Harvard law vs duke law

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joemoviebuff
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Re: Harvard law vs duke law

Postby joemoviebuff » Thu Feb 02, 2012 9:39 pm

Duke with the money, especially with ties to a secondary market if you have them.

name of user
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Re: Harvard law vs duke law

Postby name of user » Sun Feb 05, 2012 4:05 pm

MrAnon wrote: Nobody ever graduated from Duke who got accepted to Harvard.


More than one per year, easily.

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acrossthelake
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Re: Harvard law vs duke law

Postby acrossthelake » Sun Feb 05, 2012 4:12 pm

splittinghairs wrote:Tell me how you will be paying sticker at Harvard. You'd have to have saved up alot of money or had a great paying job to not qualify for any aid from H. HYS all provide significant need-based financial aid.

Somehow this smells like another pointless hypothetical.


Considering they count all of your parent's finances until you're 25, and from there a portion, decreasing each year, till you're 29, it's fairly possible you could qualify for no aid and yet not have the money because your parents aren't footing the bill.

I'm undecided. The Harvard name opens more doors/goes further than I had realized until I got here, but I don't really have any point of comparison.

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skers
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Re: Harvard law vs duke law

Postby skers » Sun Feb 05, 2012 4:12 pm

Take the money and run.

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quiver
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Re: Harvard law vs duke law

Postby quiver » Sun Feb 05, 2012 4:25 pm

Everyone who said that it depends on goals is correct.

Biglaw: Duke
Clerkship/Academia: Harvard
Gov/PI: probably toss up (Harvard has a great LRAP but you can't beat a full ride)

Just my opinion but I think it makes sense.

concurrent fork
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Re: Harvard law vs duke law

Postby concurrent fork » Sun Feb 05, 2012 5:10 pm

splittinghairs wrote:Tell me how you will be paying sticker at Harvard. You'd have to have saved up alot of money or had a great paying job to not qualify for any aid from H. HYS all provide significant need-based financial aid.

Somehow this smells like another pointless hypothetical.

A lot more people pay sticker than you would think. HLS has generous income requirements for aid, but this is offset by the fact that the school attributes both of your parents' incomes to you (even if you've been financially independent for years) until you are like 30. So if both parents are working professionals you're probably not qualifying for much aid, if any at all.

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SehMeSerrious
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Re: Harvard law vs duke law

Postby SehMeSerrious » Sun Feb 05, 2012 5:52 pm

concurrent fork wrote:
splittinghairs wrote:Tell me how you will be paying sticker at Harvard. You'd have to have saved up alot of money or had a great paying job to not qualify for any aid from H. HYS all provide significant need-based financial aid.

Somehow this smells like another pointless hypothetical.

A lot more people pay sticker than you would think. HLS has generous income requirements for aid, but this is offset by the fact that the school attributes both of your parents' incomes to you (even if you've been financially independent for years) until you are like 30. So if both parents are working professionals you're probably not qualifying for much aid, if any at all.

What if your parents are divorced or not married? Do they still count both?

That seems like a very... unfair practice to say the least. I'm sure historically it hasn't been an issue for most of their incoming, mostly elite students, but that can really screw some people over.

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Re: Harvard law vs duke law

Postby concurrent fork » Sun Feb 05, 2012 6:17 pm

SehMeSerrious wrote:
concurrent fork wrote:
splittinghairs wrote:Tell me how you will be paying sticker at Harvard. You'd have to have saved up alot of money or had a great paying job to not qualify for any aid from H. HYS all provide significant need-based financial aid.

Somehow this smells like another pointless hypothetical.

A lot more people pay sticker than you would think. HLS has generous income requirements for aid, but this is offset by the fact that the school attributes both of your parents' incomes to you (even if you've been financially independent for years) until you are like 30. So if both parents are working professionals you're probably not qualifying for much aid, if any at all.

What if your parents are divorced or not married? Do they still count both?

That seems like a very... unfair practice to say the least. I'm sure historically it hasn't been an issue for most of their incoming, mostly elite students, but that can really screw some people over.

Yes. As long as you have two living, biological parents, HLS still counts both incomes. The school's justification of the policy is here: http://www.law.harvard.edu/current/sfs/ ... ntres.html

However, it's important to recognize that the HLS program is still quite generous, and if you don't qualify for need-based aid here you probably wouldn't qualify at most other schools (although I am unfamiliar with the Y and S programs so I cannot speak to those).

