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Re: what is up with the "T14 or DON'T GO" sentiment??

Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 4:16 pm
by IAFG
Errzii wrote:My advice is to pick law schools as if you were choosing sexual partners.

T14 = attractive virgin
T1 = less attractive person, but would still bang given the right conditions. Not 100% sure about sex history, use a condom.
TTT = ugly STD infected [HI I'M THE WORD FILTER. THIS PERSON MIGHT BE A DICK.], stay away from at all costs, unless you're into that sort of thing.

HTH.

I don't usually play feminist police but this was pretty offensive (not to mention unfunny and unhelpful).

Re: what is up with the "T14 or DON'T GO" sentiment??

Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 4:22 pm
by Regina217
Transphobic and sexist. A disappointing post.

Re: what is up with the "T14 or DON'T GO" sentiment??

Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 4:24 pm
by justonemoregame
That a virgin would top one's list of potential sexual partners is psychotic.

Re: what is up with the "T14 or DON'T GO" sentiment??

Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 4:29 pm
by moneybagsphd
IAFG wrote:
Errzii wrote:My advice is to pick law schools as if you were choosing sexual partners.

T14 = attractive virgin
T1 = less attractive person, but would still bang given the right conditions. Not 100% sure about sex history, use a condom.
TTT = ugly STD infected [HI I'M THE WORD FILTER. THIS PERSON MIGHT BE A DICK.], stay away from at all costs, unless you're into that sort of thing.

HTH.

I don't usually play feminist police but this was pretty offensive (not to mention unfunny and unhelpful).

That part sounds accurate to me.

Re: what is up with the "T14 or DON'T GO" sentiment??

Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 4:31 pm
by TaipeiMort
I attend a T6 school. However, I have worked with great attorneys/met partners of firms that attended T4 schools. I would think that for the majority of law students, those that are really just looking for a strong return on investment and have no real idea/ are not emotionally invested in any particular type of legal work (90%), the risk/return odds are against you outside of the T14, unless you have a great scholarship or a job lined up.

To put it in perspective, I and four of my friends who are a little above median received more than 20 offers. Our buddies at a T1 school, which used to place 15-20% in big law have stated that their entire class only have nine people working big law jobs all together.

Another reality is that getting a degree from a T14 school is in reality a different degree. It allows you access to jobs that most T1, and roughly all T2,3,4 degrees will not get you. Aside from regionally dominant institutions within their region (eg. USC, UCLA, Wyoming, Boulder, Georgetown, Texas Tech), and large ideological network schools within their network (Notre Dame, BYU, SMU, Cal), your T1-4 degree may appear to practitioners like a University of Phoenix degree appears to the HR people at Goldman Sachs. Notice, I am not stating that the educational quality is worse, or the student body is less intelligent, it is just a market reality (ie. I got smoked on an assignment at a job this summer by a tier 4 student).

Re: what is up with the "T14 or DON'T GO" sentiment??

Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 4:32 pm
by AreJay711
justonemoregame wrote:That a virgin would top one's list of potential sexual partners is psychotic.


Yeah, it would be a turnoff for me; maybe not a deal breaker in every situation but it would have to be something special to overcome it.

Re: what is up with the "T14 or DON'T GO" sentiment??

Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 4:59 pm
by ahnhub
If you're extremely risk averse (and I suspect many law-school applicants are) I don't think you should go, even if you get into HYS. Even if you're a super-genius and get into Yale, if you're paranoid enough to think that only Yale students are safe and NYU and Michigan students are going to be in deep trouble, how comfortable are you entering a profession where people attending the #6 and #7 institutions in the country are screwed? I think any hopeful lawyer should believe they have it in them to hustle in the face of adversity, no matter what school they go to.

It also depends on how much you buy into the negativity surrounding the legal profession. The claim is that law is qualitatively different from other professions--it doesn't matter how smart or hard-working or charismatic you are, if you get unlucky at the wrong time you will be totally screwed, with no opportunity to get back in the game. Personally I believe law may be different due to the nature of the profession and oversupply, but at the end of the day the aforementioned qualities will be rewarded for the vast majority, just as they would be for aspiring engineers, journalists, marketing people, etc.

