Georgetown for BigGov

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slsplease
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Georgetown for BigGov

Postby slsplease » Sun Jan 22, 2012 9:24 pm

If someone is interested in getting into a GC office at a cabinet-level Federal office, wouldn't Georgetown be one of the better choices in the T14 (other than HYS)? I'm interning in DC at a BigGov GC office and there are lots of interns from GW and Georgetown that are interning part time while going to class. This seems like a really great opportunity to build extra experience in advance of 1L and 2L OCI and they are certain to have an advantage over other applicants for full time positions as long as they did well in their internships.

I can see why Georgetown isn't a better choice than the rest of the T14 for someone absolutely set on BigLaw, but if I am still on the fence about wanting BigLaw right off the bat, or BigGov -> BigLaw, it seems like Georgetown would offer a great opportunity to build a network in DC, especially if I plan on working here after law school.

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IAFG
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Re: Georgetown for BigGov

Postby IAFG » Sun Jan 22, 2012 9:28 pm

The biggest problem is that gov't really isn't hiring right now. If it will be better in 2-3 years? Who knows. I agree with your premise though: if you know you want to work at "off the beaten path" of employers that recruit at OCIs, you're better off going to a school local to your target market and doing everything you can to build up your network and connections.

bdubs
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Re: Georgetown for BigGov

Postby bdubs » Sun Jan 22, 2012 9:40 pm

slsplease wrote:If someone is interested in getting into a GC office at a cabinet-level Federal office


I don't really know what type of position you are referring to, but that is obviously not a post law school position. Many people who are in high level government positions have worked outside of those organizations at some point in their career. I wouldn't constrain yourself to thinking that going into government work right out of law school is the only way to get where you want to go. There is a real difference between GULC and higher ranked T14, don't let the location cloud your vision too much.

DouglasDevelopment
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Re: Georgetown for BigGov

Postby DouglasDevelopment » Sun Jan 22, 2012 10:18 pm

If you're looking to go into government, GULC is a solid choice. Lots of people here take externships during the school year and, as you pointed out, that's a great way to network with people making the hiring decisions.

As bdubs said, there is a difference between GULC and the rest of the T14 for biglaw placement, although I don't see how that applies to government hiring.

The GULC hate on this site is really out of hand. The difference in placement is because GULC has to place 2-3 times the amount of students, not because partners/government lawyers think it's markedly worse than Cornell or whatever other non-T6 school.

09042014
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Re: Georgetown for BigGov

Postby 09042014 » Sun Jan 22, 2012 11:10 pm

DouglasDevelopment wrote:If you're looking to go into government, GULC is a solid choice. Lots of people here take externships during the school year and, as you pointed out, that's a great way to network with people making the hiring decisions.

As bdubs said, there is a difference between GULC and the rest of the T14 for biglaw placement, although I don't see how that applies to government hiring.

The GULC hate on this site is really out of hand. The difference in placement is because GULC has to place 2-3 times the amount of students, not because partners/government lawyers think it's markedly worse than Cornell or whatever other non-T6 school.


2-3 times the placement and no clear home market (DC grade whores too much) to suck up a decent chunk of their class. But I'd bet most firms don't really think of Gulc as being different than UVA. Why should they, the student quality is the same?

I think just being the only t14 focused in DC might hurt their placement data. Because you gotta figure a large percent of their class aims for DC. At similarly ranked schools that is the kiss of death. It would be interesting to have total access to placement data. See if kids aiming for NYC did similar to UVA students.

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IAFG
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Re: Georgetown for BigGov

Postby IAFG » Sun Jan 22, 2012 11:22 pm

I do think GULC's bad reputation on TLS might be not totally deserved. When I lived in DC, I knew a couple of GULC JDs/students who weren't ever really intending to get firm work. They were people who already had a few years of Hill or policy work and saw it as an alternative to an MPP or other grad program to be able to advance in the line of work they're already in. One guy I knew was a lobbyist with Hill experience prior to LS, another worked as a policy analyst for a special interest group and then became their GC after graduating. That sort of alternative path isn't something I ever hear about in Chicago or among NU students. I gotta imagine that's hurting their placement stats when you're looking at NLJ250 firm placement.

slsplease
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Re: Georgetown for BigGov

Postby slsplease » Sun Jan 22, 2012 11:43 pm

IAFG that is something I was getting at. A lot of the people I meet here that go to GULC are pretty focused in what they want to do, and often have already worked in a specific industry or policy area and want to go back after they get their law degree.

That said, I don't know what the hiring stats are for BigGov these days. If it is indeed true that very few positions will be available in the next 3 years, then it does make sense to avoid putting yourself in a position where you are between a rock and a hard place in terms of placement stats.

