michigan (45k) vs. chicago

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dinamo88
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michigan (45k) vs. chicago

Postby dinamo88 » Fri Jan 27, 2012 5:22 pm

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Last edited by dinamo88 on Sat Aug 17, 2013 6:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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ScrabbleChamp
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Re: michigan (45k) vs. chicago

Postby ScrabbleChamp » Fri Jan 27, 2012 5:24 pm

dinamo88 wrote:This is a hypothetical

dinamo88
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Re: michigan (45k) vs. chicago

Postby dinamo88 » Fri Jan 27, 2012 5:35 pm

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AreJay711
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Re: michigan (45k) vs. chicago

Postby AreJay711 » Fri Jan 27, 2012 5:42 pm

It is probably worth pursuing the Chicago admit. If you had both, it is a toss up and go to the one you like better. Paying back probably $65k less would make kind of a big difference for quality of life.

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ScrabbleChamp
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Re: michigan (45k) vs. chicago

Postby ScrabbleChamp » Fri Jan 27, 2012 5:43 pm

Just be happy with your money at Michigan. It is a great school and, chances are, as you were WL'd at Chicago, if you get in, you'll be looking at full price. Unless you have a reason you NEED to be in Chicago or you want the whole law & economics thing, I'd go with Michigan + $15k/year.

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Hjones33
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Re: michigan (45k) vs. chicago

Postby Hjones33 » Fri Jan 27, 2012 5:44 pm

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Nelson
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Re: michigan (45k) vs. chicago

Postby Nelson » Fri Jan 27, 2012 5:45 pm

AreJay711 wrote:It is probably worth pursuing the Chicago admit. If you had both, it is a toss up and go to the one you like better.

TITCR. You have nothing to lose by writing a LOCI and riding the waitlist. Then I think Michigan with $ vs. Chicago is a toss up.

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Doorkeeper
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Re: michigan (45k) vs. chicago

Postby Doorkeeper » Fri Jan 27, 2012 5:47 pm

What are your career goals? What are you geographic preferences? Do you like larger or smaller class sizes? Do you want urban or rural?

If you are unsure about these questions, I would try to make it off the WL to determine which you like better.

ralph_pootawn
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Re: michigan (45k) vs. chicago

Postby ralph_pootawn » Fri Jan 27, 2012 8:27 pm

I am in a very similar scenario and would love to hear discussion on this topic.

redbullvodka
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Re: michigan (45k) vs. chicago

Postby redbullvodka » Mon Jan 30, 2012 5:06 pm

Both leaves you with debt that requires Biglaw to deal with.

Chicago's LRAP has a slightly higher income cap I believe, but involves IBR/PI; Michigan is anything under their income cap (70 i think?)

Even in boom times, Chi was ~70-75% NLJ250 while Mich hovered around 50-55%, and anecdotes from OCI this year seem to indicate the same. I think that 20% is significant, as the middle third will feel more comfortable than Mich.

FWIW, my stats (3.63/173) would have more likely than not qualified for 54K out of Mich, and I chose to apply ED to chicago instead (and am attending next year). I really think it's a toss up, and really depends how biglaw/bust you are. It's also nice (I think) that Chi has a home market to go to in addition to NYC. Michigan's diversity of placement was great in boom times, but in this post-recession new normal I don't know how valuable it is. I think this is a useful hypo to discuss regardless.

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20130312
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Re: michigan (45k) vs. chicago

Postby 20130312 » Mon Jan 30, 2012 5:19 pm

Why can't you just wait and see what actually happens with Chicago before you come bother us? Can't you see we're busy?

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BiglawOrBust
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Re: michigan (45k) vs. chicago

Postby BiglawOrBust » Mon Jan 30, 2012 5:35 pm

CHICAGO

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bk1
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Re: michigan (45k) vs. chicago

Postby bk1 » Mon Jan 30, 2012 5:35 pm

InGoodFaith wrote:Why can't you just wait and see what actually happens with Chicago before you come bother us? Can't you see we're busy?


We have important things to do.

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skers
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Re: michigan (45k) vs. chicago

Postby skers » Mon Jan 30, 2012 5:36 pm

redbullvodka wrote:Both leaves you with debt that requires Biglaw to deal with.

Chicago's LRAP has a slightly higher income cap I believe, but involves IBR/PI; Michigan is anything under their income cap (70 i think?)

Even in boom times, Chi was ~70-75% NLJ250 while Mich hovered around 50-55%, and anecdotes from OCI this year seem to indicate the same. I think that 20% is significant, as the middle third will feel more comfortable than Mich.

FWIW, my stats (3.63/173) would have more likely than not qualified for 54K out of Mich, and I chose to apply ED to chicago instead (and am attending next year). I really think it's a toss up, and really depends how biglaw/bust you are. It's also nice (I think) that Chi has a home market to go to in addition to NYC. Michigan's diversity of placement was great in boom times, but in this post-recession new normal I don't know how valuable it is. I think this is a useful hypo to discuss regardless.


