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Re: Happiness vs. Program

Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 3:49 pm
by moneybagsphd
InGoodFaith wrote:
IAFG wrote:
tennisking88 wrote:I think we're downplaying a bit how unhappy s/he would be elsewhere, even if it's a much better program. In terms of employment, it's prob best to go to the more prestigious school rather the better PROGRAM at a lower ranked school. However, if this is a situation where your bf/gf is at the less-prestigious school or in the area, and you'd be miserable without him/her, I would stay regardless. Guess my point is that we don't know why she would be so happy at School X vs. School Y, so it's premature to assume better job prospects trump higher personal satisfaction.

oh god... no. everything about this, just no. no no no no no.


Despite the flak from previous posters, I'm gonna have to second IAFG's "no no no no." You're going to law school because you want a legal career. This is about your future profession, not some abstract notion of what you think would make you happy.

The point is that you can balance your legal career with other facets of your life. I'm not saying anyone should go to the local TTT/TTTT over a T14 school because it's convenient for their SO. But it might be reasonable to choose MVPB over CCN because it's convenient for your partner.

Re: Happiness vs. Program

Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 4:19 pm
by JoeMo
moneybagsphd wrote:The point is that you can balance your legal career with other facets of your life. I'm not saying anyone should go to the local TTT/TTTT over a T14 school because it's convenient for their SO. But it might be reasonable to choose MVPB over CCN because it's convenient for your partner.


I'll cosign this statement. I'm currently in at Mich (my dream school) waiting to hear back from Columbia, Penn and Berkeley. None of them are as appealing to me as Michigan but they're obviously better ranked (Columbia) or similarly ranked (Berkeley and Penn). Since I won't be working during LS, my husband has to work. The economy in Michigan is pretty shitty and he started looking the minute I found out I was in at Mich and has pretty much been hitting a brick wall ever since. If I were to get into C or PB then I would have to analyze at that point and if it's easier for him to find a job in CA, NY, PA then I might reconsider for that reason alone.

Re: Happiness vs. Program

Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 4:23 pm
by johansantana21
Obviously, lower T14 placement power is negligible.

Re: Happiness vs. Program

Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 4:36 pm
by JoeMo
johansantana21 wrote:Obviously, lower T14 placement power is negligible.


I'll also cosign this. I just don't know which two programs OP is considering. One person mentioned H vs. S which is even more negligible.

Re: Happiness vs. Program

Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 8:32 pm
by IAFG
moneybagsphd wrote:
InGoodFaith wrote:
IAFG wrote:
tennisking88 wrote:I think we're downplaying a bit how unhappy s/he would be elsewhere, even if it's a much better program. In terms of employment, it's prob best to go to the more prestigious school rather the better PROGRAM at a lower ranked school. However, if this is a situation where your bf/gf is at the less-prestigious school or in the area, and you'd be miserable without him/her, I would stay regardless. Guess my point is that we don't know why she would be so happy at School X vs. School Y, so it's premature to assume better job prospects trump higher personal satisfaction.

oh god... no. everything about this, just no. no no no no no.


Despite the flak from previous posters, I'm gonna have to second IAFG's "no no no no." You're going to law school because you want a legal career. This is about your future profession, not some abstract notion of what you think would make you happy.

The point is that you can balance your legal career with other facets of your life. I'm not saying anyone should go to the local TTT/TTTT over a T14 school because it's convenient for their SO. But it might be reasonable to choose MVPB over CCN because it's convenient for your partner.

That's fair, since the placement differences btw CCN-MVP-DCN are not incredibly different than one another, but that should be the first consideration anyway: 1) are the job prospects at the schools I am considering substantially different for my field of interest? If not, 2) Are there soft factors that make one school a better choice for me than the others?

Re: Happiness vs. Program

Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 8:47 pm
by AreJay711
romothesavior wrote:
Hjones33 wrote:Even then, does it really matter? No disrespect to vermont law school, but is an enviro firm going to be giddy to get an applicant from Vermont over any local state school in the top 100?

I am more asking than trying to prove you wrong because like I said I am a zeroL and just know what people have told me.

