanted to be a lawyer and it's really the only thing I've known the past 4 years of my undergrad career.

Even if Loyola is the only choice for me, should I still go to law school, even if I know law school is something I've always wanted to do and that I will never be quite happy with myself knowing I chose not to go to law school because I worried about job prospects and the $180k debt? I have no real desires to go into big law, but if I could get a job that starts off with 60k and eventually work my way up to 100k, I'd be super happy. What do you guys think?

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bk1
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Re: Should I consider Loyola Law School Los Angeles?

Postby bk1 » Thu Feb 02, 2012 1:08 am

You'd be super happy with a 60k job and 180k debt?

Financially Sound Idea: Don't end up in 180k debt for Loyola.

You can always decide to go to law school later. It's not like not going now forecloses it to you forever. Work, make some money, maybe save some of it up. At some point maybe you'll go to law school, maybe you won't, either way you'll probably be in a better place then than you would be if you went now.

notaznguy
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Re: Should I consider Loyola Law School Los Angeles?

Postby notaznguy » Thu Feb 02, 2012 1:12 am

bk1 wrote:You'd be super happy with a 60k job and 180k debt?

Financially Sound Idea: Don't end up in 180k debt for Loyola.

You can always decide to go to law school later. It's not like not going now forecloses it to you forever. Work, make some money, maybe save some of it up. At some point maybe you'll go to law school, maybe you won't, either way you'll probably be in a better place then than you would be if you went now.


Well, if I would be able to live at home (which is a possibility because I'd likely get a job in So Cal in the LA area), it wouldn't be too bad. My friend graduated from UCLA law in 2008, works in a small firm and started off with 55k/year, lives with his parents, and has saved a considerable amount of money. He doesn't really buy much though, other than the occasional going out with friends to a restaurant or something and he's just fine. I think he'll pay it off more quickly than one would think since he doesn't really pay for housing, is single, and doesn't spend much on anything.

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Lil Kev
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Re: Should I consider Loyola Law School Los Angeles?

Postby Lil Kev » Thu Feb 02, 2012 1:13 am

Come back when you get a real score.

071816
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Re: Should I consider Loyola Law School Los Angeles?

Postby 071816 » Thu Feb 02, 2012 1:14 am

Lil Kev wrote:Come back when you get a real score.


This. Also, don't pay sticker at Loyola.

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Tiago Splitter
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Re: Should I consider Loyola Law School Los Angeles?

Postby Tiago Splitter » Thu Feb 02, 2012 1:15 am

UCLA is much better than Loyola, and no one graduating from UCLA in 2008 with in-state tuition finished with 180K debt. Understand that you will have much more debt than your friend, with far worse job prospects.

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Grizz
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Re: Should I consider Loyola Law School Los Angeles?

Postby Grizz » Thu Feb 02, 2012 1:17 am

notaznguy wrote:
bk1 wrote:You'd be super happy with a 60k job and 180k debt?

Financially Sound Idea: Don't end up in 180k debt for Loyola.

You can always decide to go to law school later. It's not like not going now forecloses it to you forever. Work, make some money, maybe save some of it up. At some point maybe you'll go to law school, maybe you won't, either way you'll probably be in a better place then than you would be if you went now.


Well, if I would be able to live at home (which is a possibility because I'd likely get a job in So Cal in the LA area), it wouldn't be too bad. My friend graduated from UCLA law in 2008, works in a small firm and started off with 55k/year, lives with his parents, and has saved a considerable amount of money. He doesn't really buy much though, other than the occasional going out with friends to a restaurant or something and he's just fine. I think he'll pay it off more quickly than one would think since he doesn't really pay for housing, is single, and doesn't spend much on anything.

Nothing like going to one of the best law schools in the country to end up living at home. This profession is toast.

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Lil Kev
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Re: Should I consider Loyola Law School Los Angeles?

Postby Lil Kev » Thu Feb 02, 2012 1:18 am

Grizz wrote:
notaznguy wrote:
bk1 wrote:You'd be super happy with a 60k job and 180k debt?

Financially Sound Idea: Don't end up in 180k debt for Loyola.

You can always decide to go to law school later. It's not like not going now forecloses it to you forever. Work, make some money, maybe save some of it up. At some point maybe you'll go to law school, maybe you won't, either way you'll probably be in a better place then than you would be if you went now.


