Less Discussed(?) Schools

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SehMeSerrious
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Less Discussed(?) Schools

Postby SehMeSerrious » Wed Feb 01, 2012 3:50 pm

Out of the T14, HYSCCN, Berkeley, Michigan, Georgetown, UVa, and Northwestern are the most discussed.

For some reason, these rarely do:

Cornell
Duke
Penn

It's also arguable that Chicago barely gets discussed compared to say Georgetown or Michigan, though it is ranked higher and usually mentioned as really good.

This this a TLS bias? Why is Cornell almost never brought up? Are they any less competitive in certain fields or markets?

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Jaeger
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Re: Less Discussed(?) Schools

Postby Jaeger » Wed Feb 01, 2012 3:57 pm

SehMeSerrious wrote:Out of the T14, HYSCCN, Berkeley, Michigan, Georgetown, UVa, and Northwestern are the most discussed.

For some reason, these rarely do:

Cornell
Duke
Penn

It's also arguable that Chicago barely gets discussed compared to say Georgetown or Michigan, though it is ranked higher and usually mentioned as really good.

This this a TLS bias? Why is Cornell almost never brought up? Are they any less competitive in certain fields or markets?


I would say Penn gets talked about quite a bit. But I would say you're right about Cornell and Duke. Probably because who wants to live in the south (Duke)?

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Nelson
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Re: Less Discussed(?) Schools

Postby Nelson » Wed Feb 01, 2012 4:05 pm

Because

1) TLS is full of splitters and those schools are splitter unfriendly.

2) They are all in undesirable locations (Ithaca, Durham, and Philly).

3) They don't give out big money ala UVA and Mich.

I don't know what you're talking about re: Chicago. This cycle Chicago seems significantly more sought after by the TLS c/o 2015 compared to its NYC peers (esp. compared to TLS c/o 2014).

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Jaeger
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Re: Less Discussed(?) Schools

Postby Jaeger » Wed Feb 01, 2012 4:07 pm

Ithaca is a beautiful place, but if you've never been there, I can see how you wouldn't want to go to the middle of nowhere, NY.

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SehMeSerrious
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Re: Less Discussed(?) Schools

Postby SehMeSerrious » Wed Feb 01, 2012 4:18 pm

What about their job prospects and reputation? For example the fact that NYU has good PI support gets brought up every time the school is mentioned, and certain schools are known for their generous scholarships and aid, while some are known for having a hold on certain markets or for placing well into BigLaw or some other field.

Haven't heard anything about Cornell at all, which is weird, Duke is rarely mentioned except for some posts recommending it (for cost reasons). Penn and Chicago get mentioned but I haven't gotten any impression of Penn except that it does better in NY than some further-away schools, and Chicago is known to be good, but no one ever gets into specifics of focus/field/placement like they do with HYS (unless I just missed those threads, which is also very possible.)

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Grizz
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Re: Less Discussed(?) Schools

Postby Grizz » Wed Feb 01, 2012 4:21 pm

Cornell seldom gets discussed at least partly because it's a one trick pony, that trick being NYC biglaw. It's a pretty good trick, but it doesn't require a lot of discussion.

CanadianWolf
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Re: Less Discussed(?) Schools

Postby CanadianWolf » Wed Feb 01, 2012 4:39 pm

And NYU & Columbia are a bit more desirable for those seeking NYC placement.

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whitman
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Re: Less Discussed(?) Schools

Postby whitman » Wed Feb 01, 2012 4:41 pm

How do so many people have such a bias against the south? An undesirable location? The Research Triangle? Really? The place is gorgeous and full of beautiful women and phds. Seriously, it has the most phds per capita in America. And I honestly don't see any reason why Duke isn't considered part of the MVPB grouping. It was in the top 10 for all of the 1990s, it usually places just as well as MVPB, they have amazing clerkship placement, their class size is small, etc. They don't have as much of a private bias as, say, Penn, or a PI bias as much as Berkeley. They just do everything well. It's also weird that TLS has such a hardon for UVA and, to a lesser extent, Vanderbilt. That makes it seems like it's not really about the location. Chapel Hill > Charlottesville, and most law students live basically equidistant from campus and Chapel Hill (4-5 miles away from each).

Having said all that, I chose Duke over two of MVPB, so you can look at that either as bias or as someone who made a decision based on my thoughts above.

barneytrouble
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Re: Less Discussed(?) Schools

Postby barneytrouble » Wed Feb 01, 2012 4:45 pm

lol you know that the 90s were over a decade ago right?

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whitman
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Re: Less Discussed(?) Schools

Postby whitman » Wed Feb 01, 2012 4:48 pm

barneytrouble wrote:lol you know that the 90s were over a decade ago right?


Yeah, that wasn't even worth including in my email. I guess I just was pointing out that these groupings, which are supposedly based on historical rankings and placement, don't hold up when looking at historical ranking or current placement.