Your hunch is right. Grades and school prestige will get you a lot further for environmental jobs than some environmental program at Vermont.


True. Vermont cleans house in environmental law in small firms (at least in my home market of Maryland) but most people in the T14 consider that "shitlaw" and overall getting a good, paying legal job is more important than working in a specific area of law.

Re: Happiness vs. Program

Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 8:48 pm
by mrloblaw
tennisking88 wrote:I think we're downplaying a bit how unhappy s/he would be elsewhere, even if it's a much better program. In terms of employment, it's prob best to go to the more prestigious school rather the better PROGRAM at a lower ranked school. However, if this is a situation where your bf/gf is at the less-prestigious school or in the area, and you'd be miserable without him/her, I would stay regardless. Guess my point is that we don't know why she would be so happy at School X vs. School Y, so it's premature to assume better job prospects trump higher personal satisfaction.


There's this breakup/divorce thing. I don't think you've heard of it.

Happiness is an excuse for those who aren't capable of success.

Re: Happiness vs. Program

Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 9:25 pm
by Hjones33
mrloblaw wrote:
tennisking88 wrote:I think we're downplaying a bit how unhappy s/he would be elsewhere, even if it's a much better program. In terms of employment, it's prob best to go to the more prestigious school rather the better PROGRAM at a lower ranked school. However, if this is a situation where your bf/gf is at the less-prestigious school or in the area, and you'd be miserable without him/her, I would stay regardless. Guess my point is that we don't know why she would be so happy at School X vs. School Y, so it's premature to assume better job prospects trump higher personal satisfaction.


There's this breakup/divorce thing. I don't think you've heard of it.

Happiness is an excuse for those who aren't capable of success.


Lol, this isn't the forever alone thread. While I do agree that one shouldn't take a TTT over a t-20, some people like to enjoy life as well as having a good career. They aren't mutually exclusive. I do hope you are kidding though.

Re: Happiness vs. Program

Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 9:29 pm
by ilovesf
justinp wrote:
IAFG wrote:
tennisking88 wrote:I think we're downplaying a bit how unhappy s/he would be elsewhere, even if it's a much better program. In terms of employment, it's prob best to go to the more prestigious school rather the better PROGRAM at a lower ranked school. However, if this is a situation where your bf/gf is at the less-prestigious school or in the area, and you'd be miserable without him/her, I would stay regardless. Guess my point is that we don't know why she would be so happy at School X vs. School Y, so it's premature to assume better job prospects trump higher personal satisfaction.

oh god... no. everything about this, just no. no no no no no.


I bet you're loads of fun at parties...

I don't even know why you said that. IAFG is right. I'm only one semester in and I've seen loads of relationships crash and burn. Choosing a law school based on a boyfriend or girlfriend is a pretty terrible decision. It's one thing if you're married, but a boyfriend? Come on.

Re: Happiness vs. Program

Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 1:02 am
by cylon_clone
If you're the type of person whose academic success is linked to happiness, then I'd say choose the school that makes you happiest. But be conscious that this happiness might not last if you graduate from a lower-ranked law school and can't find a decent job...especially when you could have gone to another school ranked 50 slots higher, has 20% higher employment and an extra $70K/yr avg starting salary if you could have absorbed a little unhappiness for 3 years.

But, if we're taking about gf or bf influence in your choice, then under NO circumstances would I adjust my school choice for someone if I'm not married or engaged. If they are someone you're building a future with, then some compromise should be discussed.

There are similar ranked schools (overall, NOT by program) that have various geographic locations, QOL and COL that can facilitate compromise - or at least a balance between rank and happiness.

Re: Happiness vs. Program

Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 1:20 am
by Grizz
AreJay711 wrote:
romothesavior wrote:
Hjones33 wrote:Even then, does it really matter? No disrespect to vermont law school, but is an enviro firm going to be giddy to get an applicant from Vermont over any local state school in the top 100?

I am more asking than trying to prove you wrong because like I said I am a zeroL and just know what people have told me.

