Fordham (sticker) v. Wake forest (23,000/year)

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Fordham (sticker)v. Wake Forest (23,000/year)

Fordham
10
29%
Wake Forest
25
71%
 
Total votes: 35

Marie34
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Fordham (sticker) v. Wake forest (23,000/year)

Postby Marie34 » Fri Jan 27, 2012 6:58 pm

Looking to go into corporate/tax law. I know fordham would give me so much more oppurtunites but I can't get over how expensive it is...

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gaud
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Re: Fordham (sticker) v. Wake forest (23,000/year)

Postby gaud » Fri Jan 27, 2012 7:02 pm

What would your total COA be at each school? Where would you rather live?

MrAnon
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Re: Fordham (sticker) v. Wake forest (23,000/year)

Postby MrAnon » Fri Jan 27, 2012 7:12 pm

Want to work in NYC or NC?

Median students at Fordham are not getting corporate law / tax law jobs, but neither or those at Wake. The question then becomes how much are median students at Fordham struggling vs. median students at Wake. My guess is Fordham median struggles considerably more due to high cost of living and school debt combined with middle income legal careers.

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MrPapagiorgio
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Re: Fordham (sticker) v. Wake forest (23,000/year)

Postby MrPapagiorgio » Fri Jan 27, 2012 7:18 pm

MrAnon wrote:Want to work in NYC or NC?

Median students at Fordham are not getting corporate law / tax law jobs, but neither or those at Wake. The question then becomes how much are median students at Fordham struggling vs. median students at Wake. My guess is Fordham median struggles considerably more due to high cost of living and school debt combined with middle income legal careers.

Pretty credited response. Fordham has a very good reputation in NYC, but the reality of the legal market is that the most of the students being courted from Fordham are near the top. Paying full tuition and cost of living at Fordham (west side of Manhattan) puts you over 200K in debt. And considering your chances of getting that biglaw spot that will allow you to make a dent in that debt are not as good as they once were, I would seriously weigh your options.

The last two OCI threads for Fordham described a bloodbath, even for some students in the top 25%. Just remember: at a school like Fordham, there are going to be many kids who turned down higher ranked schools to break into NYC at Fordham with a sizable scholarship. Obviously that does not mean they will do well and that you won't, but it is something to consider.

MrAnon
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Re: Fordham (sticker) v. Wake forest (23,000/year)

Postby MrAnon » Fri Jan 27, 2012 7:24 pm

The smartest thing may be to head to Wake. You do well? The world is your oyster and you can transfer to NYU or something and you'll get that job in NYC. Do poorly? well you would never have done well at Fordham anyway and thank your lucky stars you chose Wake. And in that case you can always then move to NY after graduation and beg for corporate law / tax work; your chances of finding something will be the same as a similarly positioned Fordham student.

Marie34
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Re: Fordham (sticker) v. Wake forest (23,000/year)

Postby Marie34 » Fri Jan 27, 2012 8:25 pm

Thanks everyone for all your advice its helping a lot! Except I should've added something from the beginning. My parents have genorously offered to pay my way through law school no matter where I choose to go, so I really don't have to worry about loans or debt. But the thought of dropping over 70K at Fordham is making me feel guilty in even asking them to shell out that much considering I attended an expensive private school for undergrad.

And I'm mostly worried about the job placement after school. It seems the general consensus of Wake Forest is that its good for getting jobs in NC solely, and I don't wish or plan to be working there.

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MrPapagiorgio
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Re: Fordham (sticker) v. Wake forest (23,000/year)

Postby MrPapagiorgio » Fri Jan 27, 2012 8:46 pm

Marie34 wrote:Thanks everyone for all your advice its helping a lot! Except I should've added something from the beginning. My parents have genorously offered to pay my way through law school no matter where I choose to go, so I really don't have to worry about loans or debt. But the thought of dropping over 70K at Fordham is making me feel guilty in even asking them to shell out that much considering I attended an expensive private school for undergrad.

And I'm mostly worried about the job placement after school. It seems the general consensus of Wake Forest is that its good for getting jobs in NC solely, and I don't wish or plan to be working there.

Then you answered your own question, and I wonder why you even applied to Wake Forest if you have no desire to be in that region. Nevertheless, the usual test for parents paying for law school is this:

Is the money your parents are using for law school disposable income that will not affect their standard of living/financial well-being?
If the answer is yes, then do as you wish and enjoy no debt. If the answer is no (your parents are taking out loans; pulling equity out of their house; living like paupers until those 3 years are up), then the general advice is to ask yourself if you can in good conscience ask them to take on such a burden.

