Rutgers-Newark vs. Seton Hall (with $)

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romothesavior
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Re: Rutgers-Newark vs. Seton Hall (with $)

Postby romothesavior » Mon Jan 30, 2012 3:39 pm

iceicebaby wrote:OK, that's it. I'm not going to law school now. Time to bust out the resume and change career paths entirely. I suppose the past 3 years have been for nothing.

Just a curious question, what would you say if I got $35k/year scholly at Quinnipiac (which I did)? Would going there for next to nothing or about $30k total tops still be a bad idea? Or is your bottom line basically "if you don't score in the 90-something percentile on the LSAT, you shouldn't go to law school at all"? At what point, if ever, is it worth it for you guys?

You clearly are not reading what I'm writing. I said on the last page that I think law school might be a good idea for you, just not at these schools. I'm not trying to talk you out of going to law school, I'm trying to talk you out of going into debt to go to schools which offer poor prospects of managing that debt. Ideally, you should retake the LSAT and reapply. It isn't like you have to go to law school RIGHT NOW.

To answer your other question, f I couldn't go to a top school (see T14ish), I would go somewhere for free in the region I want to work in. No tuition, no stipulations. Its not about elitism and going to the best school possible just for the sake of it. You are trying to minimize your risk by either 1) going cheaply or 2) going somewhere with stellar job prospects. So I would tell you (as I have told others) to go to like a local T2 or T3 on a full ride. You're still taking a risk by giving up three years of salary, but it is less of a risk than taking out debt to go to Seton Hall or Rutgers.

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Grizz
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Re: Rutgers-Newark vs. Seton Hall (with $)

Postby Grizz » Mon Jan 30, 2012 3:48 pm

iceicebaby wrote:At what point, if ever, is it worth it for you guys?


Went to a UCLA/Vandy/UT school for a scholarship worth over half tuition. Should work out, but I feel like I came out on the good sign of a scary coin flip.

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iceicebaby
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Re: Rutgers-Newark vs. Seton Hall (with $)

Postby iceicebaby » Mon Jan 30, 2012 3:53 pm

Grizz wrote:
iceicebaby wrote:At what point, if ever, is it worth it for you guys?


Went to a UCLA/Vandy/UT school for a scholarship worth over half tuition. Should work out, but I feel like I came out on the good sign of a scary coin flip.


Yeah, that's awesome man. I mean it when I wish the best of luck to you!

romothesavior wrote:
iceicebaby wrote:OK, that's it. I'm not going to law school now. Time to bust out the resume and change career paths entirely. I suppose the past 3 years have been for nothing.

Just a curious question, what would you say if I got $35k/year scholly at Quinnipiac (which I did)? Would going there for next to nothing or about $30k total tops still be a bad idea? Or is your bottom line basically "if you don't score in the 90-something percentile on the LSAT, you shouldn't go to law school at all"? At what point, if ever, is it worth it for you guys?

You clearly are not reading what I'm writing. I said on the last page that I think law school might be a good idea for you, just not at these schools. I'm not trying to talk you out of going to law school, I'm trying to talk you out of going into debt to go to schools which offer poor prospects of managing that debt. Ideally, you should retake the LSAT and reapply. It isn't like you have to go to law school RIGHT NOW.

To answer your other question, f I couldn't go to a top school (see T14ish), I would go somewhere for free in the region I want to work in. No tuition, no stipulations. Its not about elitism and going to the best school possible just for the sake of it. You are trying to minimize your risk by either 1) going cheaply or 2) going somewhere with stellar job prospects. So I would tell you (as I have told others) to go to like a local T2 or T3 on a full ride. You're still taking a risk by giving up three years of salary, but it is less of a risk than taking out debt to go to Seton Hall or Rutgers.


Sorry if I misread. So you'd recommend taking the large $30k+/year scholly offer at a place like Quinnipiac? This is something I am thinking about, but there is a top 50% stip on that scholly with a 1/2 award for top 75%. Is this not good enough, even though I expect to be top 50% at QU Law? I appreciate you sticking with me here itt.