I can't imagine too many people get into Gtown that don't also get into at least Cornell or Michigan - if my LSAT is at a 168 I feel like I could easily ED into Mich or U Va, so I do anticipate being faced with a tough decision.

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Grizz
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Re: Georgetown for BigGov

Postby Grizz » Sun Jan 22, 2012 11:46 pm

slsplease wrote:That said, I don't know what the hiring stats are for BigGov these days. If it is indeed true that very few positions will be available in the next 3 years, then it does make sense to avoid putting yourself in a position where you are between a rock and a hard place in terms of placement stats.

I can't imagine too many people get into Gtown that don't also get into at least Cornell or Michigan - if my LSAT is at a 168 I feel like I could easily ED into Mich or U Va, so I do anticipate being faced with a tough decision.

Bigfed basically isn't hiring lawyers right now.

Whether you can ED UVA largely depends on whether you are above their GPA median. Your LSAT median is too low.

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Veyron
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Re: Georgetown for BigGov

Postby Veyron » Sun Jan 22, 2012 11:47 pm

Yes. I don't understand why all these people are spouting off about UVA. UVA will give you 1L summer in gov and 1 crack at honors programs. If you go to GULC you could potentially intern at and make connections at a ton of government agencies before you graduate.
Last edited by Veyron on Sun Jan 22, 2012 11:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

bdubs
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Re: Georgetown for BigGov

Postby bdubs » Sun Jan 22, 2012 11:48 pm

The point i was trying to make is that OP shouldn't rule out going to biglaw before pursuing government work. Most of the government lawyers I knew in DC were ex-biglaw associates. The government pay is a lot better when you have a few years of experience and I assume you would do less grunt work as an experienced lateral.

The other problem with GULC and DC in general, is that there are almost 2,000 GULC students and another 1,750 at GW trying to "network" their way into these government orgs. In all likelihood you won't be able to crack the particular organization you want, and even if you do there will probably be 10x more interns than available positions (if any). Going into a high ranking biglaw firm that is strong in your area of interest and then trying to lateral in as an experienced hire is much more likely to work out well for you. Taking this approach, the downside is that you wind up without the position you wanted but still employed with good experience.

I am not extreme on the anti-GULC camp, but I do think that you would be better off going to a CCNMVP if that is an option. The benefits of DNC (without a $ difference) over GULC are probably not large enough to outweigh the advantages for OPs field of interest though.

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IAFG
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Re: Georgetown for BigGov

Postby IAFG » Sun Jan 22, 2012 11:55 pm

bdubs wrote:The other problem with GULC and DC in general, is that there are almost 2,000 GULC students and another 1,750 at GW trying to "network" their way into these government orgs. In all likelihood you won't be able to crack the particular organization you want, and even if you do there will probably be 10x more interns than available positions (if any).

That's assuming all else is held equal. As someone with a policy background and some connections in DC prior to law school, I have some faith I could have built on that as a GULC student, had I chosen that route. I know 10+ people at NU who were in similar positions. I have to imagine the number of people at GULC with a sufficient foothold in DC to be able to land a job at a nonprofit/special interest group/gov't agency/lobby shop/NGO are several fold the number here.

barneytrouble
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Re: Georgetown for BigGov

Postby barneytrouble » Mon Jan 23, 2012 12:02 am

Normally I lol@ Georgetown. However, if you are not really looking at biglaw, Georgetown's location + LRAP makes it a great choice in my opinion.

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mattviphky
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Re: Georgetown for BigGov

Postby mattviphky » Mon Jan 23, 2012 2:33 am

If you want the best shot at govt that you can get...military for 4 years-->law school with gi bill--> get vets preference for govt hiring---> get good govt job while having no debt.

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Veyron
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Re: Georgetown for BigGov

Postby Veyron » Mon Jan 23, 2012 12:48 pm

mattviphky wrote:If you want the best shot at govt that you can get...military for 4 years-->law school with gi bill--> get vets preference for govt hiring---> get good govt job while having no debt.


CR.

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SemperLegal
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Re: Georgetown for BigGov

Postby SemperLegal » Mon Jan 23, 2012 1:56 pm

mattviphky wrote:If you want the best shot at govt that you can get...military for 4 years-->law school with gi bill--> get vets preference for govt hiring---> get good govt job while having no debt.



Attorney jobs are specifically excepted from the normal civil service procedures. This means they do not use absolute or 10-point veteran preferences, and instead are allowed to be "holistic."

However, some departments were given executive directives to consider military service as a huge "soft." The only department that I know for a fact to do this is the Dept. of Veteran's Affairs, though I have no reason to doubt that others do.




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