Hamilton vs. HLS vs. Stanford

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Hamilton vs. HLS vs. Stanford

Hamilton Fellowship
128
65%
HLS
23
12%
Stanford
46
23%
 
Total votes: 197

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kalvano
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Re: Hamilton vs. HLS vs. Stanford

Postby kalvano » Mon Jan 30, 2012 12:25 am

Guchster wrote:The sense I get from CLS is that people who go there, are all the people who couldn't get into HYS--mainly the waitlisted.


1) Yale
2) Harvard
3) Stanford
4) Columbia


Gee, whatever gives you that idea?

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Guchster
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Re: Hamilton vs. HLS vs. Stanford

Postby Guchster » Mon Jan 30, 2012 12:29 am

kalvano wrote:
Guchster wrote:The sense I get from CLS is that people who go there, are all the people who couldn't get into HYS--mainly the waitlisted.


1) Yale
2) Harvard
3) Stanford
4) Columbia


Gee, whatever gives you that idea?


the point of that comment wasn't to state the obvious. It was to serve as support to show that people who go to CLS think more highly of it than people in the real legal world do.

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kalvano
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Re: Hamilton vs. HLS vs. Stanford

Postby kalvano » Mon Jan 30, 2012 12:33 am

Guchster wrote:
kalvano wrote:
Guchster wrote:The sense I get from CLS is that people who go there, are all the people who couldn't get into HYS--mainly the waitlisted.


1) Yale
2) Harvard
3) Stanford
4) Columbia


Gee, whatever gives you that idea?


the point of that comment wasn't to state the obvious. It was to serve as support to show that people who go to CLS think more highly of it than people in the real legal world do.


Since the US News Rankings are based in no small part on perceived prestige of the legal institution by people in the real legal world, I'm pretty sure Columbia is ranked fairly well in the real world.

When a place is your Harvard back-up plan, that's sort of like having to settle for the filet mignon because they were out of Kobe beef.

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Guchster
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Re: Hamilton vs. HLS vs. Stanford

Postby Guchster » Mon Jan 30, 2012 12:37 am

kalvano wrote:
Guchster wrote:
kalvano wrote:
Guchster wrote:The sense I get from CLS is that people who go there, are all the people who couldn't get into HYS--mainly the waitlisted.


1) Yale
2) Harvard
3) Stanford
4) Columbia


Gee, whatever gives you that idea?


the point of that comment wasn't to state the obvious. It was to serve as support to show that people who go to CLS think more highly of it than people in the real legal world do.


Since the US News Rankings are based in no small part on perceived prestige of the legal institution by people in the real legal world, I'm pretty sure Columbia is ranked fairly well in the real world.

When a place is your Harvard back-up plan, that's sort of like having to settle for the filet mignon because they were out of Kobe beef.


I mean I go to CLS, lol, I know it's a good school. And considering all the 1L SA offers thrown my way, I know it's doing wonders for me. But at the end of the day, I get the sense here that people think of HYS as our equals, and in reality, we're just not.

Harvard is harvard. Yale is yale, and Stanford is stanford. Columbia will never be in that tier and people at CLS need to recognize it and realize that for some people with cash, the opportunities reserved for people in that tier are worth 200k.

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camelcrema
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Re: Hamilton vs. HLS vs. Stanford

Postby camelcrema » Mon Jan 30, 2012 12:39 am

CLS 1L. I'm going to echo the sentiment that if you're interested in international or academia, SLS and HLS are going to pave the way. I would take SLS over HLS because of the smaller class size, but that will probably come down to financial aid and personal preference. Beyond that, I think you should seriously consider how much money 150k is, and whether you really want that hanging over your head for the first few years of your career. It will necessarily affect every decision you make, from being able to start a family to having the freedom to take a job you really want. I think you should visit and get a feel for each school before letting Guch's hate for his/her school destroy your image of CLS.

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kalvano
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Re: Hamilton vs. HLS vs. Stanford

Postby kalvano » Mon Jan 30, 2012 12:43 am

Is there really a "wrong" choice here?