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romothesavior
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Re: Rutgers-Newark vs. Seton Hall (with $)

Postby romothesavior » Mon Jan 30, 2012 3:59 pm

I don't know much about Quinnipiac, but what little I do know leads me to conclude that a near-full ride there is a lower-risk decision than going to Rutgers without money or Seton Hall with a small, heavily-stipulated scholarship. I have no idea about their placement or anything like that, but it is cheaper, which is good. I would try to negotiate those scholarship stips though, because you really have no way of guessing or assuming you are going to finish in the top 50%.

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iceicebaby
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Re: Rutgers-Newark vs. Seton Hall (with $)

Postby iceicebaby » Mon Jan 30, 2012 4:09 pm

romothesavior wrote:I don't know much about Quinnipiac, but what little I do know leads me to conclude that a near-full ride there is a lower-risk decision than going to Rutgers without money or Seton Hall with a small, heavily-stipulated scholarship. I have no idea about their placement or anything like that, but it is cheaper, which is good. I would try to negotiate those scholarship stips though, because you really have no way of guessing or assuming you are going to finish in the top 50%.


Okay, thanks man. This is solid advice and I appreciate it.

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Re: Rutgers-Newark vs. Seton Hall (with $)

Postby bobbyh1919 » Mon Jan 30, 2012 6:55 pm

iceicebaby wrote:
Grizz wrote:
iceicebaby wrote:At what point, if ever, is it worth it for you guys?


Went to a UCLA/Vandy/UT school for a scholarship worth over half tuition. Should work out, but I feel like I came out on the good sign of a scary coin flip.


Yeah, that's awesome man. I mean it when I wish the best of luck to you!

romothesavior wrote:
iceicebaby wrote:OK, that's it. I'm not going to law school now. Time to bust out the resume and change career paths entirely. I suppose the past 3 years have been for nothing.

Just a curious question, what would you say if I got $35k/year scholly at Quinnipiac (which I did)? Would going there for next to nothing or about $30k total tops still be a bad idea? Or is your bottom line basically "if you don't score in the 90-something percentile on the LSAT, you shouldn't go to law school at all"? At what point, if ever, is it worth it for you guys?

You clearly are not reading what I'm writing. I said on the last page that I think law school might be a good idea for you, just not at these schools. I'm not trying to talk you out of going to law school, I'm trying to talk you out of going into debt to go to schools which offer poor prospects of managing that debt. Ideally, you should retake the LSAT and reapply. It isn't like you have to go to law school RIGHT NOW.

To answer your other question, f I couldn't go to a top school (see T14ish), I would go somewhere for free in the region I want to work in. No tuition, no stipulations. Its not about elitism and going to the best school possible just for the sake of it. You are trying to minimize your risk by either 1) going cheaply or 2) going somewhere with stellar job prospects. So I would tell you (as I have told others) to go to like a local T2 or T3 on a full ride. You're still taking a risk by giving up three years of salary, but it is less of a risk than taking out debt to go to Seton Hall or Rutgers.


Sorry if I misread. So you'd recommend taking the large $30k+/year scholly offer at a place like Quinnipiac? This is something I am thinking about, but there is a top 50% stip on that scholly with a 1/2 award for top 75%. Is this not good enough, even though I expect to be top 50% at QU Law? I appreciate you sticking with me here itt.


I just read last fall's CT OCI thread and it was pretty rough. A lot of the posters in there were doing quite well for themselves at UConn and seemed to be struggling mightily. It seemed as though many firms weren't even taking incoming classes. I can only imagine how Quinnipiac was faring.

I still like Rutgers personally if you're dead set on going to one of the three.

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iceicebaby
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Re: Rutgers-Newark vs. Seton Hall (with $)

Postby iceicebaby » Tue Jan 31, 2012 10:47 am

bobbyh1919 wrote:
iceicebaby wrote:
Grizz wrote:
iceicebaby wrote:At what point, if ever, is it worth it for you guys?


