michigan (45k) vs. chicago

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skers
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Re: michigan (45k) vs. chicago

Postby skers » Fri Feb 03, 2012 2:44 pm

Isn't firm placement the only real place to differentiate here? Michigan and Chicago have similar LRAP programs and I doubt there's a substantial difference in PI placement.

Really, comparing schools like this is difficult. I chose Chicago because I felt safer if I end up being median or below. There's definitely a strong case for lessening debt load. With something like 67k I would definitely take Michigan.

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IAFG
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Re: michigan (45k) vs. chicago

Postby IAFG » Fri Feb 03, 2012 2:53 pm

blowhard wrote:
Edit: Thought of one more without a job...someone who is median but has a PI background and flat-out told firms he was only looking for a job for a few years to pay off loans. Not sure how you'd account for such lack of judgments from the PI people who still bid.

Well I heard a UChi girl say, at a pre-OCI firm event, that she wouldn't mind living in New York "for a summer" so don't think poor judgment is unique to UMich.

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Re: michigan (45k) vs. chicago

Postby 03121202698008 » Fri Feb 03, 2012 2:57 pm

TemporarySaint wrote:Isn't firm placement the only real place to differentiate here? Michigan and Chicago have similar LRAP programs and I doubt there's a substantial difference in PI placement.

Really, comparing schools like this is difficult. I chose Chicago because I felt safer if I end up being median or below. There's definitely a strong case for lessening debt load. With something like 67k I would definitely take Michigan.


The problem is they are both great schools. Comparing them is impossible, which was what my original point was. Neither is clearly the right choice so all of those saying, "Always Chicago!" are stupid. OP needs to provide much more information for people to even begin to be able to provide meaningful advice without being solely all about their school.

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skers
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Re: michigan (45k) vs. chicago

Postby skers » Fri Feb 03, 2012 4:13 pm

blowhard wrote:
TemporarySaint wrote:Isn't firm placement the only real place to differentiate here? Michigan and Chicago have similar LRAP programs and I doubt there's a substantial difference in PI placement.

Really, comparing schools like this is difficult. I chose Chicago because I felt safer if I end up being median or below. There's definitely a strong case for lessening debt load. With something like 67k I would definitely take Michigan.


The problem is they are both great schools. Comparing them is impossible, which was what my original point was. Neither is clearly the right choice so all of those saying, "Always Chicago!" are stupid. OP needs to provide much more information for people to even begin to be able to provide meaningful advice without being solely all about their school.


I wouldn't say comparison is impossible. We've consistently seen Chicago have better placement. It's not huge, but 15% is something and it seems overly convenient to say that gap is covered by self-selection.

However, like you said they're both great schools and the choice between Chicago and Michigan with money is all about personal preference.

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IAFG
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Re: michigan (45k) vs. chicago

Postby IAFG » Fri Feb 03, 2012 4:28 pm

TemporarySaint wrote:I wouldn't say comparison is impossible. We've consistently seen Chicago have better placement. It's not huge, but 15% is something and it seems overly convenient to say that gap is covered by self-selection.

However, like you said they're both great schools and the choice between Chicago and Michigan with money is all about personal preference.

Okay but if you take that 15% and then say that what, 10% is accounted for by self selection? 5%? 7%? We don't know, but people at Michigan suspect it accounts for some of it. And I believe them, because I suspect that maaaany more people at Michigan are PI focused than those at Northwestern. The point is, realizing that 15% is not large, and other factors may be nipping at that number, an applicant is going to have to decide how much that advantage is worth to them. FWIW, when I compare my monthly payments (on a similar scholarship to that contemplated by OP) to my SO's monthly payments (who paid sticker) it's non-trivial. Looking back, knowing we were both going to find employment, I'm damn glad I have the scholarship. If it were sticker v. sticker, I'd recommend UChi all day every day, but it's not.