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acrossthelake
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Re: Harvard law vs duke law

Postby acrossthelake » Sun Feb 05, 2012 10:01 pm

SehMeSerrious wrote:What if your parents are divorced or not married? Do they still count both?

That seems like a very... unfair practice to say the least. I'm sure historically it hasn't been an issue for most of their incoming, mostly elite students, but that can really screw some people over.


Yes. This is the case at the undergraduate level as well. I haven't heard of an Financial Aid program that will only count one, though some may exist somewhere (certainly not at any of the Ivies). They also count stepparents if either parent has remarried. Exceptions are made if you can document that you really don't have relations with one or that a parent is abusive. I was screwed over by this at both the undergrad & lawl skool level, but whatever cuz odds are decent I'm biglawl bound anyway.

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SehMeSerrious
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Re: Harvard law vs duke law

Postby SehMeSerrious » Mon Feb 06, 2012 1:51 am

acrossthelake wrote:
SehMeSerrious wrote:What if your parents are divorced or not married? Do they still count both?

That seems like a very... unfair practice to say the least. I'm sure historically it hasn't been an issue for most of their incoming, mostly elite students, but that can really screw some people over.


Yes. This is the case at the undergraduate level as well. I haven't heard of an Financial Aid program that will only count one, though some may exist somewhere (certainly not at any of the Ivies). They also count stepparents if either parent has remarried. Exceptions are made if you can document that you really don't have relations with one or that a parent is abusive. I was screwed over by this at both the undergrad & lawl skool level, but whatever cuz odds are decent I'm biglawl bound anyway.

No, this is not the case with the FAFSA for undergraduates. You have to claim at least one parent, but if they're not married you only have to claim one, as long as only one or none of them claim you on their taxes. If they both claim you in your taxes, then you have to get that sorted out or you're screwed.

The problem with "documenting" the claim that you don't have relations or that a parent or two is abusive is that you have to have something like 5-6 people testify with notarized documentation that they 100% know for a fact that you have no relations for your parents. I got really fucked over by that. That's really an unreasonable request - how many resources do you think an 18 year old in such a shitty position will have to begin with, and how many of them can get people to risk their legal, documented word for something that's incredibly personal and that only you and your parents would really know about?

If anyone is in this position, I would contact the finaid department, make an appointment with an full-time counselor, and see what the best option you have is. If doubt that is your parents are separated and neither of them claim you in taxes, that you would have to claim both of them - at most you would probably have to claim one, but check with the office.

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SehMeSerrious
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Re: Harvard law vs duke law

Postby SehMeSerrious » Mon Feb 06, 2012 1:53 am

Also, if people wouldn't lie about not getting support from their family, then the people who actually don't get support wouldn't have to deal with this bullshit. So screw you, everyone who lied to financial aid departments to the point that they decided to make sweeping rules about calculating aid.

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acrossthelake
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Re: Harvard law vs duke law

Postby acrossthelake » Mon Feb 06, 2012 2:12 am

SehMeSerrious wrote:No, this is not the case with the FAFSA for undergraduates.


I didn't say FAFSA. I said financial aid, as in what the university offers you besides loans from FAFSA. Private universities often require you submit a separate form with information from both parents. I realize this is somewhat my own wording as I don't really view loans as true aid (you have to pay it back eventually). For example, Harvard is really generous to its undergraduates in terms of grant money, but, again, they count both parents.

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SehMeSerrious
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Re: Harvard law vs duke law

Postby SehMeSerrious » Mon Feb 06, 2012 2:28 am

acrossthelake wrote:
SehMeSerrious wrote:No, this is not the case with the FAFSA for undergraduates.


I didn't say FAFSA. I said financial aid, as in what the university offers you besides loans from FAFSA. Private universities often require you submit a separate form with information from both parents. I realize this is somewhat my own wording as I don't really view loans as true aid (you have to pay it back eventually). For example, Harvard is really generous to its undergraduates in terms of grant money, but, again, they count both parents.

I don't really count the unsubsidized loans as "true aid" either since they offer that to everyone regardless of their financial situation.