Well, if I would be able to live at home (which is a possibility because I'd likely get a job in So Cal in the LA area), it wouldn't be too bad. My friend graduated from UCLA law in 2008, works in a small firm and started off with 55k/year, lives with his parents, and has saved a considerable amount of money. He doesn't really buy much though, other than the occasional going out with friends to a restaurant or something and he's just fine. I think he'll pay it off more quickly than one would think since he doesn't really pay for housing, is single, and doesn't spend much on anything.

Nothing like going to one of the best law schools in the country to end up living at home. This profession is toast.


Well, it'd be great to still live at home AND get laid. That should factor in. If he can pull that off... well, it can't be that bad.

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Errzii
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Re: Should I consider Loyola Law School Los Angeles?

Postby Errzii » Thu Feb 02, 2012 1:27 am

If making 55k/year while single and living at home with your parents sounds appealing to you then by all means go to LLS.

notaznguy
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Re: Should I consider Loyola Law School Los Angeles?

Postby notaznguy » Thu Feb 02, 2012 1:31 am

Errzii wrote:If making 55k/year while single and living at home with your parents sounds appealing to you then by all means go to LLS.


I know that sounds bleak, but when your other options are to become a teacher making $35k a year with no guarantee of a steady job because I would teach social science OR to join the Navy and be stationed in some other country for 6 months at a time, LLS doesn't look that bad.

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Re: Should I consider Loyola Law School Los Angeles?

Postby 071816 » Thu Feb 02, 2012 1:33 am

Why do you assume Loyola at sticker will be your only option? You haven't even take the LSAT. What's your GPA?

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ilovesf
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Re: Should I consider Loyola Law School Los Angeles?

Postby ilovesf » Thu Feb 02, 2012 1:35 am

Lil Kev wrote:
Well, it'd be great to still live at home AND get laid. That should factor in. If he can pull that off... well, it can't be that bad.

I live at home. It's not very hard to pull off. I guess it depends on the home.

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Lil Kev
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Re: Should I consider Loyola Law School Los Angeles?

Postby Lil Kev » Thu Feb 02, 2012 1:35 am

ilovesf wrote:
Lil Kev wrote:
Well, it'd be great to still live at home AND get laid. That should factor in. If he can pull that off... well, it can't be that bad.

I live at home. It's not very hard to pull off. I guess it depends on the home.


Depends on how squeaky the bed is, to be honest.

notaznguy
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Re: Should I consider Loyola Law School Los Angeles?

Postby notaznguy » Thu Feb 02, 2012 1:39 am

chimp wrote:Why do you assume Loyola at sticker will be your only option? You haven't even take the LSAT. What's your GPA?


Because I don't believe in myself and I honestly think I am stupid. My diagnostic was 138 and after taking a Testmasters course in the summer, I've only been able to hit as high as a 164 on a PT, and it was in the 40s, which means it was inflated. On the more recent PTs, I often screw up on the games because they often included 1 super hard game (Dino game, interns game, mulch and stone). If I did bad on a game, I'd get a 155-156 on the modern LSATs. If I did well, I'd only get 160-161.

I'm not sure how much more I can improve, even if I take another 3-4 months to study in the summer for the October exam. That is why I think LLS at sticker will be my only option.

My GPA is currently 3.66 and I have 2 more quarters left. Hoping to raise it to a 3.68, and by some miracle, a 3.70

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Re: Should I consider Loyola Law School Los Angeles?

Postby 071816 » Thu Feb 02, 2012 1:47 am

notaznguy wrote:
chimp wrote:Why do you assume Loyola at sticker will be your only option? You haven't even take the LSAT. What's your GPA?


Because I don't believe in myself and I honestly think I am stupid. My diagnostic was 138 and after taking a Testmasters course in the summer, I've only been able to hit as high as a 164 on a PT, and it was in the 40s, which means it was inflated. On the more recent PTs, I often screw up on the games because they often included 1 super hard game (Dino game, interns game, mulch and stone). If I did bad on a game, I'd get a 155-156 on the modern LSATs. If I did well, I'd only get 160-161.

I'm not sure how much more I can improve, even if I take another 3-4 months to study in the summer for the October exam. That is why I think LLS at sticker will be my only option.