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Flips88
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Re: Less Discussed(?) Schools

Postby Flips88 » Wed Feb 01, 2012 4:49 pm

LOL at saying UChicago is barely mentioned on here.

iamrobk
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Re: Less Discussed(?) Schools

Postby iamrobk » Wed Feb 01, 2012 5:05 pm

whitman wrote:How do so many people have such a bias against the south? An undesirable location? The Research Triangle? Really? The place is gorgeous and full of beautiful women and phds. Seriously, it has the most phds per capita in America. And I honestly don't see any reason why Duke isn't considered part of the MVPB grouping. It was in the top 10 for all of the 1990s, it usually places just as well as MVPB, they have amazing clerkship placement, their class size is small, etc. They don't have as much of a private bias as, say, Penn, or a PI bias as much as Berkeley. They just do everything well. It's also weird that TLS has such a hardon for UVA and, to a lesser extent, Vanderbilt. That makes it seems like it's not really about the location. Chapel Hill > Charlottesville, and most law students live basically equidistant from campus and Chapel Hill (4-5 miles away from each).

Having said all that, I chose Duke over two of MVPB, so you can look at that either as bias or as someone who made a decision based on my thoughts above.

People love UVA because, as nelson said, TLS has a ton of splitters. Likewise, Duke has a pretty hard GPA floor at around 3.5.

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sanetruth
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Re: Less Discussed(?) Schools

Postby sanetruth » Wed Feb 01, 2012 5:31 pm

Not T14, but within the T20 USC is NEVER mentioned compared to everything else. It's weird, it's as if it exists in a black hole.

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johansantana21
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Re: Less Discussed(?) Schools

Postby johansantana21 » Wed Feb 01, 2012 5:33 pm

Grizz wrote:Cornell seldom gets discussed at least partly because it's a one trick pony, that trick being NYC biglaw. It's a pretty good trick, but it doesn't require a lot of discussion.


I agree with you completely (that Cornell is a one trick pony) but I don't think this is the reason why Cornell isn't mentioned much on TLS.

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Bildungsroman
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Re: Less Discussed(?) Schools

Postby Bildungsroman » Wed Feb 01, 2012 5:38 pm

whitman wrote:How do so many people have such a bias against the south? An undesirable location? The Research Triangle? Really? The place is gorgeous and full of beautiful women and phds. Seriously, it has the most phds per capita in America. And I honestly don't see any reason why Duke isn't considered part of the MVPB grouping. It was in the top 10 for all of the 1990s, it usually places just as well as MVPB, they have amazing clerkship placement, their class size is small, etc. They don't have as much of a private bias as, say, Penn, or a PI bias as much as Berkeley. They just do everything well. It's also weird that TLS has such a hardon for UVA and, to a lesser extent, Vanderbilt. That makes it seems like it's not really about the location. Chapel Hill > Charlottesville, and most law students live basically equidistant from campus and Chapel Hill (4-5 miles away from each).

Having said all that, I chose Duke over two of MVPB, so you can look at that either as bias or as someone who made a decision based on my thoughts above.

lol Dook's latest employment numbers make it pretty obvious why a biglaw-obsessed website discusses them less than most other T14s.

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Tom Joad
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Re: Less Discussed(?) Schools

Postby Tom Joad » Wed Feb 01, 2012 5:47 pm

dem GPA floors relative to their peers.

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smelltheglove
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Re: Less Discussed(?) Schools

Postby smelltheglove » Wed Feb 01, 2012 6:46 pm

Notre Dame?

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whitman
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Re: Less Discussed(?) Schools

Postby whitman » Wed Feb 01, 2012 6:48 pm

Bildungsroman wrote:
whitman wrote:How do so many people have such a bias against the south? An undesirable location? The Research Triangle? Really? The place is gorgeous and full of beautiful women and phds. Seriously, it has the most phds per capita in America. And I honestly don't see any reason why Duke isn't considered part of the MVPB grouping. It was in the top 10 for all of the 1990s, it usually places just as well as MVPB, they have amazing clerkship placement, their class size is small, etc. They don't have as much of a private bias as, say, Penn, or a PI bias as much as Berkeley. They just do everything well. It's also weird that TLS has such a hardon for UVA and, to a lesser extent, Vanderbilt. That makes it seems like it's not really about the location. Chapel Hill > Charlottesville, and most law students live basically equidistant from campus and Chapel Hill (4-5 miles away from each).

Having said all that, I chose Duke over two of MVPB, so you can look at that either as bias or as someone who made a decision based on my thoughts above.

lol Dook's latest employment numbers make it pretty obvious why a biglaw-obsessed website discusses them less than most other T14s.


That's pretty sophisticated analysis for a UChicago student.

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bk1
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Re: Less Discussed(?) Schools

Postby bk1 » Wed Feb 01, 2012 7:27 pm

Among other things (that I'm sure have been mentioned):

1. They're smaller schools. So they give out fewer acceptances and get fewer matriculants than their peers. Thus you have fewer people talking about them on TLS.