Went to a UCLA/Vandy/UT school for a scholarship worth over half tuition. Should work out, but I feel like I came out on the good sign of a scary coin flip.


Yeah, that's awesome man. I mean it when I wish the best of luck to you!

romothesavior wrote:
iceicebaby wrote:OK, that's it. I'm not going to law school now. Time to bust out the resume and change career paths entirely. I suppose the past 3 years have been for nothing.

Just a curious question, what would you say if I got $35k/year scholly at Quinnipiac (which I did)? Would going there for next to nothing or about $30k total tops still be a bad idea? Or is your bottom line basically "if you don't score in the 90-something percentile on the LSAT, you shouldn't go to law school at all"? At what point, if ever, is it worth it for you guys?

You clearly are not reading what I'm writing. I said on the last page that I think law school might be a good idea for you, just not at these schools. I'm not trying to talk you out of going to law school, I'm trying to talk you out of going into debt to go to schools which offer poor prospects of managing that debt. Ideally, you should retake the LSAT and reapply. It isn't like you have to go to law school RIGHT NOW.

To answer your other question, f I couldn't go to a top school (see T14ish), I would go somewhere for free in the region I want to work in. No tuition, no stipulations. Its not about elitism and going to the best school possible just for the sake of it. You are trying to minimize your risk by either 1) going cheaply or 2) going somewhere with stellar job prospects. So I would tell you (as I have told others) to go to like a local T2 or T3 on a full ride. You're still taking a risk by giving up three years of salary, but it is less of a risk than taking out debt to go to Seton Hall or Rutgers.


Sorry if I misread. So you'd recommend taking the large $30k+/year scholly offer at a place like Quinnipiac? This is something I am thinking about, but there is a top 50% stip on that scholly with a 1/2 award for top 75%. Is this not good enough, even though I expect to be top 50% at QU Law? I appreciate you sticking with me here itt.


I just read last fall's CT OCI thread and it was pretty rough. A lot of the posters in there were doing quite well for themselves at UConn and seemed to be struggling mightily. It seemed as though many firms weren't even taking incoming classes. I can only imagine how Quinnipiac was faring.

I still like Rutgers personally if you're dead set on going to one of the three.


Yeah what scares me is that I know even the top Quinnipiac grads are finding it hard to get into the better-paying firm positions as I know one of the top 5 kids couldn't even get a call back from the CT-based firm I work at. I know that it makes sense since it is a TTT, but I feel like at least the top 5 students should be doing work regardless. Since they weren't, it is disconcerting. Then again, almost free education is tempting. But yeah, I think I'm still leaning Rutgers-Newark. I have yet to hear from like 9 other schools, so I suppose its too quick to jump the gun.

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Re: Rutgers-Newark vs. Seton Hall (with $)

Postby mrtoren » Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:00 am

I'm always amazed by the level of "selfless" advice and assistance the TLS community provides to its members. The OP has stated his desire to go to law school. The OP knows a thing or two about law schools and the job market. The OP is choosing between law schools that are respectable institutions, not TTTTT scams. If you don't like that...then leave the thread and don't come back.

OP, you sound like you understand the consequences of your actions. Go to Rutgers and work your tail off. You should do just fine.

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Re: Rutgers-Newark vs. Seton Hall (with $)

Postby iceicebaby » Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:09 am

mrtoren wrote:I'm always amazed by the level of "selfless" advice and assistance the TLS community provides to its members. The OP has stated his desire to go to law school. The OP knows a thing or two about law schools and the job market. The OP is choosing between law schools that are respectable institutions, not TTTTT scams. If you don't like that...then leave the thread and don't come back.

OP, you sound like you understand the consequences of your actions. Go to Rutgers and work your tail off. You should do just fine.