Anyways, as your risk-averseness and your belief in the instability of law rises, the list of schools you should be willing to attend gets smaller. I myself am rather risk-averse. If I didn't get into a T-20ish school I probably would not be going. But if I were more confident of my hustling abilities I'd be willing to go to more places.

Re: what is up with the "T14 or DON'T GO" sentiment??

Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 5:06 pm
by ganggreen
TaipeiMort wrote:I attend a T6 school. However, I have worked with great attorneys/met partners of firms that attended T4 schools. I would think that for the majority of law students, those that are really just looking for a strong return on investment and have no real idea/ are not emotionally invested in any particular type of legal work (90%), the risk/return odds are against you outside of the T14, unless you have a great scholarship or a job lined up.

To put it in perspective, I and four of my friends who are a little above median received more than 20 offers. Our buddies at a T1 school, which used to place 15-20% in big law have stated that their entire class only have nine people working big law jobs all together.

Another reality is that getting a degree from a T14 school is in reality a different degree. It allows you access to jobs that most T1, and roughly all T2,3,4 degrees will not get you. Aside from regionally dominant institutions within their region (eg. USC, UCLA, Wyoming, Boulder, Georgetown, Texas Tech), and large ideological network schools within their network (Notre Dame, BYU, SMU, Cal), your T1-4 degree may appear to practitioners like a University of Phoenix degree appears to the HR people at Goldman Sachs. Notice, I am not stating that the educational quality is worse, or the student body is less intelligent, it is just a market reality (ie. I got smoked on an assignment at a job this summer by a tier 4 student).


20 offers? That makes me feel a little better lol. Is it a fair statement that if you are in the top half of your class at a T14, you should be able to get a job that makes paying off debt from sticker manageable?

Re: what is up with the "T14 or DON'T GO" sentiment??

Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 5:30 pm
by johansantana21
ganggreen wrote:
TaipeiMort wrote:I attend a T6 school. However, I have worked with great attorneys/met partners of firms that attended T4 schools. I would think that for the majority of law students, those that are really just looking for a strong return on investment and have no real idea/ are not emotionally invested in any particular type of legal work (90%), the risk/return odds are against you outside of the T14, unless you have a great scholarship or a job lined up.

To put it in perspective, I and four of my friends who are a little above median received more than 20 offers. Our buddies at a T1 school, which used to place 15-20% in big law have stated that their entire class only have nine people working big law jobs all together.

Another reality is that getting a degree from a T14 school is in reality a different degree. It allows you access to jobs that most T1, and roughly all T2,3,4 degrees will not get you. Aside from regionally dominant institutions within their region (eg. USC, UCLA, Wyoming, Boulder, Georgetown, Texas Tech), and large ideological network schools within their network (Notre Dame, BYU, SMU, Cal), your T1-4 degree may appear to practitioners like a University of Phoenix degree appears to the HR people at Goldman Sachs. Notice, I am not stating that the educational quality is worse, or the student body is less intelligent, it is just a market reality (ie. I got smoked on an assignment at a job this summer by a tier 4 student).


20 offers? That makes me feel a little better lol. Is it a fair statement that if you are in the top half of your class at a T14, you should be able to get a job that makes paying off debt from sticker manageable?


1L here but that sounds rather optimistic.

Even if 50%+ of lower t14 get biglaw, you have to account for people who had IP, URM/Diversity status, really good work experience.

Even if 10-15% of the 50% hired are from these people who have sub median grades, then maybe it's the top 35% that get biglaw offers.

Re: what is up with the "T14 or DON'T GO" sentiment??

Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 5:53 pm
by AS33
Soo if you are URM, have 3 years of decent legal experience prior to law school, and attend say Uchicago, is it naïve to think you have a good shot at Biglaw even if you're not top 50% of your class?

Re: what is up with the "T14 or DON'T GO" sentiment??

Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 5:55 pm
by johansantana21
AS33 wrote:Soo if you are URM, have 3 years of decent legal experience prior to law school, and attend say Uchicago, is it naïve to think you have a good shot at Biglaw even if you're not top 50% of your class?


Not what I was saying at all. I was saying if you are a rather vanilla candidate (no URM/diversity, IP, great resume/work experience), then saying that staying just above median would give you a fairly good shot at biglaw.

