UC Hastings v. UC San Diego v. Santa Clara v. Loyola HELPPP

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bessmarvin89
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UC Hastings v. UC San Diego v. Santa Clara v. Loyola HELPPP

Postby bessmarvin89 » Wed Feb 01, 2012 11:58 am

Dear all,

So I got accepted into a bunch of schools on the East Coast which are definite no's because I want to move to CA. In CA my choices are:
UC Hastings- Pro- good ranking, program, helpful faculty, excellent career services con- bad neighborhood, not trying to die
U of San Diego- Pro - SOLID weather, good reputation in SD Con- bad reviews of no jobs/ less jobs :(
Loyola Los Angeles- Pro- LOS ANGELES baby! JK.. Great entertainment law Con- Bad area, no job certainty
Santa Clara- Pro- great IP program, good location Con- competes with Hastings for jobs in bay area
McGeorge- Pro- 25K $$$ no stipulations, helpful people, good reputation in area Con- ranked like a 100


I am so overwhelmed and now I am so confused. I definitely want to go to a good school but I cannot pick. Please let me know what you think and how you would decide. Thank you for all your help in advance.
Last edited by bessmarvin89 on Wed Feb 01, 2012 12:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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bk1
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Re: UC Hastings v. UC San Diego v. Santa Clara v. Loyola HELPPP

Postby bk1 » Wed Feb 01, 2012 12:06 pm

1. The SD law school is USD, not UCSD.

2. T2's in California suck. First, none of them are worth anywhere close to sticker. USD and SCU are terrible (SCU far worse than USD since the Bay Area legal market is in shambles). Loyola is okay (for a T2), however they usually has a top 1/3 or top 30% stipulations on their scholarship meaning that you are more likely than not to lose your scholarship and pay sticker for 2L/3L. So I wouldn't to any of these except possibly Loyola if they gave a full scholarship and you were willing to drop out if you lost your scholarship.

3. Hastings is the only decent school on your list, but it is also not worth anywhere close to sticker. It also suffers immensely from the weak Bay Area (and CA generally) legal market. If Hastings is giving you a large enough scholarship that you can end up with around 100k debt or less, it is the best option. Hastings at more debt than that is a really risky proposition.

4. I honestly wouldn't go to a worse CA law school than Irvine/Davis/Hastings (for around 100k debt). If you absolutely must go lower then I would suggest Loyola/Pepperdine on a full scholarship with the caveat that if you lose your scholarship (which would happen 2/3 of the time coming from those schools) you would drop out.

bessmarvin89
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Re: UC Hastings v. UC San Diego v. Santa Clara v. Loyola HELPPP

Postby bessmarvin89 » Wed Feb 01, 2012 12:14 pm

4. I honestly wouldn't go to a worse CA law school than Irvine/Davis/Hastings (for around 100k debt). If you absolutely must go lower then I would suggest Loyola/Pepperdine on a full scholarship with the caveat that if you lose your scholarship (which would happen 2/3 of the time coming from those schools) you would drop out.[/quote]

IRVINE? Really? I wouldn't even dream of applying there. They have almost ZERO Alumni, their ABA accreditation status is debatable and they're brand new. I went to a Top 15 school undergrad school, I had a job without an interview because I knew the CEO who hand wrote a note to hire me on the spot. I din't do Pepperdine, I would've been too caught up in the Malibu lifestyle to actually study. Thanks for your opinion though.

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bk1
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Re: UC Hastings v. UC San Diego v. Santa Clara v. Loyola HELPPP

Postby bk1 » Wed Feb 01, 2012 12:26 pm

bessmarvin89 wrote:IRVINE? Really? I wouldn't even dream of applying there. They have almost ZERO Alumni, their ABA accreditation status is debatable and they're brand new. I went to a Top 15 school undergrad school, I had a job without an interview because I knew the CEO who hand wrote a note to hire me on the spot. I din't do Pepperdine, I would've been too caught up in the Malibu lifestyle to actually study. Thanks for your opinion though.


Irvine is risky, that is true. But so are the other CA schools. The way I see it:

Irvine:
+ hype, small size, UCI brand, effort put in by faculty, attempt to get OC involved in hiring their grads
- new school, no alumni, unknown placement

Hastings/Davis/Loyola/Pepperdine
+ established schools, alumni networks
- larger classes than UCI, bad placement (only 60-70% of the grads from these schools get full time jobs as lawyers)

So you're basically contrasting the unknown risk of UCI with the known risk of a 30-40% chance that you won't get a full time job as a lawyer coming out of the other 4 schools. I don't think there is a clear-cut call between UCI and the 4, but there are others that disagree and say UCI is definitely worse than the 4. I honestly think that UCI trumps Loyola/Pepperdine since L/P have horrid stipulations on their scholarships and I think at equal cost UCI is roughly equal to UCD/UCH since either way you are taking a large risk.