09042014
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Re: Hamilton vs. HLS vs. Stanford

Postby 09042014 » Mon Jan 30, 2012 12:45 am

This thread is proving my theory correct, that CCN students are more butt hurt about not getting HYS, than lower T14 students. It's like getting Silver medal in the olympics. You send your life thinking if you only did a little better. The Bronze dood is just happy to get a medal.

CLS is worse than HYS. At some jobs like academia it is considerably worse. But for big law it's only a little bit worse. And all that doesn't equal 150K.

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Guchster
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Re: Hamilton vs. HLS vs. Stanford

Postby Guchster » Mon Jan 30, 2012 12:46 am

camelcrema wrote:CLS 1L. I'm going to echo the sentiment that if you're interested in international or academia, SLS and HLS are going to pave the way. I would take SLS over HLS because of the smaller class size, but that will probably come down to financial aid and personal preference. Beyond that, I think you should seriously consider how much money 150k is, and whether you really want that hanging over your head for the first few years of your career. It will necessarily affect every decision you make, from being able to start a family to having the freedom to take a job you really want. I think you should visit and get a feel for each school before letting Guch's hate for his/her school destroy your image of CLS.


thanks for checking me camel, i didn't meant to convey that i hate CLS so much that I discourage people from going here over lesser school. Just not sure it's the best place to go for all kinds of opportunities--esp. if you have a golden ticket most of us (at cls) would kill for.

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Guchster
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Re: Hamilton vs. HLS vs. Stanford

Postby Guchster » Mon Jan 30, 2012 12:48 am

Desert Fox wrote:This thread is proving my theory correct, that CCN students are more butt hurt about not getting HYS, than lower T14 students. It's like getting Silver medal in the olympics. You send your life thinking if you only did a little better. The Bronze dood is just happy to get a medal.

CLS is worse than HYS. At some jobs like academia it is considerably worse. But for big law it's only a little bit worse. And all that doesn't equal 150K.


I certainly feel that way about the silver medal thing. Some cls people are comfortable walking around with columbia law school shirts. WTF would i be caught wearing shit like that to class? It's like wearing your silver medal all the time.

I guess its cool bro if you're settling for silver and like telling people you competed in the olympics.

According to stanford people, the difference between stanford and hamilton is not 150 k, but more in the five digit range.

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hung jury
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Re: Hamilton vs. HLS vs. Stanford

Postby hung jury » Mon Jan 30, 2012 1:08 am

Guchster wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:This thread is proving my theory correct, that CCN students are more butt hurt about not getting HYS, than lower T14 students. It's like getting Silver medal in the olympics. You send your life thinking if you only did a little better. The Bronze dood is just happy to get a medal.

CLS is worse than HYS. At some jobs like academia it is considerably worse. But for big law it's only a little bit worse. And all that doesn't equal 150K.


I certainly feel that way about the silver medal thing. Some cls people are comfortable walking around with columbia law school shirts. WTF would i be caught wearing shit like that to class? It's like wearing your silver medal all the time.

I guess its cool bro if you're settling for silver and like telling people you competed in the olympics.

According to stanford people, the difference between stanford and hamilton is not 150 k, but more in the five digit range.


Just to be clear, I was suggesting that the difference in actual cost of attendance is usually in the five figures range (sometimes in the low five figures--I know more than a couple people with grants in the 40k region). I have no idea what other SLS students would have paid to attend SLS.

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yankees42789
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Re: Hamilton vs. HLS vs. Stanford

Postby yankees42789 » Mon Jan 30, 2012 8:14 pm

OP - I'm in the exact same boat as you. While I think there's little doubt that the Hamilton is the best choice from a monetary expected value perspective, I'm increasingly coming to believe that this is a very personal choice and there's no uniformly right or wrong decision. It all depends on your personal feelings about debt, your career aspirations, and which school is the best fit for you. Feel free to PM me if you want to chat about HLS/SLS/Hamilton as, like you, I'm far from having my mind up.

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takehold
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Re: Hamilton vs. HLS vs. Stanford

Postby takehold » Mon Jan 30, 2012 10:28 pm

yankees42789 wrote:OP - I'm in the exact same boat as you. While I think there's little doubt that the Hamilton is the best choice from a monetary expected value perspective, I'm increasingly coming to believe that this is a very personal choice and there's no uniformly right or wrong decision. It all depends on your personal feelings about debt, your career aspirations, and which school is the best fit for you. Feel free to PM me if you want to chat about HLS/SLS/Hamilton as, like you, I'm far from having my mind up.