Re: what is up with the "T14 or DON'T GO" sentiment??

Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 6:00 pm
by AS33
I know what you meant, I kind of just wanted to know your thoughts on what I said. (Even though it's off topic from OP, sorry)

Re: what is up with the "T14 or DON'T GO" sentiment??

Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 6:04 pm
by johansantana21
AS33 wrote:I know what you meant, I kind of just wanted to know your thoughts on what I said. (Even though it's off topic from OP, sorry)


I'm a 1L so my info is pretty worthless but being a URM from UChicago sounds awesome.

Re: what is up with the "T14 or DON'T GO" sentiment??

Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 8:00 pm
by Errzii
IAFG wrote:I don't usually play feminist police but this was pretty offensive (not to mention unfunny and unhelpful).


Regina217 wrote:Transphobic and sexist. A disappointing post.



Image

Re: what is up with the "T14 or DON'T GO" sentiment??

Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 8:11 pm
by 09042014
Errzii wrote:
IAFG wrote:I don't usually play feminist police but this was pretty offensive (not to mention unfunny and unhelpful).


Regina217 wrote:Transphobic and sexist. A disappointing post.



Image



Being sexist on TLS is fine if you are funny about it. You aren't brosphef.

Re: what is up with the "T14 or DON'T GO" sentiment??

Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 8:17 pm
by 09042014
johansantana21 wrote:
ganggreen wrote:
TaipeiMort wrote:I attend a T6 school. However, I have worked with great attorneys/met partners of firms that attended T4 schools. I would think that for the majority of law students, those that are really just looking for a strong return on investment and have no real idea/ are not emotionally invested in any particular type of legal work (90%), the risk/return odds are against you outside of the T14, unless you have a great scholarship or a job lined up.

To put it in perspective, I and four of my friends who are a little above median received more than 20 offers. Our buddies at a T1 school, which used to place 15-20% in big law have stated that their entire class only have nine people working big law jobs all together.

Another reality is that getting a degree from a T14 school is in reality a different degree. It allows you access to jobs that most T1, and roughly all T2,3,4 degrees will not get you. Aside from regionally dominant institutions within their region (eg. USC, UCLA, Wyoming, Boulder, Georgetown, Texas Tech), and large ideological network schools within their network (Notre Dame, BYU, SMU, Cal), your T1-4 degree may appear to practitioners like a University of Phoenix degree appears to the HR people at Goldman Sachs. Notice, I am not stating that the educational quality is worse, or the student body is less intelligent, it is just a market reality (ie. I got smoked on an assignment at a job this summer by a tier 4 student).


20 offers? That makes me feel a little better lol. Is it a fair statement that if you are in the top half of your class at a T14, you should be able to get a job that makes paying off debt from sticker manageable?


1L here but that sounds rather optimistic.

Even if 50%+ of lower t14 get biglaw, you have to account for people who had IP, URM/Diversity status, really good work experience.

Even if 10-15% of the 50% hired are from these people who have sub median grades, then maybe it's the top 35% that get biglaw offers.


It's more like 65-70% at most T14. But overall you are right. From what I can tell, it's fairly rare to strike out in the top third. You need something going for in the bottom third. The middle third is all about how you can sell yourself, how you interview, how you bid, how your resume is, etc etc.

T14 is risky. Anything below T18 is just fucking retarded without a huge scholarship. If you "just want to be a lawyer" you should :

1) admit that's a lie, you don't really know what lawyers do
2) go to the school that will give you a full ride, and then you work part time to support your ass for living expenses.

Shit law doesn't pay poor compared to average jobs. But it does suck when you have 100K+ in debt.

Re: what is up with the "T14 or DON'T GO" sentiment??

Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 8:19 pm
by IAFG
Desert Fox wrote:
Being sexist on TLS is fine if you are funny about it. You aren't brosphef.

True, you're allowed to be really offensive, but only if you're also really funny.

Re: what is up with the "T14 or DON'T GO" sentiment??

Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 8:20 pm
by lisjjen
AreJay711 wrote:It makes sense for 90% of people on here that do not actually know if they would like to work as an attorney. It isn't like T100 schools without a scholarship is bad for everyone, but those people who it makes sense for do not know who they are beforehand.


