Florida Legal Market

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Indifferent
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Re: Florida Legal Market

Postby Indifferent » Tue Mar 06, 2012 1:56 am

reformed calvinist wrote:It should be more like:
T14 + Vandy------> Emory ----------------->UF or FSU----->Miami-------------->Other FL schools.

More accurate. None of these things mean anything, though, without connections to Florida.

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reformed calvinist
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Re: Florida Legal Market

Postby reformed calvinist » Tue Mar 06, 2012 2:00 am

Indifferent wrote:
reformed calvinist wrote:It should be more like:
T14 + Vandy------> Emory ----------------->UF or FSU----->Miami-------------->Other FL schools.

More accurate. None of these things mean anything, though, without connections to Florida.


Ah I forgot about Vandy. The thing with Emory though is that unless they give you $$$ I'm not convinced it's better overall for Florida.

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Indifferent
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Re: Florida Legal Market

Postby Indifferent » Tue Mar 06, 2012 3:04 am

reformed calvinist wrote:The thing with Emory though is that unless they give you $$$ I'm not convinced it's better overall for Florida.

I know what you're trying to say, but what you said is illogical and wrong.

In any event, I am not 100% sure about that either, but I have a feeling that top 25% at Emory has an alright shot at biglaw in Florida, whereas UF/FSU/UM top 25% students have 0 shot.

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clarion
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Re: Florida Legal Market

Postby clarion » Tue Mar 06, 2012 3:08 am

Indifferent wrote:
reformed calvinist wrote:The thing with Emory though is that unless they give you $$$ I'm not convinced it's better overall for Florida.

I know what you're trying to say, but what you said is illogical and wrong.

In any event, I am not 100% sure about that either, but I have a feeling that top 25% at Emory has an alright shot at biglaw in Florida, whereas UF/FSU/UM top 25% students have 0 shot.


Do you truly mean to suggest that biglaw firms in FL select exclusively from T14, Vanderbilt and Emory?

Geaux12
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Re: Florida Legal Market

Postby Geaux12 » Tue Mar 06, 2012 3:12 am

Indifferent wrote:
reformed calvinist wrote:The thing with Emory though is that unless they give you $$$ I'm not convinced it's better overall for Florida.

I know what you're trying to say, but what you said is illogical and wrong.

In any event, I am not 100% sure about that either, but I have a feeling that top 25% at Emory has an alright shot at biglaw in Florida, whereas UF/FSU/UM top 25% students have 0 shot.


This is absolutely ridiculous.

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doinmybest
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Re: Florida Legal Market

Postby doinmybest » Tue Mar 06, 2012 11:28 am

Anyone know how the IP market is in FL? Not a lot of info about this, but I have a feeling it ain't so great.

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Indifferent
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Re: Florida Legal Market

Postby Indifferent » Tue Mar 06, 2012 1:24 pm

clarion wrote:
Indifferent wrote:
reformed calvinist wrote:The thing with Emory though is that unless they give you $$$ I'm not convinced it's better overall for Florida.

I know what you're trying to say, but what you said is illogical and wrong.

In any event, I am not 100% sure about that either, but I have a feeling that top 25% at Emory has an alright shot at biglaw in Florida, whereas UF/FSU/UM top 25% students have 0 shot.


Do you truly mean to suggest that biglaw firms in FL select exclusively from T14, Vanderbilt and Emory?

My post does not suggest that. Top 10% students at those schools have a great shot at biglaw.

Geaux12 wrote:This is absolutely ridiculous.

No, it's actually 100% accurate. Top 25% students at those schools would be lucky to get preselected during EIW, less get any callbacks/offers. Any those (if any) outside the top 15% that got offers definitely did not get them by virtue of grades.

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Indifferent
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Re: Florida Legal Market

Postby Indifferent » Tue Mar 06, 2012 1:26 pm

doinmybest wrote:Anyone know how the IP market is in FL? Not a lot of info about this, but I have a feeling it ain't so great.

Virtually nonexistent. The few people I know doing IP aren't staying in Florida.