2. They don't have a special hook for placement (except Duke which has the South, but TLS is not very interested in the South). Penn and Cornell primarily place in NYC (moreso than other non-NYC T14's) so it's not like they have any advantage for a specific region like other schools (CA, Chicago, DC, etc).

3. They don't have a special hook for admissions. Cornell doesn't even do ED. Penn/Cornell are semi-splitter friendly but not extremely so (as opposed NU/GULC/UVA). No special ED turnaround time.

4. They aren't in locations that are particularly large draws (as opposed to the Bay Area/Chicago/DC/NYC).

5. They don't do any scholarship tricks (well Penn does have the Levy). UMich is very formulaic with money and even gives money to ED'ers. UVA tends to spread their money around and seems to give lots of small scholarships so lots of people get $ from them. NU has their new ED program. UVA/NU have given money for people to defer.

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Bildungsroman
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Re: Less Discussed(?) Schools

Postby Bildungsroman » Wed Feb 01, 2012 8:26 pm

whitman wrote:
Bildungsroman wrote:
whitman wrote:How do so many people have such a bias against the south? An undesirable location? The Research Triangle? Really? The place is gorgeous and full of beautiful women and phds. Seriously, it has the most phds per capita in America. And I honestly don't see any reason why Duke isn't considered part of the MVPB grouping. It was in the top 10 for all of the 1990s, it usually places just as well as MVPB, they have amazing clerkship placement, their class size is small, etc. They don't have as much of a private bias as, say, Penn, or a PI bias as much as Berkeley. They just do everything well. It's also weird that TLS has such a hardon for UVA and, to a lesser extent, Vanderbilt. That makes it seems like it's not really about the location. Chapel Hill > Charlottesville, and most law students live basically equidistant from campus and Chapel Hill (4-5 miles away from each).

Having said all that, I chose Duke over two of MVPB, so you can look at that either as bias or as someone who made a decision based on my thoughts above.

lol Dook's latest employment numbers make it pretty obvious why a biglaw-obsessed website discusses them less than most other T14s.


That's pretty sophisticated analysis for a UChicago student.

Well, your contention that "[t]hey just do everything well" is inaccurate. Sorry I'm not sorry.

Also, "most phds per capita in America" is a pretty meaningless statement without explaining the metrics or providing a source. Literally 2 minutes of googling has led to claims that the city with the most PhDs per capita is Boston, La Jolla, Los Alamos, or Boulder.

barneytrouble
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Re: Less Discussed(?) Schools

Postby barneytrouble » Wed Feb 01, 2012 8:45 pm

What are Dukes latest employment numbers??

And not that it justifies the rest of his flawed argument at all, but Research Triangle IS one of the coolest places on the east coast. It is basically Silicon Valley East.

iamrobk
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Re: Less Discussed(?) Schools

Postby iamrobk » Wed Feb 01, 2012 8:47 pm

barneytrouble wrote:What are Dukes latest employment numbers??

And not that it justifies the rest of his flawed argument at all, but Research Triangle IS one of the coolest places on the east coast. It is basically Silicon Valley East.

http://www.law.duke.edu/career/employmentdata

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Bildungsroman
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Re: Less Discussed(?) Schools

Postby Bildungsroman » Wed Feb 01, 2012 8:51 pm

barneytrouble wrote:What are Dukes latest employment numbers??

And not that it justifies the rest of his flawed argument at all, but Research Triangle IS one of the coolest places on the east coast. It is basically Silicon Valley East.

Relevant: http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNL ... slreturn=1

And I never denied that Duke may be in a cool location. You just seem to be overselling it a bit.

lawyerwannabe
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Re: Less Discussed(?) Schools

Postby lawyerwannabe » Wed Feb 01, 2012 9:13 pm

Bildungsroman wrote:
barneytrouble wrote:What are Dukes latest employment numbers??

And not that it justifies the rest of his flawed argument at all, but Research Triangle IS one of the coolest places on the east coast. It is basically Silicon Valley East.

Relevant: http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNL ... slreturn=1

And I never denied that Duke may be in a cool location. You just seem to be overselling it a bit.


The class of 2013 (summering this class) placed 55 - 60% of the class into V100.

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johansantana21
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Re: Less Discussed(?) Schools

Postby johansantana21 » Wed Feb 01, 2012 9:15 pm

lawyerwannabe wrote:
Bildungsroman wrote:
barneytrouble wrote:What are Dukes latest employment numbers??

And not that it justifies the rest of his flawed argument at all, but Research Triangle IS one of the coolest places on the east coast. It is basically Silicon Valley East.

Relevant: http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNL ... slreturn=1

And I never denied that Duke may be in a cool location. You just seem to be overselling it a bit.


The class of 2013 (summering this class) placed 55 - 60% of the class into V100.


Source?




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