My GPA is currently 3.66 and I have 2 more quarters left. Hoping to raise it to a 3.68, and by some miracle, a 3.70


Your GPA is fairly solid. Stop selling yourself short. You have a terrible attitude. If you don't believe in yourself nobody else will. Just take the test and if you don't like your score, study and take it again. If Loyola at sticker ends up being your best option, I would recommend pursuing a different career path, but I don't think Loyola with a scholarship, Davis, or Hastings are out of the realm of possibilities (maybe even better schools if you get lucky).

ETA: Also, consider taking a year off after undergrad and working. Could end up helping with admissions and firm recruiting down the line. Just something to think about.

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Lil Kev
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Re: Should I consider Loyola Law School Los Angeles?

Postby Lil Kev » Thu Feb 02, 2012 1:49 am

chimp wrote:
notaznguy wrote:
chimp wrote:Why do you assume Loyola at sticker will be your only option? You haven't even take the LSAT. What's your GPA?


Because I don't believe in myself and I honestly think I am stupid. My diagnostic was 138 and after taking a Testmasters course in the summer, I've only been able to hit as high as a 164 on a PT, and it was in the 40s, which means it was inflated. On the more recent PTs, I often screw up on the games because they often included 1 super hard game (Dino game, interns game, mulch and stone). If I did bad on a game, I'd get a 155-156 on the modern LSATs. If I did well, I'd only get 160-161.

I'm not sure how much more I can improve, even if I take another 3-4 months to study in the summer for the October exam. That is why I think LLS at sticker will be my only option.

My GPA is currently 3.66 and I have 2 more quarters left. Hoping to raise it to a 3.68, and by some miracle, a 3.70


Your GPA is fairly solid. Stop selling yourself short. You have a terrible attitude. If you don't believe in yourself nobody else will. Just take the test and if you don't like your score, study and take it again. If Loyola at sticker ends up being your best option, I would recommend pursuing a different career path, but I don't think Loyola with a scholarship, Davis, or Hastings are out of the realm of possibilities (maybe even better schools if you get lucky).


Agreed. Frankly, if you go into law school thinking you are stupid, you'll be eaten alive.

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bk1
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Re: Should I consider Loyola Law School Los Angeles?

Postby bk1 » Thu Feb 02, 2012 1:49 am

notaznguy wrote:My GPA is currently 3.66 and I have 2 more quarters left. Hoping to raise it to a 3.68, and by some miracle, a 3.70


If you really want law school and a high 160's would be impossible, then I'd suggest delaying graduation if possible so you can get a 3.8.

notaznguy
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Re: Should I consider Loyola Law School Los Angeles?

Postby notaznguy » Thu Feb 02, 2012 2:01 am

bk1 wrote:
notaznguy wrote:My GPA is currently 3.66 and I have 2 more quarters left. Hoping to raise it to a 3.68, and by some miracle, a 3.70


If you really want law school and a high 160's would be impossible, then I'd suggest delaying graduation if possible so you can get a 3.8.


Obtaining a 3.8 would be impossible. It's out of the question for sure. Eh...I don't know about the high 160s thing. I know a few people that went to UC Hastings and UC Davis and they're doing just fine - they're certainly not rich and driving BMWs, but they're doing okay.

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bk1
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Re: Should I consider Loyola Law School Los Angeles?

Postby bk1 » Thu Feb 02, 2012 2:07 am

notaznguy wrote:Obtaining a 3.8 would be impossible. It's out of the question for sure. Eh...I don't know about the high 160s thing. I know a few people that went to UC Hastings and UC Davis and they're doing just fine - they're certainly not rich and driving BMWs, but they're doing okay.


Completely inapposite comparison for 2 reasons:

1. They likely graduated during the boom times which meant that even if they weren't out of control ballers they at least came out in a better position then than they would if they graduated today.

2. More importantly, tuition at Hastings was 20k/year in 2005. Today it is 40k/year. Thus they not only had a better shot at decent jobs, they graduated with far less debt than current grads are looking at.

Not to mention that a few anecdotes doesn't necessarily mean anything.

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romothesavior
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Re: Should I consider Loyola Law School Los Angeles?