But yeah, I'm also talking about what the undergraduate university offers you on top of the FAFSA as well. I guess it varies by university, but I would recommend that everyone push the issue and get an appointment with a financial aid office counselor and explore all of their options before giving up. My financial aid counselor was a complete jackass about it because he made all kinds of assumptions about me when I first met him. Finally, I confronted him with some facts I previously felt uncomfortable disclosing, and brought in some more documentation, then he realized that I was in a pretty critical situation and so he adjusted my aid based on my other parent (neither helps me or claims me and they're separated) and he tried to help me after that. But it sucks that he even had to consider either of my parents, but that's the rule.

Usually, undergraduates who are over 24 (or in some cases 25 or 26) don't have to list parents and can claim independence without documentation, though. At least at some universities. From my understanding, grad schools worked like that as well, but I guess now it depends on the school.

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acrossthelake
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Re: Harvard law vs duke law

Postby acrossthelake » Mon Feb 06, 2012 2:37 am

SehMeSerrious wrote:
Usually, undergraduates who are over 24 (or in some cases 25 or 26) don't have to list parents and can claim independence without documentation, though. At least at some universities. From my understanding, grad schools worked like that as well, but I guess now it depends on the school.


I mean yes it's good advice to negotiate if you can. I definitely negotiated for more money in undergrad than they originally gave me.
All Ivies that I know of require both parents for undergraduate, thus my limiting note up above that there could be schools I don't know about.
At Harvard it's definitely sliding scale for law school re: age starting 25 through 29. I dunno about any other law schools. I didn't look into it much since I'll be <24 when my FA is calculated for all of law school.

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SehMeSerrious
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Re: Harvard law vs duke law

Postby SehMeSerrious » Mon Feb 06, 2012 2:55 am

Same here. There's some funding opportunities I'm applying for, but if all I get is their regular financial aid, then I'm definitely going to see their office and make sure they understand the situation and make sure I get what I reasonably should be getting.

Sorry if this was a derail; resume discussing Harvard vs. Duke.

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bernaldiaz
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Re: Harvard law vs duke law

Postby bernaldiaz » Mon Feb 06, 2012 4:38 am

SehMeSerrious wrote:Same here. There's some funding opportunities I'm applying for, but if all I get is their regular financial aid, then I'm definitely going to see their office and make sure they understand the situation and make sure I get what I reasonably should be getting.

Sorry if this was a derail; resume discussing Harvard vs. Duke.


Would this actually work at Harvard? I didn't think you could negotiate need based aid.

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acrossthelake
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Re: Harvard law vs duke law

Postby acrossthelake » Mon Feb 06, 2012 11:27 am

bernaldiaz wrote:
SehMeSerrious wrote:Same here. There's some funding opportunities I'm applying for, but if all I get is their regular financial aid, then I'm definitely going to see their office and make sure they understand the situation and make sure I get what I reasonably should be getting.

Sorry if this was a derail; resume discussing Harvard vs. Duke.


Would this actually work at Harvard? I didn't think you could negotiate need based aid.


It's not "negotiate" per se. I got my undergrad financial aid increased from $0 in grants, to over $20,000 for the last 3 years (not per year, total). It wasn't like I was going to transfer. They do have wiggle room, and if there's some extraneous circumstance that isn't obvious from your application, and you go in explain, they often have the discretion for it. But that's less negotiate (I have $$$ from this school) and more hey, there are these factors that aren't on the application that should be taken into account.

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Re: Harvard law vs duke law

Postby 005618502 » Mon Feb 06, 2012 12:13 pm

MrAnon wrote:Nobody ever graduated from Harvard and said I wonder what would have happened if I had accepted at Duke.

Nobody ever graduated from Duke who got accepted to Harvard.


This is rediculous, people turn down harvard all the time for University of Texas full ride. So its obvious that it has likely happened from Duke as well.

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Re: Harvard law vs duke law

Postby hasmith » Wed Feb 08, 2012 8:16 am

First, well done on both offers. As someone who chose the money over a higher ranked school (though my higher ranked school was at the bottom end of the T14 and the money was at a decidely non T14 school), I am happy with my decision. I graduated last year, debt free, and am enjoying my current job.

Having said that, if I had been offered admission to Harvard, I am not sure I would have been able to turn it down. Of course, if I were making student loan payments, my outlook may be different. Duke is a great school, depending on what you want to do with your law degree, the choice may not matter in the end. Coming out with less debt is almost always a good thing.




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