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doinmybest
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Re: Florida Legal Market

Postby doinmybest » Tue Mar 06, 2012 1:54 pm

Indifferent wrote:
doinmybest wrote:Anyone know how the IP market is in FL? Not a lot of info about this, but I have a feeling it ain't so great.

Virtually nonexistent. The few people I know doing IP aren't staying in Florida.


That's what I suspected. Most of the firms I interviewed with down there did not have an IP practice or if they did, only 1 or 2 attorneys in the firm worked in IP. I'm not looking for IP. I have a close 1L friend who is looking to do IP, Products or Toxic Torts in the Tampa area.

I am one of the lucky few to get a SA position in FL. I can generally confirm what Indifferent has posted. But, if you come from a T14 don't expect it to be rainbows and unicorns. I still had a pretty hard time getting an SA position and firms cared a lot about my ties and grades, so it's not like you can rock median or below and clean up in FL.
Last edited by doinmybest on Wed Mar 07, 2012 2:08 am, edited 1 time in total.

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reformed calvinist
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Re: Florida Legal Market

Postby reformed calvinist » Tue Mar 06, 2012 9:28 pm

Indifferent wrote:
clarion wrote:
Indifferent wrote:
reformed calvinist wrote:The thing with Emory though is that unless they give you $$$ I'm not convinced it's better overall for Florida.

I know what you're trying to say, but what you said is illogical and wrong.

In any event, I am not 100% sure about that either, but I have a feeling that top 25% at Emory has an alright shot at biglaw in Florida, whereas UF/FSU/UM top 25% students have 0 shot.


Do you truly mean to suggest that biglaw firms in FL select exclusively from T14, Vanderbilt and Emory?

My post does not suggest that. Top 10% students at those schools have a great shot at biglaw.

Geaux12 wrote:This is absolutely ridiculous.

No, it's actually 100% accurate. Top 25% students at those schools would be lucky to get preselected during EIW, less get any callbacks/offers. Any those (if any) outside the top 15% that got offers definitely did not get them by virtue of grades.


Given the unpredictability of the curve, I'd rather take in-state at Florida than sticker at Emory. Any time. And given the fact that you have a 90% chance of not being in the top 10%, I'd be more comfortable with that one. Emory tuition (before expenses) is almost 3x Florida's. The price difference definitely tips the risk analysis scale.

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Re: Florida Legal Market

Postby duckmoney » Tue Mar 06, 2012 9:32 pm

I wouldn't take Emory over UF / FSU / UM unless the total cost of attendance, tuition + living, was cheaper. Florida firms might dig deeper into the Emory class, but not by much.

T14 + ties is the only way to get Florida biglaw if you're not at the top of the class, and even then it's far from guaranteed.

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Indifferent
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Re: Florida Legal Market

Postby Indifferent » Tue Mar 06, 2012 10:07 pm

duckmoney wrote:Florida firms might dig deeper into the Emory class, but not by much.

This is the only idea I was suggesting. I was not advocating choosing Emory over UF/FSU/UM, as some of you appear to have interpreted.

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clarion
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Re: Florida Legal Market

Postby clarion » Thu Mar 22, 2012 3:31 am

Hey it's me again with another innocent question. Thought about starting my own thread, but figured there's really no point. Anyways, finance and number-crunching is NOT my strong suit (did my undergrad in music lol) so I just wanted some input. If I were to decide to return to FL after law school at a T14, would having ~145k dollars of debt be like... too much? Like I'm REALLY wanting to go to GULC after the scholarship they offered me, but even with it, that number scares the crap out of me. Especially since I'm notoriously bad with money :lol:

Keep in mind that I MAY want to work big law in NY after I graduate (which only further complicates the issue) and as such, I'm not really asking you to make a decision for me. I'm just trying to get factual information from people more knowledgeable than myself about just how much debt is too much debt if returning to a rather "intimate" legal market like that in south Florida.

barneytrouble
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Re: Florida Legal Market