+1 on all counts, from another person facing the same decision.

dixiecupdrinking
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Re: Hamilton vs. HLS vs. Stanford

Postby dixiecupdrinking » Mon Jan 30, 2012 11:57 pm

For the love of god take the f'ing money.

$150,000 debt will take probably four years of biglaw to pay off with little-no savings.

071816
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Re: Hamilton vs. HLS vs. Stanford

Postby 071816 » Tue Jan 31, 2012 12:00 am

Desert Fox wrote:Objectively retarded to not choose Hamilton.

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Flash
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Re: Hamilton vs. HLS vs. Stanford

Postby Flash » Tue Jan 31, 2012 12:37 am

yankees42789 wrote:OP - I'm in the exact same boat as you. While I think there's little doubt that the Hamilton is the best choice from a monetary expected value perspective, I'm increasingly coming to believe that this is a very personal choice and there's no uniformly right or wrong decision. It all depends on your personal feelings about debt, your career aspirations, and which school is the best fit for you. Feel free to PM me if you want to chat about HLS/SLS/Hamilton as, like you, I'm far from having my mind up.

HLS is the wrong decision.

legends159
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Re: Hamilton vs. HLS vs. Stanford

Postby legends159 » Tue Jan 31, 2012 12:51 am

hung jury wrote:
Guchster wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:This thread is proving my theory correct, that CCN students are more butt hurt about not getting HYS, than lower T14 students. It's like getting Silver medal in the olympics. You send your life thinking if you only did a little better. The Bronze dood is just happy to get a medal.

CLS is worse than HYS. At some jobs like academia it is considerably worse. But for big law it's only a little bit worse. And all that doesn't equal 150K.


I certainly feel that way about the silver medal thing. Some cls people are comfortable walking around with columbia law school shirts. WTF would i be caught wearing shit like that to class? It's like wearing your silver medal all the time.

I guess its cool bro if you're settling for silver and like telling people you competed in the olympics.

According to stanford people, the difference between stanford and hamilton is not 150 k, but more in the five digit range.


Just to be clear, I was suggesting that the difference in actual cost of attendance is usually in the five figures range (sometimes in the low five figures--I know more than a couple people with grants in the 40k region). I have no idea what other SLS students would have paid to attend SLS.


I agree the grants are high at SLS, but if you work over the summer they take about 60% of your pre-tax earnings and deduct that amount from the grants you get. So if you do law firm and make $30k over the summer, your grants are reduced by 18K. Then you deduct the tax on the $30K (roughly 40%) and you're left with $18K. It is as if you made no money over the summer (though you get a nice refund the following year). The Hamilton, however is guaranteed money

I love SLS and love the fact that I can play golf and tennis year round but I would take the guaranteed money in a heartbeat. You really have no idea how your interests will change once you start law school. A bunch of my friends who thought they wanted academia 1L year are going the biglaw or PI route.

abacus
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Re: Hamilton vs. HLS vs. Stanford

Postby abacus » Tue Jan 31, 2012 12:54 am

Flash wrote:HLS is the wrong decision.


Why do you say that? Class size?

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hung jury
Posts: 159
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Re: Hamilton vs. HLS vs. Stanford

Postby hung jury » Tue Jan 31, 2012 1:18 am

legends159 wrote:
hung jury wrote:
Guchster wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:This thread is proving my theory correct, that CCN students are more butt hurt about not getting HYS, than lower T14 students. It's like getting Silver medal in the olympics. You send your life thinking if you only did a little better. The Bronze dood is just happy to get a medal.

CLS is worse than HYS. At some jobs like academia it is considerably worse. But for big law it's only a little bit worse. And all that doesn't equal 150K.


I certainly feel that way about the silver medal thing. Some cls people are comfortable walking around with columbia law school shirts. WTF would i be caught wearing shit like that to class? It's like wearing your silver medal all the time.

I guess its cool bro if you're settling for silver and like telling people you competed in the olympics.

