what is up with the "T14 or DON'T GO" sentiment?? Forum

[dixiecupdrinking]

Id describe those schools at top 25. I can't imagine anybody from those schools being unemployed. I'm thinking the majority of the unemployed college grads attended CC, or like SUNY purchase.

This is an egregious failure of imagination.

[09042014]

I'm sure making 45k in 200k debt is amazing bro, gtfo.

I think Laxbrah means Undergrad.

LOL why is he saying "top 50" as if those are crappy or even average schools? Top 50 includes UNC, Michigan, Tufts, Georgetown, Vanderbilt, and UT. I'm sure the average grad at those schools are pulling jobs that pay 45-70K a year. But for the average college grad their lucky to be employed in anything full time other than retail. People need a reality check. It's awful out there for recent college grads that didn't go to a top school.

Id describe those schools at top 25. I can't imagine anybody from those schools being unemployed. I'm thinking the majority of the unemployed college grads attended CC, or like SUNY purchase.

I think you vastly overestimate how well most graduates do. Undergrad isn't like law school. Plenty of unemployed even at ivy league. Harvard's reported median starting salary is only 54K. Count in all the people too ashamed to put 0 and it'll fall.

[laxbrah420]

Im just basing it on my own experiences. I really haven't talked to anybody who's had to go back to a restaurant or something like that. Some did a temp-->full time thing but that's 6 months underemployed max. This is why I conclude that people on this site, and their friends, simply suck at job hunting

[Mal Reynolds]

Im just basing it on my own experiences. I really haven't talked to anybody who's had to go back to a restaurant or something like that. Some did a temp-->full time thing but that's 6 months underemployed max. This is why I conclude that people on this site, and their friends, simply suck at job hunting

Cool story.

[laxbrah420]

my ultimate point is that I think it's outrageous to say that opportunity costs for recent grads are zero "because of the economy". At the very least, one could hit up the canadian oil sands for a few months and bring in some major loot

[09042014]

Im just basing it on my own experiences. I really haven't talked to anybody who's had to go back to a restaurant or something like that. Some did a temp-->full time thing but that's 6 months underemployed max. This is why I conclude that people on this site, and their friends, simply suck at job hunting

A lot of people do suck at job hunting. Temp to perm is an example. Plenty of people with no marketable skills don't try it. And instead take perm shitty jobs.

[mrloblaw]

I just take issue with this sentiment because it leads to the conclusion that no one should go to law school --Either you have good enough grades/are smart enough to succeed w/o the degree or do not have the ability to get into a good school.

Perhaps the best conclusion is that only splitters (<3.2, >170) should be going

What's wrong with that conclusion?

[BruceWayne]

Im just basing it on my own experiences. I really haven't talked to anybody who's had to go back to a restaurant or something like that. Some did a temp-->full time thing but that's 6 months underemployed max. This is why I conclude that people on this site, and their friends, simply suck at job hunting

A lot of people do suck at job hunting. Temp to perm is an example. Plenty of people with no marketable skills don't try it. And instead take perm shitty jobs.

I don't know if a lot of people suck at job hunting, but a lot of them sure suck at job finding.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/19/busin ... grads.html
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... 51410.html
http://articles.cnn.com/2011-09-28/us/y ... PM:IREPORT
http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/Articles/ ... -Grad.aspx

[laxbrah420]

Those are identical concepts. And those articles are fake

[STLMizzou]

Im just basing it on my own experiences. I really haven't talked to anybody who's had to go back to a restaurant or something like that. Some did a temp-->full time thing but that's 6 months underemployed max. This is why I conclude that people on this site, and their friends, simply suck at job hunting

A lot of people do suck at job hunting. Temp to perm is an example. Plenty of people with no marketable skills don't try it. And instead take perm shitty jobs.

I don't know if a lot of people suck at job hunting, but a lot of them sure suck at job finding.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/19/busin ... grads.html
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... 51410.html
http://articles.cnn.com/2011-09-28/us/y ... PM:IREPORT
http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/Articles/ ... -Grad.aspx

Tl;dr version: College graduates with liberal arts degrees and general business degrees have hard time finding employers looking for people with no real applicable skills. Especially hard-up are students who refuse to spend more than a minute of looking on monster.com

One student is quoted as saying “I got my philosophy degree, now where are all those jerbs I was promised? Only 40K managing a Walgreens? No thank you, I’ll just camp out in New York and bitch.”
Another said: “Networking? What is that? Was it in my tuition fee like my gym membership at the private university I chose to go to instead of my state school?”

[laxbrah420]

I guess I'll add that I didn't talk to any liberal arts majors (minus economics).
But even the (misguided) kids who majored in psychology have been employable in 'analyst' positions.

[dixiecupdrinking]

Mmmk. Everyone's lazy or stupid except for you. The new American dream.