I agree with this. I see people who make tremendous careers for themselves going to schools like SMU and Lewis and Clark (even ITE). But they tend to be solidly grounded beforehand (both within and without their person i.e. they have the right mindset and the right contacts) and usually have work experience.

On the opposite end of the spectrum, you have 23 year olds who didn't know what else to do with their lives so they did more school. Undergrad in this country has kinda turned into an intellectual journey that we all get to go on together. It's OK if you don't know what you want to do by the end, it's the adventure that counts. That doesn't work as well in law school.

Re: what is up with the "T14 or DON'T GO" sentiment??

Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 8:21 pm
by lisjjen
Desert Fox wrote:
T14 is risky. Anything below T18 is just fucking retarded without a huge scholarship. If you "just want to be a lawyer" you should :

1) admit that's a lie, you don't really know what lawyers do
2) go to the school that will give you a full ride, and then you work part time to support your ass for living expenses.



+1

Re: what is up with the "T14 or DON'T GO" sentiment??

Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 8:26 pm
by johansantana21
Desert Fox wrote:
johansantana21 wrote:
ganggreen wrote:
TaipeiMort wrote:I attend a T6 school. However, I have worked with great attorneys/met partners of firms that attended T4 schools. I would think that for the majority of law students, those that are really just looking for a strong return on investment and have no real idea/ are not emotionally invested in any particular type of legal work (90%), the risk/return odds are against you outside of the T14, unless you have a great scholarship or a job lined up.

To put it in perspective, I and four of my friends who are a little above median received more than 20 offers. Our buddies at a T1 school, which used to place 15-20% in big law have stated that their entire class only have nine people working big law jobs all together.

Another reality is that getting a degree from a T14 school is in reality a different degree. It allows you access to jobs that most T1, and roughly all T2,3,4 degrees will not get you. Aside from regionally dominant institutions within their region (eg. USC, UCLA, Wyoming, Boulder, Georgetown, Texas Tech), and large ideological network schools within their network (Notre Dame, BYU, SMU, Cal), your T1-4 degree may appear to practitioners like a University of Phoenix degree appears to the HR people at Goldman Sachs. Notice, I am not stating that the educational quality is worse, or the student body is less intelligent, it is just a market reality (ie. I got smoked on an assignment at a job this summer by a tier 4 student).


20 offers? That makes me feel a little better lol. Is it a fair statement that if you are in the top half of your class at a T14, you should be able to get a job that makes paying off debt from sticker manageable?


1L here but that sounds rather optimistic.

Even if 50%+ of lower t14 get biglaw, you have to account for people who had IP, URM/Diversity status, really good work experience.

Even if 10-15% of the 50% hired are from these people who have sub median grades, then maybe it's the top 35% that get biglaw offers.


It's more like 65-70% at most T14. But overall you are right. From what I can tell, it's fairly rare to strike out in the top third. You need something going for in the bottom third. The middle third is all about how you can sell yourself, how you interview, how you bid, how your resume is, etc etc.

T14 is risky. Anything below T18 is just fucking retarded without a huge scholarship. If you "just want to be a lawyer" you should :

1) admit that's a lie, you don't really know what lawyers do
2) go to the school that will give you a full ride, and then you work part time to support your ass for living expenses.

Shit law doesn't pay poor compared to average jobs. But it does suck when you have 100K+ in debt.


65%-75% even at a school like DCGN?

Re: what is up with the "T14 or DON'T GO" sentiment??

Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 8:30 pm
by Errzii
Desert Fox wrote:Being sexist on TLS is fine if you are funny about it. You aren't brosphef.


Sorry to disappoint you "brosphef" but I wasn't trying to be funny. I know it may come as a shock but not everyone cares whether or not strangers on the internet are entertained by their posts.

Re: what is up with the "T14 or DON'T GO" sentiment??

Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 8:32 pm
by 09042014
johansantana21 wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
johansantana21 wrote:
ganggreen wrote:
20 offers? That makes me feel a little better lol. Is it a fair statement that if you are in the top half of your class at a T14, you should be able to get a job that makes paying off debt from sticker manageable?


1L here but that sounds rather optimistic.

Even if 50%+ of lower t14 get biglaw, you have to account for people who had IP, URM/Diversity status, really good work experience.