Thanks for the support, brah. :D

I do understand the risks involved and I know what COULD happen. I understand that sometimes things don't work out the way you plan them. And you're right, it is my job is to work hard as hell in order to avoid the worst case scenario at all costs. I kinda hope that through some miracle Wake Forest or UConn (#waitlistingbastards) accept me and make the decision much easier. After that, I have no idea. P.S. my LSN profile is ajdrYNWA if you wanted to see what I'm waiting on still... I am sure I will be writing a new topic when I get all of my options in front of me.

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Re: Rutgers-Newark vs. Seton Hall (with $)

Postby Grizz » Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:30 am

mrtoren wrote:I'm always amazed by the level of "selfless" advice and assistance the TLS community provides to its members. The OP has stated his desire to go to law school. The OP knows a thing or two about law schools and the job market. The OP is choosing between law schools that are respectable institutions, not TTTTT scams. If you don't like that...then leave the thread and don't come back.

OP, you sound like you understand the consequences of your actions. Go to Rutgers and work your tail off. You should do just fine.

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2LT_CPG
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Re: Rutgers-Newark vs. Seton Hall (with $)

Postby 2LT_CPG » Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:31 am

mrtoren wrote:I'm always amazed by the level of "selfless" advice and assistance the TLS community provides to its members. The OP has stated his desire to go to law school. The OP knows a thing or two about law schools and the job market. The OP is choosing between law schools that are respectable institutions, not TTTTT scams. If you don't like that...then leave the thread and don't come back.

OP, you sound like you understand the consequences of your actions. Go to Rutgers and work your tail off. You should do just fine.

+1

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Re: Rutgers-Newark vs. Seton Hall (with $)

Postby Nelson » Tue Jan 31, 2012 12:14 pm

mrtoren wrote:The OP knows a thing or two about law schools and the job market. The OP is choosing between law schools that are respectable institutions, not TTTTT scams.

If either of those statements were true, this thread wouldn't be 6 pages long.

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Re: Rutgers-Newark vs. Seton Hall (with $)

Postby iceicebaby » Tue Jan 31, 2012 12:42 pm

Nelson wrote:
mrtoren wrote:The OP knows a thing or two about law schools and the job market. The OP is choosing between law schools that are respectable institutions, not TTTTT scams.

If either of those statements were true, this thread wouldn't be 6 pages long.


Yeah, because Seton Hall and Rutgers are TTTTT scams. That must mean that you think I don't know shit about law schools or the job market. I guess I can take that criticism knowing that no one knows what the job market is going to be like in 2-3 years and my knowledge of law schools is derived from the countless "bs" I've read from TLS, LSN, LST, LSP, Princeton Review, USN&WR, etc. about the subject over the past four years.

This thread is 6 pages long because some people that have responded seem to think going to a TT or lower-ranking schools than the T14 is the worst idea on the planet and I've maintained that their position is a tad extreme. Disagreement ensued. That's it in a nutshell. In the end it seems everyone that has answered the question has been saying to go to Rutgers at their in-state price vs. Seton Hall, even with a $15k/year scholly, so I am grateful for that feedback. Thanks!

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Re: Rutgers-Newark vs. Seton Hall (with $)

Postby 20130312 » Tue Jan 31, 2012 12:44 pm

iceicebaby wrote:my knowledge of law schools is derived from the countless "bs" I've read from TLS, LSN, LST, LSP, Princeton Review, USN&WR, etc. about the subject over the past four years.


Yeah, despite all these sources telling me the exact same thing, I know I'm a special snowflake!

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iceicebaby
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Re: Rutgers-Newark vs. Seton Hall (with $)

Postby iceicebaby » Tue Jan 31, 2012 12:54 pm

InGoodFaith wrote:
iceicebaby wrote:my knowledge of law schools is derived from the countless "bs" I've read from TLS, LSN, LST, LSP, Princeton Review, USN&WR, etc. about the subject over the past four years.