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skers
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Re: michigan (45k) vs. chicago

Postby skers » Fri Feb 03, 2012 5:11 pm

I think part of the problem with the self-selection card is that it at least somewhat insinuates that those who aren't going for big law could've gotten it if they want to. It's worth noting that even though as you note there are way more PI focused people at NU, the two schools' NLJ250 placement is basically equal. That seems to indicate more that peer schools are peer rather than self-selection is that big of a factor.

You're point about 0L's not properly understanding what a burden tens of thousands of dollars of debt is. 45k, especially considering interest, is quite a bit to consider.

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Flash
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Re: michigan (45k) vs. chicago

Postby Flash » Fri Feb 03, 2012 5:12 pm

The correct answer is don't be a fucking loser and go do something worthwhile with your life.

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Emma.
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Re: michigan (45k) vs. chicago

Postby Emma. » Fri Feb 03, 2012 11:26 pm

Flash wrote:The correct answer is don't be a fucking loser and go do something worthwhile with your life.


This.

But if you are set on LS, I'm paying ~$50k extra to be at Chicago over what Mich would have cost, and have no regrets.

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Re: michigan (45k) vs. chicago

Postby TaipeiMort » Sat Feb 04, 2012 4:38 am

Michigan is an awesome school. It is in a nice place and does well in a good number of markets. If you are confident you will be in the top third, it is probably the best place to go with scholly over Chicago.

However, if you think you will be below the top third, or if you think you can end up in the top twenty percent at Chicago, then Chicago is likely the better option for you.

People at the top of Chicago have better options than people in the top of Michigan (at least in terms of the best appellate clerkships and most prestigious boutique and big firm gigs).

Also, people who end up below the top third at Michigan may be worse off than those at the near bottom of Chicago's class. Unless you make the top 20 percent at Chicago, your OCI interviews are largely about hustle and fit; most firms lack hard GPA cutoffs and don't really differentiate much. I have friends at the bottom who did better than my friends with great grades.

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IAFG
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Re: michigan (45k) vs. chicago

Postby IAFG » Sat Feb 04, 2012 4:44 am

TaipeiMort wrote:Michigan is an awesome school. It is in a nice place and does well in a good number of markets. If you are confident you will be in the top third, it is probably the best place to go with scholly over Chicago.

However, if you think you will be below the top third, or if you think you can end up in the top twenty percent at Chicago, then Chicago is likely the better option for you.

People at the top of Chicago have better options than people in the top of Michigan (at least in terms of the best appellate clerkships and most prestigious boutique and big firm gigs).

Also, people who end up below the top third at Michigan may be worse off than those at the near bottom of Chicago's class. Unless you make the top 20 percent at Chicago, your OCI interviews are largely about hustle and fit; most firms lack hard GPA cutoffs and don't really differentiate much. I have friends at the bottom who did better than my friends with great grades.


People predict very, very poorly how they will do so no one should made decisions based on their predictions.

edit: also your statements are internally inconsistent

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Emma.
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Re: michigan (45k) vs. chicago

Postby Emma. » Sat Feb 04, 2012 11:35 am

IAFG wrote:
TaipeiMort wrote:Michigan is an awesome school. It is in a nice place and does well in a good number of markets. If you are confident you will be in the top third, it is probably the best place to go with scholly over Chicago.

However, if you think you will be below the top third, or if you think you can end up in the top twenty percent at Chicago, then Chicago is likely the better option for you.

People at the top of Chicago have better options than people in the top of Michigan (at least in terms of the best appellate clerkships and most prestigious boutique and big firm gigs).

Also, people who end up below the top third at Michigan may be worse off than those at the near bottom of Chicago's class. Unless you make the top 20 percent at Chicago, your OCI interviews are largely about hustle and fit; most firms lack hard GPA cutoffs and don't really differentiate much. I have friends at the bottom who did better than my friends with great grades.


People predict very, very poorly how they will do so no one should made decisions based on their predictions.

edit: also your statements are internally inconsistent


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