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20130312
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Re: UC Hastings v. UC San Diego v. Santa Clara v. Loyola HELPPP

Postby 20130312 » Wed Feb 01, 2012 12:28 pm

bessmarvin89 wrote:I had a job.


Don't quit your day job for law school.

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Re: UC Hastings v. UC San Diego v. Santa Clara v. Loyola HELPPP

Postby bessmarvin89 » Wed Feb 01, 2012 1:43 pm

InGoodFaith wrote:
bessmarvin89 wrote:I had a job.


Don't quit your day job for law school.


This job will always be here if I please. I want to be a lawyer my boss knows that. Its dedication, passion and motivation not just an option because I have nothing to do. At worse with my background and experience I'll land a job anyway.

Danteshek
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Re: UC Hastings v. UC San Diego v. Santa Clara v. Loyola HELPPP

Postby Danteshek » Wed Feb 01, 2012 1:46 pm

Stips on Loyola scholarships were relaxed significantly this year to 3.2

Keep in mind that Hastings and especially Davis have been seriously lagging on Bar passage
Last edited by Danteshek on Wed Feb 01, 2012 1:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

bessmarvin89
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Re: UC Hastings v. UC San Diego v. Santa Clara v. Loyola HELPPP

Postby bessmarvin89 » Wed Feb 01, 2012 1:47 pm

Danteshek wrote:Stips on Loyola scholarships were relaxed significantly this year to 3.2


Yup and they changed their grading scale or something I hear to raise grades.

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Re: UC Hastings v. UC San Diego v. Santa Clara v. Loyola HELPPP

Postby Danteshek » Wed Feb 01, 2012 1:50 pm

bessmarvin89 wrote:
Danteshek wrote:Stips on Loyola scholarships were relaxed significantly this year to 3.2


Yup and they changed their grading scale or something I hear to raise grades.


The scale was raised to match that of other area schools.

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Mr. Somebody
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Re: UC Hastings v. UC San Diego v. Santa Clara v. Loyola HELPPP

Postby Mr. Somebody » Wed Feb 01, 2012 2:20 pm

Santa Clara doesn't really "compete" with Hastings, Hastings is the non-T14 top dog in the area along with Davis. If you want to work in this area Hastings is your best bet but it's ridiculously expensive at sticker. The job prospects out of Santa Clara are shit, but Hastings is a risk too - according to LST 40% of grads don't even have confirmed FT legal employment. Your chances of getting biglaw out of Hastings are also very low.

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Re: UC Hastings v. UC San Diego v. Santa Clara v. Loyola HELPPP

Postby moneybagsphd » Wed Feb 01, 2012 2:37 pm

bessmarvin89 wrote:IRVINE? Really? I wouldn't even dream of applying there. They have almost ZERO Alumni, their ABA accreditation status is debatable and they're brand new. I went to a Top 15 school undergrad school, I had a job without an interview because I knew the CEO who hand wrote a note to hire me on the spot. I din't do Pepperdine, I would've been too caught up in the Malibu lifestyle to actually study. Thanks for your opinion though.

L-O-fucking-L! Look at the list of schools you're choosing between; USD, SCU, Loyola, McGeorge, Pepperdine. The only law school on your list that is "peer" with UCI is Hastings. The rest are TT(T)s. UCI's ABA accreditation status is not "debatable," as they are provisionally accredited and no sane person doubts that they will become fully accredited. Prospects at UCI are far from certain (although their first class seems to have some impressive placement in Clerkships), but I would guess that they are far better than all of the schools you listed with the possible exception of Hastings.
Of the schools you listed, Hastings is the only one worth attending.

Danteshek
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Re: UC Hastings v. UC San Diego v. Santa Clara v. Loyola HELPPP

Postby Danteshek » Wed Feb 01, 2012 9:21 pm

:roll:

I love the balanced, unbiased analysis in the previous post.

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pugilistjd
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Re: UC Hastings v. UC San Diego v. Santa Clara v. Loyola HELPPP

Postby pugilistjd » Wed Feb 01, 2012 9:59 pm

Compare UCI employment stats (e.g. clerkships) to, say, Loyola who always boasts about their alumni network (and Johnny Cochran). People were complaining about prospects about Loyola even just before the economy tanked. Google "Loyola 2L."