Marie34
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Re: Fordham (sticker) v. Wake forest (23,000/year)

Postby Marie34 » Tue Jan 31, 2012 12:57 pm

Then you answered your own question, and I wonder why you even applied to Wake Forest if you have no desire to be in that region. Nevertheless, the usual test for parents paying for law school is this:

Is the money your parents are using for law school disposable income that will not affect their standard of living/financial well-being?
If the answer is yes, then do as you wish and enjoy no debt. If the answer is no (your parents are taking out loans; pulling equity out of their house; living like paupers until those 3 years are up), then the general advice is to ask yourself if you can in good conscience ask them to take on such a burden.


Maybe I should clarify that while I perfer to work in NY, it isn't an absolute necessity. While I know Wake Forest placement in places such as NY and MA are small, they also aren't non-existant. My parents are very financially stable and wll be able to take care of the cost without much problem; but I still feel extremely bad about it. So, I guess my question is whether the actual education value of Fordham is anywhere near the cost of attendance, and if not, is attending Wake Forest with a hope of breaking into NY/MA market put me in any better of a position?

MrAnon
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Re: Fordham (sticker) v. Wake forest (23,000/year)

Postby MrAnon » Tue Jan 31, 2012 1:48 pm

The only schools worth cost of attendance are Harvard Yale and Stanford. As you move down the difference between the value of the school and the cost grows wider until you reach bottom and it is completely dislocated.

keg411
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Re: Fordham (sticker) v. Wake forest (23,000/year)

Postby keg411 » Tue Jan 31, 2012 1:57 pm

OP, where are you from? If you're not from NC, don't go to Wake. Go to your local school either at in-state and/or with $$$.

Marie34
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Re: Fordham (sticker) v. Wake forest (23,000/year)

Postby Marie34 » Tue Jan 31, 2012 4:09 pm

keg411 wrote:OP, where are you from? If you're not from NC, don't go to Wake. Go to your local school either at in-state and/or with $$$.


I'm from upstate NY. The only law schools really around me are Syracuse and Buffalo; both of which are schools I have no interest in attending when I have much better schools to choose from.

dixiecupdrinking
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Re: Fordham (sticker) v. Wake forest (23,000/year)

Postby dixiecupdrinking » Tue Jan 31, 2012 5:08 pm

It sounds like you probably want to work for a large NYC firm. Fordham will give you better odds at doing that. Still, it won't give you objectively good odds. Whether those odds are worth your parents' money is between you and your parents. Honestly, I would not go to law school based on what you've said, but again, it depends on how you value the money.

keg411
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Re: Fordham (sticker) v. Wake forest (23,000/year)

Postby keg411 » Tue Jan 31, 2012 6:35 pm

Marie34 wrote:
keg411 wrote:OP, where are you from? If you're not from NC, don't go to Wake. Go to your local school either at in-state and/or with $$$.


I'm from upstate NY. The only law schools really around me are Syracuse and Buffalo; both of which are schools I have no interest in attending when I have much better schools to choose from.


"Better" is relative. Your best chance of getting a legal job is where you're from. If you want NYC BigLaw, you need to re-take until you can get into a T14. There is no use of having a Wake Forest law degree if you don't want to work in NC, and I can't recommend Fordham at sticker. You're better off with a full ride (with no stips) from your local schools.


MrAnon
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Re: Fordham (sticker) v. Wake forest (23,000/year)

Postby MrAnon » Thu Feb 02, 2012 8:31 pm

Describing Fordham/Wake Forest as better than Syracuse/Buffalo shows some misunderstanding of the situation. No employer is going to be floored by any graduate of these schools. Syracuse is the best school in upstate, Buffalo is the best school in the western part of the state, Fordham is the third best school in a 5 mile radius, and wake Forest is the best school in Western NC. Relying on rankings to compare lower T1s or even T3s is misleading. They are all the same school, just in different geographic areas.

tennisking88
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Re: Fordham (sticker) v. Wake forest (23,000/year)

Postby tennisking88 » Mon Feb 06, 2012 2:32 pm

If you don't want to work/live in NC, Fordham is TCR. If you have other choices, let's hear them.

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ndirish2010
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Re: Fordham (sticker) v. Wake forest (23,000/year)

Postby ndirish2010 » Mon Feb 06, 2012 3:46 pm

Fordham at sticker is NEVER the answer. I don't care where you want to work. Either learn to like North Carolina or retake.