Postby barneytrouble » Thu Mar 22, 2012 6:54 am

clarion wrote:Hey it's me again with another innocent question. Thought about starting my own thread, but figured there's really no point. Anyways, finance and number-crunching is NOT my strong suit (did my undergrad in music lol) so I just wanted some input. If I were to decide to return to FL after law school at a T14, would having ~145k dollars of debt be like... too much? Like I'm REALLY wanting to go to GULC after the scholarship they offered me, but even with it, that number scares the crap out of me. Especially since I'm notoriously bad with money :lol:

Keep in mind that I MAY want to work big law in NY after I graduate (which only further complicates the issue) and as such, I'm not really asking you to make a decision for me. I'm just trying to get factual information from people more knowledgeable than myself about just how much debt is too much debt if returning to a rather "intimate" legal market like that in south Florida.


No... not too much at all. Keep in mind that even though 1st years make less here, the cost of living is also a fraction of NYC. IIRC, your take home at 135,000 in Miami ends up being 85k or roundabouts. And while Miami isnt cheap by any means, 85k in Miami goes much further than 96k in NYC.

So lets say you have to pay off 15k a year or whatever, that leaves us comparing 70k in Miami vs 81k in NYC. and 70k post tax in Miami is way more than enough.

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mrtoren
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Re: Florida Legal Market

Postby mrtoren » Thu Mar 22, 2012 9:46 am

Indifferent wrote:
duckmoney wrote:Florida firms might dig deeper into the Emory class, but not by much.

This is the only idea I was suggesting. I was not advocating choosing Emory over UF/FSU/UM, as some of you appear to have interpreted.

Don't blame others for the ambiguity of your words.

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Indifferent
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Re: Florida Legal Market

Postby Indifferent » Thu Mar 22, 2012 9:54 am

mrtoren wrote:
Indifferent wrote:
duckmoney wrote:Florida firms might dig deeper into the Emory class, but not by much.

This is the only idea I was suggesting. I was not advocating choosing Emory over UF/FSU/UM, as some of you appear to have interpreted.

Don't blame others for the ambiguity of your words.

I fail to see how stating a fact (i.e. students in the top 25% at Emory fare better with large firms than students in the top 25% at UF/FSU/UM) is ambiguous whatsoever, less that it suggests that I advocate choosing one school over the other based on a marginally better chance at landing a job with a big firm.

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Indifferent
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Re: Florida Legal Market

Postby Indifferent » Thu Mar 22, 2012 9:59 am

clarion wrote:Hey it's me again with another innocent question. Thought about starting my own thread, but figured there's really no point. Anyways, finance and number-crunching is NOT my strong suit (did my undergrad in music lol) so I just wanted some input. If I were to decide to return to FL after law school at a T14, would having ~145k dollars of debt be like... too much? Like I'm REALLY wanting to go to GULC after the scholarship they offered me, but even with it, that number scares the crap out of me. Especially since I'm notoriously bad with money :lol:

Keep in mind that I MAY want to work big law in NY after I graduate (which only further complicates the issue) and as such, I'm not really asking you to make a decision for me. I'm just trying to get factual information from people more knowledgeable than myself about just how much debt is too much debt if returning to a rather "intimate" legal market like that in south Florida.

According to the repayment calculator offered by http://www.finaid.org, on a ten-year repayment plan you would need to make payments of 1668 dollars a month to service your debt. I think most first year associates in Miami average from about 1800-2000 dollars a week gross, so that's about a week's salary every month that you'd be devoting to loan repayment. Of course, you could extend your repayment period, which would lower your monthly payments.

RodneyBoonfield
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Re: Florida Legal Market

Postby RodneyBoonfield » Thu Mar 22, 2012 10:44 am

reformed calvinist wrote:T14 + ties is the only way to get Florida biglaw if you're not at the top of the class, and even then it's far from guaranteed.