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moneybagsphd
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Re: UC Hastings v. UC San Diego v. Santa Clara v. Loyola HELPPP

Postby moneybagsphd » Wed Feb 01, 2012 10:17 pm

Danteshek wrote::roll:

I love the balanced, unbiased analysis in the previous post.

My point is that OP is considering TTs, but for whatever reason thinks they're too good for UCI. UCI is undoubtedly better than USD, SCU, Pepperdine, and Loyola. Also, full disclosure: I don't go to UCI.

bessmarvin89
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Re: UC Hastings v. UC San Diego v. Santa Clara v. Loyola HELPPP

Postby bessmarvin89 » Thu Feb 02, 2012 11:05 am

moneybagsphd wrote:
Danteshek wrote::roll:

I love the balanced, unbiased analysis in the previous post.

My point is that OP is considering TTs, but for whatever reason thinks they're too good for UCI. UCI is undoubtedly better than USD, SCU, Pepperdine, and Loyola. Also, full disclosure: I don't go to UCI.


Oh I'm sorry Asshole, I din't see YOU listed in the genius of the year book. How dare you put down somebody for the school's they're considering? Are you me Bitch? Do you know what the fuck I went through with my life asshat? Do you have any idea about me? HELL FUCKING NO. Before you fucking go around talking about people and their schools, for a second use that brain of yours to do things like fucking THINK! Take your opinion and choke on it.

bessmarvin89
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Re: UC Hastings v. UC San Diego v. Santa Clara v. Loyola HELPPP

Postby bessmarvin89 » Thu Feb 02, 2012 11:08 am

IF YOU ARE GOING TO BE RUDE like the Pompous Asshole before, please do me a favor and don't even reply. This post was to get opinions, you know those pesky little experience statements? NOT for you to judge the schools I applied to or me. If you try and judge someone based off something like the schools they chose and try to make them feel bad, it makes you the jackass not them. Sorry i'm mad, this is a humble request. Thanks

bessmarvin89
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Re: UC Hastings v. UC San Diego v. Santa Clara v. Loyola HELPPP

Postby bessmarvin89 » Thu Feb 02, 2012 11:11 am

moneybagsphd wrote:
Danteshek wrote::roll:

I love the balanced, unbiased analysis in the previous post.

My point is that OP is considering TTs, but for whatever reason thinks they're too good for UCI. UCI is undoubtedly better than USD, SCU, Pepperdine, and Loyola. Also, full disclosure: I don't go to UCI.


I NEVER said I was too good for UCI you Son of a Bitch. I just said I din't want to go there. Learn to read. Oh wait you are so blinded by your bloated ego, judgmental qualities and jerk nature that a moron like you couldn't read the reasons I listed why i'd never attend. That's right.

bessmarvin89
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Re: UC Hastings v. UC San Diego v. Santa Clara v. Loyola HELPPP

Postby bessmarvin89 » Thu Feb 02, 2012 11:13 am

Mr. Somebody wrote:Santa Clara doesn't really "compete" with Hastings, Hastings is the non-T14 top dog in the area along with Davis. If you want to work in this area Hastings is your best bet but it's ridiculously expensive at sticker. The job prospects out of Santa Clara are shit, but Hastings is a risk too - according to LST 40% of grads don't even have confirmed FT legal employment. Your chances of getting biglaw out of Hastings are also very low.


I know but I'm a reasonable gambler :wink: Hastings is a gamble I'll take

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Re: UC Hastings v. UC San Diego v. Santa Clara v. Loyola HELPPP

Postby bessmarvin89 » Thu Feb 02, 2012 11:18 am

pugilistjd wrote:Compare UCI employment stats (e.g. clerkships) to, say, Loyola who always boasts about their alumni network (and Johnny Cochran). People were complaining about prospects about Loyola even just before the economy tanked. Google "Loyola 2L."


I understand that, but you see there's only so much a law school can do for you. A Hell lot depends on you as a person. I know lawyers from TTTT's with decent jobs in this economy. I think if I went to a decent school, I know I will have a job. Call me a dreamer :P I know I'm being hopeful

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bk1
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Re: UC Hastings v. UC San Diego v. Santa Clara v. Loyola HELPPP

Postby bk1 » Thu Feb 02, 2012 11:23 am

bessmarvin89 wrote:I understand that, but you see there's only so much a law school can do for you. A Hell lot depends on you as a person. I know lawyers from TTTT's with decent jobs in this economy. I think if I went to a decent school, I know I will have a job. Call me a dreamer :P I know I'm being hopeful


Oh, so you think you're a special snowflake?