Postby romothesavior » Thu Feb 02, 2012 4:06 am

Awful idea at sticker. Can't believe you think taking out 180k+ in loans to make 40-50k and live with your parents is a good idea. Does it sound like a good idea 10-15 years from now when you'll make 70k a year and haven't even paid half of your loans off yet? Also, it bewilders me that you are so naive and narrow-minded that you think your only options are teaching, the Navy, or law school. C'mon man.

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mrmojojak
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Re: Should I consider Loyola Law School Los Angeles?

Postby mrmojojak » Thu Feb 02, 2012 11:35 am

I have to echo that you need a score before you can plan where you're going. I started out with a 150 and towards the end of my studying was scoring 158-161. I ended up pulling in a 166. Schools that I was planning to reach for instantly became my safeties. You never really know what you have a shot at admission and scholarship wise until you have an actual score.

notaznguy
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Re: Should I consider Loyola Law School Los Angeles?

Postby notaznguy » Thu Feb 02, 2012 1:35 pm

romothesavior wrote:Awful idea at sticker. Can't believe you think taking out 180k+ in loans to make 40-50k and live with your parents is a good idea. Does it sound like a good idea 10-15 years from now when you'll make 70k a year and haven't even paid half of your loans off yet? Also, it bewilders me that you are so naive and narrow-minded that you think your only options are teaching, the Navy, or law school. C'mon man.


Well, realistically there's just not that much one can do with a B.A. in History. 99% of the people I know who majored in history either became teachers or lawyers =\ The 1% are people who double majored, so they had history + biology, or + accounting or something.

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romothesavior
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Re: Should I consider Loyola Law School Los Angeles?

Postby romothesavior » Thu Feb 02, 2012 1:57 pm

notaznguy wrote:
romothesavior wrote:Awful idea at sticker. Can't believe you think taking out 180k+ in loans to make 40-50k and live with your parents is a good idea. Does it sound like a good idea 10-15 years from now when you'll make 70k a year and haven't even paid half of your loans off yet? Also, it bewilders me that you are so naive and narrow-minded that you think your only options are teaching, the Navy, or law school. C'mon man.


Well, realistically there's just not that much one can do with a B.A. in History. 99% of the people I know who majored in history either became teachers or lawyers =\ The 1% are people who double majored, so they had history + biology, or + accounting or something.

Going to law school because you have nothing better to do is the absolute worst reason there is. I don't know anyone who did this who doesn't regret it.

Go into sales. Become a manager or a retail outlet or video store or something. Make 30-40k a year with no debt. Far better option than taking out tons of debt for a school like LLS.

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smelltheglove
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Re: Should I consider Loyola Law School Los Angeles?

Postby smelltheglove » Thu Feb 02, 2012 3:04 pm

No!

bingbang1025
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Re: Should I consider Loyola Law School Los Angeles?

Postby bingbang1025 » Thu Feb 02, 2012 9:12 pm

You have nothing to lose by taking a year off after graduating. I know it sounds scary as a senior/junior in college, but trust me - look at my situation.

I was a poli sci major (albeit high GPA at a top-25 school). I was dead set on law school and was scoring in the high 150's. It was really depressing. there was a lot of pressure from my parents to just go to southwestern or to go sticker at loyola or pepp. I was close to giving in. But then i let the feb LSAT pass and pretty much set myself up for taking a year off.

I spent the rest of my senior beefing up my resume by working as a research analyst and by taking courses in excel, etc. I interview well - so take this with a grain of salt - but I landed a job making $80k (worst time in history to graduate, mind you) right after graduating. had never held a real job prior to it.

I decided to give studying the LSAT another try and started going on these forums. I learned about the LGB and LRB, and seriously busted my ass...and I know people say they "study" for the LSAT, but I'm talking about eating, shitting and sleeping LSAT. Getting deep with the questions and getting to a point where I knew the answer before I finished the question. This is from a diag in the 140's. I ended up scoring in the mid/low 160's...now i'm sitting on a $96k scholarship from loyola, money from pepperdine, and acceptances from hastings and *hopefully soon* UCI.

Point of that story: don't sell yourself short. the LSAT can be conquered...but with your diag, i'm gonna tell u right now you're gona have to put in extraodrinary work, but it can be done.

Also - if you get a 162 on gameday, with a 3.7 GPA, you'll get into Loyola with at least $20-$30k anyway, if not more...so I don't know what you're talking about.




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