Even if 10-15% of the 50% hired are from these people who have sub median grades, then maybe it's the top 35% that get biglaw offers.


It's more like 65-70% at most T14. But overall you are right. From what I can tell, it's fairly rare to strike out in the top third. You need something going for in the bottom third. The middle third is all about how you can sell yourself, how you interview, how you bid, how your resume is, etc etc.

T14 is risky. Anything below T18 is just fucking retarded without a huge scholarship. If you "just want to be a lawyer" you should :

1) admit that's a lie, you don't really know what lawyers do
2) go to the school that will give you a full ride, and then you work part time to support your ass for living expenses.

Shit law doesn't pay poor compared to average jobs. But it does suck when you have 100K+ in debt.


65%-75% even at a school like DCGN?


More like 65% at the lower T13. And 75%+ at CCN. But I'm counting every firm that pays six figs and subtracting out people who don't do OCI because they are diehard PI (which is a really tiny group).

Re: what is up with the "T14 or DON'T GO" sentiment??

Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 8:33 pm
by 09042014
Errzii wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:Being sexist on TLS is fine if you are funny about it. You aren't brosphef.


Sorry to disappoint you "brosphef" but I wasn't trying to be funny. I know it may come as a shock but not everyone cares whether or not strangers on the internet are entertained by their posts.


Yea posting a meme of a famous comedian isn't trying to be funny. Yea sorry I was so wrong, I must be retarded.

Re: what is up with the "T14 or DON'T GO" sentiment??

Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 8:34 pm
by ganggreen
Desert Fox wrote:
johansantana21 wrote:
ganggreen wrote:
TaipeiMort wrote:I attend a T6 school. However, I have worked with great attorneys/met partners of firms that attended T4 schools. I would think that for the majority of law students, those that are really just looking for a strong return on investment and have no real idea/ are not emotionally invested in any particular type of legal work (90%), the risk/return odds are against you outside of the T14, unless you have a great scholarship or a job lined up.

To put it in perspective, I and four of my friends who are a little above median received more than 20 offers. Our buddies at a T1 school, which used to place 15-20% in big law have stated that their entire class only have nine people working big law jobs all together.

Another reality is that getting a degree from a T14 school is in reality a different degree. It allows you access to jobs that most T1, and roughly all T2,3,4 degrees will not get you. Aside from regionally dominant institutions within their region (eg. USC, UCLA, Wyoming, Boulder, Georgetown, Texas Tech), and large ideological network schools within their network (Notre Dame, BYU, SMU, Cal), your T1-4 degree may appear to practitioners like a University of Phoenix degree appears to the HR people at Goldman Sachs. Notice, I am not stating that the educational quality is worse, or the student body is less intelligent, it is just a market reality (ie. I got smoked on an assignment at a job this summer by a tier 4 student).


20 offers? That makes me feel a little better lol. Is it a fair statement that if you are in the top half of your class at a T14, you should be able to get a job that makes paying off debt from sticker manageable?


1L here but that sounds rather optimistic.

Even if 50%+ of lower t14 get biglaw, you have to account for people who had IP, URM/Diversity status, really good work experience.

Even if 10-15% of the 50% hired are from these people who have sub median grades, then maybe it's the top 35% that get biglaw offers.


It's more like 65-70% at most T14. But overall you are right. From what I can tell, it's fairly rare to strike out in the top third. You need something going for in the bottom third. The middle third is all about how you can sell yourself, how you interview, how you bid, how your resume is, etc etc.

T14 is risky. Anything below T18 is just fucking retarded without a huge scholarship. If you "just want to be a lawyer" you should :

1) admit that's a lie, you don't really know what lawyers do
2) go to the school that will give you a full ride, and then you work part time to support your ass for living expenses.

Shit law doesn't pay poor compared to average jobs. But it does suck when you have 100K+ in debt.


So if I'm going the risky route (T14), I better finish in the top third. Alright

Re: what is up with the "T14 or DON'T GO" sentiment??

Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 8:36 pm
by slider
Regina217 wrote:Transphobic and sexist. A disappointing post.


Agreed. It was a disgusting post. If it was racist, the mods would have bounced on it. Kind of sad.