Your hunch is right. Grades and school prestige will get you a lot further for environmental jobs than some environmental program at Vermont.


True. Vermont cleans house in environmental law in small firms (at least in my home market of Maryland) but most people in the T14 consider that "shitlaw" and overall getting a good, paying legal job is more important than working in a specific area of law.

I interviewed at the top enviro boutique in a Southern state and they seemed to care much more about grades and ties then a strong commitment to enviro.

Re: Happiness vs. Program

Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 3:07 am
by handwringin
mrloblaw wrote:
tennisking88 wrote:I think we're downplaying a bit how unhappy s/he would be elsewhere, even if it's a much better program. In terms of employment, it's prob best to go to the more prestigious school rather the better PROGRAM at a lower ranked school. However, if this is a situation where your bf/gf is at the less-prestigious school or in the area, and you'd be miserable without him/her, I would stay regardless. Guess my point is that we don't know why she would be so happy at School X vs. School Y, so it's premature to assume better job prospects trump higher personal satisfaction.


There's this breakup/divorce thing. I don't think you've heard of it.

Happiness is an excuse for those who aren't capable of success.


Not sure if troll...? Either way i think i threw up in my mouth a little.

As for the question itself, I think it's kind of an unanswerable without knowing the two schools you're deciding between.

At the same time, what makes you think you'd be miserable at the higher ranked school? Just because it's harder? Shouldn't you be excited about the opportunity to take classes from (supposedly) better professors in a more active academic environment? If you're really that desperate to avoid hard work, you might want to do some soul searching about the whole law school thing in the first place.

Re: Happiness vs. Program

Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 10:09 am
by JoeMo
Grizz wrote:I interviewed at the top enviro boutique in a Southern state and they seemed to care much more about grades and ties then a strong commitment to enviro.


Ha! This is interesting and this is where I think TLS is a great resource. Pretty much ever talking head at recruiting events that I've been to says Vermont has the best enviro program and placement for enviro. (Granted, not a program I'm interested in)

True story: The dean of admissions at Vermont pretty much told me at a recruiting even that if I had no interest in enviro law that I should not even bother applying to their school.

Re: Happiness vs. Program

Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 12:41 pm
by mrloblaw
JoeMo wrote:
Grizz wrote:I interviewed at the top enviro boutique in a Southern state and they seemed to care much more about grades and ties then a strong commitment to enviro.


Ha! This is interesting and this is where I think TLS is a great resource. Pretty much ever talking head at recruiting events that I've been to says Vermont has the best enviro program and placement for enviro. (Granted, not a program I'm interested in)

True story: The dean of admissions at Vermont pretty much told me at a recruiting event that if I had no interest in enviro law that I should not even bother applying to their school.


Credited.

Re: Happiness vs. Program

Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 12:53 pm
by JoeMo
mrloblaw wrote:
JoeMo wrote:
Grizz wrote:I interviewed at the top enviro boutique in a Southern state and they seemed to care much more about grades and ties then a strong commitment to enviro.


Ha! This is interesting and this is where I think TLS is a great resource. Pretty much ever talking head at recruiting events that I've been to says Vermont has the best enviro program and placement for enviro. (Granted, not a program I'm interested in)

True story: The dean of admissions at Vermont pretty much told me at a recruiting event that if I had no interest in enviro law that I should not even bother applying to their school.


Credited.


You received the same flippant response? Or you're just saying nobody should bother applying to Vermont? Or are you telling me that I shouldn't bother going to LS? *confused*

Re: Happiness vs. Program

Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 3:31 pm
by bobbyh1919
I think it's just a swipe at Vermont.

Re: Happiness vs. Program

Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 3:33 pm
by JoeMo
bobbyh1919 wrote:I think it's just a swipe at Vermont.


Yeah, I thought so too.

Re: Happiness vs. Program

Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 4:07 pm
by mrloblaw
JoeMo wrote:
bobbyh1919 wrote:I think it's just a swipe at Vermont.


Yeah, I thought so too.


While there are a few TTT's in the country worth attending, any place that tries to lure in students off the strength of its environmental law program? Danger, Will Robinson.