According to stanford people, the difference between stanford and hamilton is not 150 k, but more in the five digit range.


Just to be clear, I was suggesting that the difference in actual cost of attendance is usually in the five figures range (sometimes in the low five figures--I know more than a couple people with grants in the 40k region). I have no idea what other SLS students would have paid to attend SLS.


I agree the grants are high at SLS, but if you work over the summer they take about 60% of your pre-tax earnings and deduct that amount from the grants you get. So if you do law firm and make $30k over the summer, your grants are reduced by 18K. Then you deduct the tax on the $30K (roughly 40%) and you're left with $18K. It is as if you made no money over the summer (though you get a nice refund the following year). The Hamilton, however is guaranteed money

I love SLS and love the fact that I can play golf and tennis year round but I would take the guaranteed money in a heartbeat. You really have no idea how your interests will change once you start law school. A bunch of my friends who thought they wanted academia 1L year are going the biglaw or PI route.


Fair enough, the 1L grant is really going to be the top end of what you might get on an annual basis. And I wholeheartedly endorse the sentiment that it is hard to know exactly what you'll end up wanting to do until you're actually in law school (for instance, the reality of academia and international law are both very hard to know from the outside)--after a few weeks the value of the big scholarships became very evident to me. I'm still happy with my choice but there are plenty of situations where I'd recommend one go with the Hamilton.

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kalvano
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Re: Hamilton vs. HLS vs. Stanford

Postby kalvano » Tue Jan 31, 2012 1:21 am

This is probably a stupid question, but can you lose the Hamilton award if you don't hit a certain GPA?

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Guchster
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Re: Hamilton vs. HLS vs. Stanford

Postby Guchster » Tue Jan 31, 2012 1:22 am

kalvano wrote:This is probably a stupid question, but can you lose the Hamilton award if you don't hit a certain GPA?


nah. cls is not a scam school bro.

but obvs. if you fail out (which no one does). you lose it.
Last edited by Guchster on Tue Jan 31, 2012 1:22 am, edited 1 time in total.

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kalvano
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Re: Hamilton vs. HLS vs. Stanford

Postby kalvano » Tue Jan 31, 2012 1:22 am

Guchster wrote:
kalvano wrote:This is probably a stupid question, but can you lose the Hamilton award if you don't hit a certain GPA?


nah.


I didn't think so, but I was just curious.

soycapitán
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Re: Hamilton vs. HLS vs. Stanford

Postby soycapitán » Tue Jan 31, 2012 2:52 am

takehold wrote:
yankees42789 wrote:OP - I'm in the exact same boat as you. While I think there's little doubt that the Hamilton is the best choice from a monetary expected value perspective, I'm increasingly coming to believe that this is a very personal choice and there's no uniformly right or wrong decision. It all depends on your personal feelings about debt, your career aspirations, and which school is the best fit for you. Feel free to PM me if you want to chat about HLS/SLS/Hamilton as, like you, I'm far from having my mind up.


+1 on all counts, from another person facing the same decision.


+2. I'm also from CA, interested in international, and actually went Columbia undergrad, so have a unique perspective there. No idea what my choice will be. Would love to chat.

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Flash
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Re: Hamilton vs. HLS vs. Stanford

Postby Flash » Tue Jan 31, 2012 10:59 am

abacus wrote:
Flash wrote:HLS is the wrong decision.


Why do you say that? Class size?

Class size, location, some professors actually still give LPs.

6lehderjets
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Re: Hamilton vs. HLS vs. Stanford

Postby 6lehderjets » Tue Jan 31, 2012 10:28 pm

kalvano wrote:Is there really a "wrong" choice here?

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sunynp
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Re: Hamilton vs. HLS vs. Stanford

Postby sunynp » Tue Jan 31, 2012 10:35 pm

Why would you take on 200,000 of debt when you don't have to? I would love to ask the trustee of my friend's trust fund to see what they would say. I am certain that a prudent financial advisor would not approve spending $200,000 for Harvard or Stanford when you could go to Columbia for free.

I mean, seriously, what world do you live in that $200,000 is not enough money to make your mind up for you? Just why would you burden your future with having to pay that amount back? It makes no sense to me.




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