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ndirish2010
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Re: Fordham (sticker) v. Wake forest (23,000/year)

Postby ndirish2010 » Mon Feb 06, 2012 3:47 pm

MrAnon wrote:Describing Fordham/Wake Forest as better than Syracuse/Buffalo shows some misunderstanding of the situation. No employer is going to be floored by any graduate of these schools. Syracuse is the best school in upstate, Buffalo is the best school in the western part of the state, Fordham is the third best school in a 5 mile radius, and wake Forest is the best school in Western NC. Relying on rankings to compare lower T1s or even T3s is misleading. They are all the same school, just in different geographic areas.


This is actually very wrong. Fordham is better than Wake Forest and both are better than Cuse/Buffalo. However, Fordham at sticker is financial suicide.

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Tiago Splitter
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Re: Fordham (sticker) v. Wake forest (23,000/year)

Postby Tiago Splitter » Mon Feb 06, 2012 3:49 pm

ndirish2010 wrote:Fordham is better than Wake Forest and both are better than Cuse/Buffalo. However, Fordham at sticker is financial suicide.


Marie34 wrote:My parents have genorously offered to pay my way through law school no matter where I choose to go, so I really don't have to worry about loans or debt.

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romothesavior
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Re: Fordham (sticker) v. Wake forest (23,000/year)

Postby romothesavior » Mon Feb 06, 2012 3:50 pm

Marie34 wrote:Thanks everyone for all your advice its helping a lot! Except I should've added something from the beginning. My parents have genorously offered to pay my way through law school no matter where I choose to go, so I really don't have to worry about loans or debt. But the thought of dropping over 70K at Fordham is making me feel guilty in even asking them to shell out that much considering I attended an expensive private school for undergrad.

And I'm mostly worried about the job placement after school. It seems the general consensus of Wake Forest is that its good for getting jobs in NC solely, and I don't wish or plan to be working there.

If your parents can afford to drop $200,000+ on your degree, then they are loaded enough that you shouldn't feel guilty about going to Fordham.

If you want to work in NYC and do corporate law, then you should go there over Wake.

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ndirish2010
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Re: Fordham (sticker) v. Wake forest (23,000/year)

Postby ndirish2010 » Mon Feb 06, 2012 3:52 pm

Even if some random person on the street gave me 200K, I'd feel guilty spending it on a Fordham degree.

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romothesavior
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Re: Fordham (sticker) v. Wake forest (23,000/year)

Postby romothesavior » Mon Feb 06, 2012 3:54 pm

MrAnon wrote:Describing Fordham/Wake Forest as better than Syracuse/Buffalo shows some misunderstanding of the situation. No employer is going to be floored by any graduate of these schools.

You've been much more rational than your usual self lately, but this is kind of a silly statement. Fordham has historically had pretty good biglaw numbers for a non-T14. Getting an NLJ firm there (or a solid firm in NYC that is non-NLJ) is a realistic and attainable goal for a pretty good chunk of Fordham grads. The same certainly can't be said about Syracuse or Buffalo. They are very different types of schools.

Does Fordham's cost justify the risks/rewards? That's another conversation, and I certainly would never go to a school that is so stingy and expensive. But that's a different conversation for another day. Employers obviously think much better of Fordham than the other schools you listed, and objective job data backs that up.

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Grizz
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Re: Fordham (sticker) v. Wake forest (23,000/year)

Postby Grizz » Mon Feb 06, 2012 4:30 pm

romothesavior wrote:
Marie34 wrote:Thanks everyone for all your advice its helping a lot! Except I should've added something from the beginning. My parents have genorously offered to pay my way through law school no matter where I choose to go, so I really don't have to worry about loans or debt. But the thought of dropping over 70K at Fordham is making me feel guilty in even asking them to shell out that much considering I attended an expensive private school for undergrad.

And I'm mostly worried about the job placement after school. It seems the general consensus of Wake Forest is that its good for getting jobs in NC solely, and I don't wish or plan to be working there.

If your parents can afford to drop $200,000+ on your degree, then they are loaded enough that you shouldn't feel guilty about going to Fordham.

If you want to work in NYC and do corporate law, then you should go there over Wake.

Agreed. Also though, the chances are more likely than not that you will not do corporate law from Fordham (at least at large firms, which do a lot of the NYC corporate law), so keep that in mind.




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