This was my reasoning as well for EDing. Within this parameters, neither is a bad option. but it's all worthless unless you actually get in.

83947368
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Re: michigan (45k) vs. chicago

Postby 83947368 » Tue Jan 31, 2012 12:23 am

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Last edited by 83947368 on Wed Jul 25, 2012 2:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Helmholtz
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Re: michigan (45k) vs. chicago

Postby Helmholtz » Tue Jan 31, 2012 12:42 am

UMichigan is a fantastic school and UMich + $45k is a terrific place to be, but UChicago is worth the extra $45k.

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Champion
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Re: michigan (45k) vs. chicago

Postby Champion » Tue Jan 31, 2012 2:46 am

Helmholtz wrote:UMichigan is a fantastic school and UMich + $45k is a terrific place to be, but UChicago is worth the extra $45k.


Any particular reason for this? And would you apply the same logic to Penn/Berkeley with 45k more than UChicago?

09042014
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Re: michigan (45k) vs. chicago

Postby 09042014 » Tue Jan 31, 2012 2:48 am

Uchi has undergrad lingerie parties. That's a plus.

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sach1282
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Re: michigan (45k) vs. chicago

Postby sach1282 » Tue Jan 31, 2012 9:15 am

This thread is relevant to my interests.

I'm currently in at Mich with 54k and on the UChi waitlist. However, COA at UChi is $2660 higher (x3 = ~8k), so the $54k scholarship really translates into $62k less debt. Not saying that amount of money is necessarily a deal-breaker either way, but no reason to not consider it.

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Helmholtz
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Re: michigan (45k) vs. chicago

Postby Helmholtz » Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:07 am

Champion wrote:
Helmholtz wrote:UMichigan is a fantastic school and UMich + $45k is a terrific place to be, but UChicago is worth the extra $45k.


Any particular reason for this? And would you apply the same logic to Penn/Berkeley with 45k more than UChicago?


The difference in the job prospects really is worth at least $45k.

That might be a tougher question. If you know you want California, then Berkeley with $45k might make more sense and if you want NYC, then Penn with $45k might make more sense. But I know less about those two schools than I do about UMich and UChi.

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Champion
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Re: michigan (45k) vs. chicago

Postby Champion » Tue Jan 31, 2012 12:17 pm

Helmholtz wrote:
Champion wrote:
Helmholtz wrote:UMichigan is a fantastic school and UMich + $45k is a terrific place to be, but UChicago is worth the extra $45k.


Any particular reason for this? And would you apply the same logic to Penn/Berkeley with 45k more than UChicago?


The difference in the job prospects really is worth at least $45k.

That might be a tougher question. If you know you want California, then Berkeley with $45k might make more sense and if you want NYC, then Penn with $45k might make more sense. But I know less about those two schools than I do about UMich and UChi.


Thanks, in my case it's Penn vs. UChi and I want to practice in NY. I'm also in at Berkeley and Michigan...therefore I'm guessing that P/M/B will all match each other and it will come down to my preference of the three with more money vs. Chicago.

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skers
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Re: michigan (45k) vs. chicago

Postby skers » Tue Jan 31, 2012 1:26 pm

Adm.Doppleganger wrote:The income cap is 80k at Michigan I think. Also I would guess Mich's 50% NLJ250 placement includes some self-selection away from Biglaw. I just kind of doubt V & P have 10% higher placement power based on reputation alone. Also note in the old (boom times) graph below that Chicago's at about 65% maybe 5% more than Mich's peer UPenn.

Not to argue that Chicago doesn't have better placement when you include other desireable jobs not included in the NLJ 250 figure. Just saying.

http://pdfserver.amlaw.com/nlj/20080414 ... trends.pdf


Based on the most recent employment data I've seen from Chicago, 65.5% of those eligible for SAs got V100 positions (with a third of those eligible for SAs getting V20 positions, 72% got NLJ250, 80% got biglaw/regional big law. Those a very impressive numbers ITE. I'd be surprised if Michigan matched those numbers, even accounting for some indeterminate group of people who self-select away from big law, though it'd be fantastic if one of our Michigan posters could provide last year's summer empolyment data.

All that said, Helmholtz probably has a better grasp on the nuances on Mich and Chi placement than any of us.

barneytrouble
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Re: michigan (45k) vs. chicago

Postby barneytrouble » Tue Jan 31, 2012 2:18 pm

Michigan probably suffered more relative to other top schools by being a school that placed well across the midwest, which got hid way harder overall by the economy crashing.

83947368
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Re: michigan (45k) vs. chicago

Postby 83947368 » Thu Feb 02, 2012 1:20 am

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Nobody
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Re: michigan (45k) vs. chicago

Postby Nobody » Thu Feb 02, 2012 11:11 am

Desert Fox wrote:Uchi has undergrad lingerie parties. That's a plus.


Full of Uchi undergrads.




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