This is a little strong. I think the spirit of the statement is right, but I think if you are top 1/5 with ties at UF, you still have a decent chance., especially with FL firms with a lot of UF alum. Obviously, the stronger the ties/connection, the more the scale slides. On the other hand, I've seen smaller firms with very young lawyers from schools like Mercer/Stetson become EXTREMELY selective, and also wishy washy as to whether or not they are going to hire. It depends on a lot of things, and I think saying that there is an entrenched mathematical formula is incorrect, and could deter a lot of hopefuls from applying to such firms.

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Indifferent
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Re: Florida Legal Market

Postby Indifferent » Thu Mar 22, 2012 10:49 am

RodneyBoonfield wrote:
reformed calvinist wrote:T14 + ties is the only way to get Florida biglaw if you're not at the top of the class, and even then it's far from guaranteed.


This is a little strong. I think the spirit of the statement is right, but I think if you are top 1/5 with ties at UF, you still have a decent chance., especially with FL firms with a lot of UF alum. Obviously, the stronger the ties/connection, the more the scale slides. On the other hand, I've seen smaller firms with very young lawyers from schools like Mercer/Stetson become EXTREMELY selective, and also wishy washy as to whether or not they are going to hire. It depends on a lot of things, and I think saying that there is an entrenched mathematical formula is incorrect, and could deter a lot of hopefuls from applying to such firms.

This is definitely credited, especially when it comes to non-NALP Florida firms.

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Easy-E
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Re: Florida Legal Market

Postby Easy-E » Thu Mar 22, 2012 3:49 pm

Tiago Splitter wrote:What is wrong with this picture?

Ave Maria School of Law
Barry University Dwayne O. Andreas School of Law
Florida A&M University College of Law
Florida Coastal School of Law
University of Florida, Fredric G. Levin College of Law
Florida International University College of Law
The Florida State University College of Law
University of Miami School of Law University of Miami School of Law
Nova Southeastern University—Shepard Broad Law Center
St. Thomas University School of Law
Stetson University College of Law

Don't worry though, Cooley is building a campus down in Florida too.



Whats wrong with that picture? Half of those schools have the words "School of Law" after their names.

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clarion
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Re: Florida Legal Market

Postby clarion » Thu Mar 22, 2012 4:17 pm

Alright thanks for the help those of you who responded. I'm inches away from finalizing my decision. I just need a couple nudges to help me over the hump :P

SunshineMagic
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Re: Florida Legal Market

Postby SunshineMagic » Thu Mar 22, 2012 8:24 pm

I think its dumb to mention that shanny UM and not mention stetson just because Miami has more NLJ firms does not mean Orlando and Tampa don't have law jobs.....

duckmoney
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Re: Florida Legal Market

Postby duckmoney » Thu Mar 22, 2012 8:34 pm

SunshineMagic wrote:I think its dumb to mention that shanny UM and not mention stetson just because Miami has more NLJ firms does not mean Orlando and Tampa don't have law jobs.....


No but they have a lot fewer than Miami, and they don't pay as well. Also, many small firms have stopped entry level hiring entirely since the economy crashed, since they don't have the resources to support training new attorneys. NLJ250 firms actually do quite a bit of new legal hiring, even if there are lots of small law firms out there.

SunshineMagic
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Re: Florida Legal Market

Postby SunshineMagic » Thu Mar 22, 2012 8:50 pm

duckmoney wrote:
SunshineMagic wrote:I think its dumb to mention that shanny UM and not mention stetson just because Miami has more NLJ firms does not mean Orlando and Tampa don't have law jobs.....


No but they have a lot fewer than Miami, and they don't pay as well. Also, many small firms have stopped entry level hiring entirely since the economy crashed, since they don't have the resources to support training new attorneys. NLJ250 firms actually do quite a bit of new legal hiring, even if there are lots of small law firms out there.


That's not the case if you look on martindale at the shit ton of what most would call mid sized firms *gasp* they hire 2010-2011 grads!!!

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941law
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Re: Florida Legal Market

Postby 941law » Thu Mar 22, 2012 10:16 pm

out of state schools alumni do decent here because Florida already has a good amount of transplants.




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