Yeah, despite all these sources telling me the exact same thing, I know I'm a special snowflake!


No. Just no. I don't think I'm special, but I think my chances are much better than you guys make it out to be. I'm not going into 6-figure debt going to a place like Rutgers or even Seton Hall simply because I know I will get some help. I know that I am lucky in this respect, but certainly not special.

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Re: Rutgers-Newark vs. Seton Hall (with $)

Postby romothesavior » Tue Jan 31, 2012 12:58 pm

mrtoren wrote:I'm always amazed by the level of "selfless" advice and assistance the TLS community provides to its members. The OP has stated his desire to go to law school. The OP knows a thing or two about law schools and the job market. The OP is choosing between law schools that are respectable institutions, not TTTTT scams. If you don't like that...then leave the thread and don't come back.

OP, you sound like you understand the consequences of your actions. Go to Rutgers and work your tail off. You should do just fine
.

You're an idiot.

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iceicebaby
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Re: Rutgers-Newark vs. Seton Hall (with $)

Postby iceicebaby » Tue Jan 31, 2012 1:47 pm

romothesavior wrote:
mrtoren wrote:I'm always amazed by the level of "selfless" advice and assistance the TLS community provides to its members. The OP has stated his desire to go to law school. The OP knows a thing or two about law schools and the job market. The OP is choosing between law schools that are respectable institutions, not TTTTT scams. If you don't like that...then leave the thread and don't come back.

OP, you sound like you understand the consequences of your actions. Go to Rutgers and work your tail off. You should do just fine
.

You're an idiot.


Hey, now, chil'ens let's play nice. We're all in this together whether we like it or not :P

I didn't mean to cause such a stir. Maybe I should do a topic called "Cooley vs. Thomas Jefferson (you jelly bro?)".

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Re: Rutgers-Newark vs. Seton Hall (with $)

Postby keg411 » Tue Jan 31, 2012 2:00 pm

IF YOU ARE FROM NJ -- then Rutgers isn't a bad deal (although I'd try to get some $$ out of them). IF YOU ARE NOT FROM NJ - go to the state school in the state where you are from or a local private school with $$$ equivalent to a state school (only if there is no state school). Going to QU in a crowded and almost non-existent legal market of CT is a bad idea -- if you're from CT, get your scores up so you can go to UConn.

End.

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iceicebaby
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Re: Rutgers-Newark vs. Seton Hall (with $)

Postby iceicebaby » Tue Jan 31, 2012 2:17 pm

keg411 wrote:IF YOU ARE FROM NJ -- then Rutgers isn't a bad deal (although I'd try to get some $$ out of them). IF YOU ARE NOT FROM NJ - go to the state school in the state where you are from or a local private school with $$$ equivalent to a state school (only if there is no state school). Going to QU in a crowded and almost non-existent legal market of CT is a bad idea -- if you're from CT, get your scores up so you can go to UConn.

End.


I'm currently waitlisted at UConn, so we'll see. At Rutgers, you can get in-state tuition as long as you move in before classes start and sign a 12 month (or longer) lease for a place in NJ. That is why I am really considering it if UConn or other schools don't work out. Thanks for the input!

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Re: Rutgers-Newark vs. Seton Hall (with $)

Postby Wholigan » Tue Jan 31, 2012 2:27 pm

iceicebaby wrote:
keg411 wrote:IF YOU ARE FROM NJ -- then Rutgers isn't a bad deal (although I'd try to get some $$ out of them). IF YOU ARE NOT FROM NJ - go to the state school in the state where you are from or a local private school with $$$ equivalent to a state school (only if there is no state school). Going to QU in a crowded and almost non-existent legal market of CT is a bad idea -- if you're from CT, get your scores up so you can go to UConn.

End.


I'm currently waitlisted at UConn, so we'll see. At Rutgers, you can get in-state tuition as long as you move in before classes start and sign a 12 month (or longer) lease for a place in NJ. That is why I am really considering it if UConn or other schools don't work out. Thanks for the input!