[STLMizzou]

Mmmk. Everyone's lazy or stupid except for you. The new American dream.

Hasn't that always been the American dream?

[Nelson]

Tl;dr version: College graduates with liberal arts degrees and general business degrees have hard time finding employers looking for people with no real applicable skills. Especially hard-up are students who refuse to spend more than a minute of looking on monster.com

One student is quoted as saying “I got my philosophy degree, now where are all those jerbs I was promised? Only 40K managing a Walgreens? No thank you, I’ll just camp out in New York and bitch.”
Another said: “Networking? What is that? Was it in my tuition fee like my gym membership at the private university I chose to go to instead of my state school?”

How could anyone have missed that the solution to unemployment among recent college grads is "more networking" and the drug store management sector.

[BruceWayne]

Mmmk. Everyone's lazy or stupid except for you. The new American dream.

Hasn't that always been the American dream?

LMAO--exactly. Or rather the Republican American dream.

[TatteredDignity]

Even though relatively few will get biglaw, does starting salary in any field except medicine even come close to biglaw? From what I understood, not even engineers break six figures starting out. What do investment bankers make with bonus?

[BruceWayne]

Even though relatively few will get biglaw, does starting salary in any field except medicine even come close to biglaw? From what I understood, not even engineers break six figures starting out. What do investment bankers make with bonus?

Ding Ding,looks like we've got someone who has a grasp on reality. And Ibanking is so out of reach for most people it's not even funny. If you didn't choose to go to an elite school when you were 17 (and then do well at said elite school at that) you're out of luck. Not to mention the QOL is even worse than law firm work and you really ARE restricted to working in NYC, as opposed to just more likely to work there if you are going for biglaw.

[vanwinkle]

Even though relatively few will get biglaw, does starting salary in any field except medicine even come close to biglaw? From what I understood, not even engineers break six figures starting out. What do investment bankers make with bonus?

I'm not sure I understand. Is your point "the risk may be high but the potential payout is bigger"? That's what it sounds like, and it means you're buying a $200,000 lottery ticket.

[laxbrah420]

Even though relatively few will get biglaw, does starting salary in any field except medicine even come close to biglaw? From what I understood, not even engineers break six figures starting out. What do investment bankers make with bonus?

I'm not sure I understand. Is your point "the risk may be high but the potential payout is bigger"? That's what it sounds like, and it means you're buying a $200,000 lottery ticket.

Or putting $200k into an IPO

[STLMizzou]

I know a select few accounting majors who started at 6 figures before bonus (but 2 of the three had very connected families, and the third was the caddie of a very connected person who set him up with the job post-grad) But that is an advance degree (took 5 years at Mizzou, but I know other schools it can take 6) and passing the CPA is a bitch.

I think what LaxBrah is saying, is that law school is no different from undergraduate in terms of job prospects. The people who go to t-14 schools (or even any t1 school IMO) could probably find a job that pays 40k+ even in this economy (they have the GPA and/or the testing ability to do well). Any of those people who say they are going to law school because they couldn’t find a job, probably don’t have the people skills/ networking skills to get a job even with a law degree (because statistically, 50% of them will be at or below the median).

[laxbrah420]

I was actually just respond to this trash:

With opportunity costs close to zero for the type of people we're talking about (kid who gets big $$$ at T30 or sticker at T10-14 = likely to be unemployed if he weren't in LS)

Someone who gets sticker t14 is a ~3.6/170 right? That's such bullshit to say that "type" of person is "likely to be unemployed" if not LS.

[20130312]

Majoring in accounting can take six years? Not at the business school I went to...

Unless you're talking about getting a master's. Then yes, it's like any other master's degree.

[20130312]

I was actually just respond to this trash:

With opportunity costs close to zero for the type of people we're talking about (kid who gets big $$$ at T30 or sticker at T10-14 = likely to be unemployed if he weren't in LS)

Someone who gets sticker t14 is a ~3.6/170 right? That's such bullshit to say that "type" of person is "likely to be unemployed" if not LS.

Right, because GPA and LSAT scores are great predictors of post-UG employment.

[STLMizzou]

I would wager GPA is? Anecdotal, but I don’t know a single person with a 3.0+ from any degree (including opera performance, English, political science, graphic design) that does not have a professional job making 40k+, except for the people narrowing their search to nitch jobs/graduate schools (ta’s getting masters, English grads trying to get publishing jobs, HRM majors trying to find work in Vegas, etc.)

[laxbrah420]

How dense are you? This guy says "the type of person" to get into X type of school.
You think that the "type of person" who can "only" get into T14 w/ no money is "unlikely" to have employment after UG graduation? The fact of the mater is that an overwhelming majority of ug-grads do find meaningful employment. Perhaps the unemployment rate of recent grads is above the 9% for the nation as a whole, but to suggest "zero opportunity costs" is patently absurd.