Also: USD/Loyola/SCU/etc aren't really "decent."

bessmarvin89
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Re: UC Hastings v. UC San Diego v. Santa Clara v. Loyola HELPPP

Postby bessmarvin89 » Thu Feb 02, 2012 11:26 am

bk1 wrote:
bessmarvin89 wrote:I understand that, but you see there's only so much a law school can do for you. A Hell lot depends on you as a person. I know lawyers from TTTT's with decent jobs in this economy. I think if I went to a decent school, I know I will have a job. Call me a dreamer :P I know I'm being hopeful


Oh, so you think you're a special snowflake?

Also: USD/Loyola/SCU/etc aren't really "decent."


*sigh* No just motivated and optimistic. I know they're not thanks but they come with almost no debt.

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moneybagsphd
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Re: UC Hastings v. UC San Diego v. Santa Clara v. Loyola HELPPP

Postby moneybagsphd » Thu Feb 02, 2012 1:16 pm

bessmarvin89 wrote:I NEVER said I was too good for UCI you Son of a Bitch. I just said I din't want to go there. Learn to read. Oh wait you are so blinded by your bloated ego, judgmental qualities and jerk nature that a moron like you couldn't read the reasons I listed why i'd never attend. That's right.

bessmarvin89 wrote:IRVINE? Really? I wouldn't even dream of applying there.

Derp dee derp.

Apparently my point was lost on you. You wouldn't dream of applying to UCI because it has no alumni network yet you applied to many TTs. That is stupid; those alumni networks are not going to get you a job, and you're just going to have a worse law school on your resume. Even the Irvine trolls here will agree that UCI is going to outrank those schools (admissions are already more competitive) with the exception of Hastings. Hastings is the only T1 on your list, so go there. Easy decision.

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Re: UC Hastings v. UC San Diego v. Santa Clara v. Loyola HELPPP

Postby apollo2015 » Thu Feb 02, 2012 1:48 pm

bessmarvin89 wrote:Dear all,

So I got accepted into a bunch of schools on the East Coast which are definite no's because I want to move to CA. In CA my choices are:
UC Hastings- Pro- good ranking, program, helpful faculty, excellent career services con- bad neighborhood, not trying to die
U of San Diego- Pro - SOLID weather, good reputation in SD Con- bad reviews of no jobs/ less jobs :(
Loyola Los Angeles- Pro- LOS ANGELES baby! JK.. Great entertainment law Con- Bad area, no job certainty
Santa Clara- Pro- great IP program, good location Con- competes with Hastings for jobs in bay area
McGeorge- Pro- 25K $$$ no stipulations, helpful people, good reputation in area Con- ranked like a 100


I am so overwhelmed and now I am so confused. I definitely want to go to a good school but I cannot pick. Please let me know what you think and how you would decide. Thank you for all your help in advance.


I was also choosing between many of the schools you are considering. I ultimately decided on UC Hastings, because of everything I've heard about their strong alumni network, great reputation, their wonderful programs, and their extremely centralized location. Getting a job after I graduate is important to me. Also, the UC (University of California) brandname is very highly thought of in California.

Don't let the reputation of the Tenderloin scare you away from Hastings. When I was a kid I would visit there at least once a week, and never felt threatened. Hastings is one block away from BART and the Muni Metro Subway, which will take you almost anywhere you want to go in the City. Moreover, the affluent and safe downtown is just 4 blocks away. (Aka, one subway station away.) The new headquarters of Twitter will be 3 blocks away in the other direction.

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calilaw
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Re: UC Hastings v. UC San Diego v. Santa Clara v. Loyola HELPPP

Postby calilaw » Thu Feb 02, 2012 2:26 pm

UC Hastings is your only good option. Loyola is a distant second, if you plan on staying in the LA area and get considerable $$ and are willing to put up with any stipulations they may have (i.e. risk of substantial debt)

bessmarvin89
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Re: UC Hastings v. UC San Diego v. Santa Clara v. Loyola HELPPP

Postby bessmarvin89 » Thu Feb 02, 2012 2:41 pm

apollo2015 wrote:
bessmarvin89 wrote:


Don't let the reputation of the Tenderloin scare you away from Hastings. When I was a kid I would visit there at least once a week, and never felt threatened. Hastings is one block away from BART and the Muni Metro Subway, which will take you almost anywhere you want to go in the City. Moreover, the affluent and safe downtown is just 4 blocks away. (Aka, one subway station away.) The new headquarters of Twitter will be 3 blocks away in the other direction.


OMG Dear Apollo2015 Thank you for your message. I was very inclined on Hastings when i received the acceptance I was ecstatic. Then there was trouble in paradise. I swear the things I heard of the "hood" scared the hell out of me. I got told I'll get mugged easy. Homeless and drug addicts troll around looking to prey on girls like me. Thank you.




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