I think the reason she added the caveat that you should consider it if you are from NJ speaks to more than just getting in-state tuition. Everyone knows that almost anyone can get in-state if they want to.

The vast, vast majority of private firm (as you said is your goal) jobs which will be available to you from Rutgers are with NJ firms. If you are from outside the area, even if you are near the top of the class, you will be fighting an uphill battle against your classmates with similar grades who have NJ ties for these same jobs.

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iceicebaby
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Re: Rutgers-Newark vs. Seton Hall (with $)

Postby iceicebaby » Tue Jan 31, 2012 2:30 pm

Wholigan wrote:
iceicebaby wrote:
keg411 wrote:IF YOU ARE FROM NJ -- then Rutgers isn't a bad deal (although I'd try to get some $$ out of them). IF YOU ARE NOT FROM NJ - go to the state school in the state where you are from or a local private school with $$$ equivalent to a state school (only if there is no state school). Going to QU in a crowded and almost non-existent legal market of CT is a bad idea -- if you're from CT, get your scores up so you can go to UConn.

End.


I'm currently waitlisted at UConn, so we'll see. At Rutgers, you can get in-state tuition as long as you move in before classes start and sign a 12 month (or longer) lease for a place in NJ. That is why I am really considering it if UConn or other schools don't work out. Thanks for the input!


I think the reason she added the caveat that you should consider it if you are from NJ speaks to more than just getting in-state tuition. Everyone knows that almost anyone can get in-state if they want to.

The vast, vast majority of private firm (as you said is your goal) jobs which will be available to you from Rutgers are with NJ firms. If you are from outside the area, even if you are near the top of the class, you will be fighting an uphill battle against your classmates with similar grades who have NJ ties for these same jobs.


Oh okay, I gotcha. Good point. Would the same be true coming from Seton Hall, or does that school's reach extend beyond NJ?

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Re: Rutgers-Newark vs. Seton Hall (with $)

Postby 20130312 » Tue Jan 31, 2012 2:39 pm

iceicebaby wrote:Oh okay, I gotcha. Good point. Would the same be true coming from Seton Hall, or does that school's reach extend beyond NJ?


Seton Hall is a regional school for North Jersey. It doesn't extend outside of Jersey, not even to NYC.

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iceicebaby
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Re: Rutgers-Newark vs. Seton Hall (with $)

Postby iceicebaby » Tue Jan 31, 2012 2:56 pm

InGoodFaith wrote:
iceicebaby wrote:Oh okay, I gotcha. Good point. Would the same be true coming from Seton Hall, or does that school's reach extend beyond NJ?


Seton Hall is a regional school for North Jersey. It doesn't extend outside of Jersey, not even to NYC.


Yeah, that is pretty much what I thought. So the 40 or so graduates that get jobs at NLJ250 firms (as stated by the NLJ in their go-to list) are pretty much all in Jersey right? Not that it REALLY matters to me, but I would like to go to a place that has more flexibility than that.

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pugilistjd
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Re: Rutgers-Newark vs. Seton Hall (with $)

Postby pugilistjd » Tue Jan 31, 2012 2:58 pm

Correction: The few lawyers that are on TLS are recently-minted JD infants who, if they actually have gotten biglaw, won't end up working enough billables and will get canned because they are posting 50 times a day on TLS. That being said, I turned down Sheeton Hall with a half scholly, but mainly because, worst-case scenario, I would not want to be poor and in New Jersey after graduation. If you have no problem with the prospect of being poor in New Jersey, go to Seton Hall. You have absolutely no idea what level of success you will have either during or after law school, so you should prepare for the worst and seriously, there are way better places to be poor in.

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20130312
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Re: Rutgers-Newark vs. Seton Hall (with $)

Postby 20130312 » Tue Jan 31, 2012 3:04 pm

pugilistjd wrote: seriously, there are way better places to be poor in.


Like Tulane.




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