Florida Legal Market

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NYC Law
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Re: Florida Legal Market

Postby NYC Law » Thu Mar 01, 2012 1:40 pm

caputlupinum wrote:
NYC Law wrote:
Geaux12 wrote:That article always makes me laugh. Goes to show that most "rankings" these magazines put out based on questionable metrics are bullshit. I think if you spent time in DTSP or St. Pete Beach you'd have a very different view of the city.


I've spent the majority of my life in the area, it's objectively shit.


See I have been there (tampa and clearwater not st pete) many times to visit family and I really like it. While I loved NYC for the first year the last year+ I lived there I hated the place sure the clubs where fun and there is stuff to do but the COL is redic and you are trapped on an ugly concrete island.... I think its all relative...


It's a great place to visit. But spend your entire life in an area with shit education, shit people, mediocre entertainment/food/culture, relatively high crime, very high unemployment, massive foreclosures, retarded political views, right next to a giant forest that apparently houses the entire US supply of meth and pedophiles, while being America's laughing stock, and don't forget the year round 80+ degree weather with very high humidity, so you'll get to sweat EVERY WHERE YOU GO. You'd probably get tired of it after a while.

Don't get me wrong, it really is a great place to visit (hence the booming tourism industry in FL), but I'd never like to live there again if I can help it, at least before I'm 40.

rad lulz
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Re: Florida Legal Market

Postby rad lulz » Thu Mar 01, 2012 1:45 pm

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Last edited by rad lulz on Sun Apr 21, 2013 5:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Geaux12
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Re: Florida Legal Market

Postby Geaux12 » Thu Mar 01, 2012 1:51 pm

NYC Law wrote:
Geaux12 wrote:That article always makes me laugh. Goes to show that most "rankings" these magazines put out based on questionable metrics are bullshit. I think if you spent time in DTSP or St. Pete Beach you'd have a very different view of the city.


I've spent the majority of my life in the area, it's objectively shit.


if you don't mind me asking, what area did you grow up in? I loved living in Old NE, but wouldn't live in Pinellas Park for all the money in the world.

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Re: Florida Legal Market

Postby NYC Law » Thu Mar 01, 2012 1:52 pm

caputlupinum wrote:
NYC Law wrote:
Geaux12 wrote:That article always makes me laugh. Goes to show that most "rankings" these magazines put out based on questionable metrics are bullshit. I think if you spent time in DTSP or St. Pete Beach you'd have a very different view of the city.


I've spent the majority of my life in the area, it's objectively shit.


See I have been there (tampa and clearwater not st pete) many times to visit family and I really like it. While I loved NYC for the first year the last year+ I lived there I hated the place sure the clubs where fun and there is stuff to do but the COL is redic and you are trapped on an ugly concrete island.... I think its all relative...


Also, NYC isn't that expensive if you're doing it right. It's not FL cheap, but it's easily manageable. I'm living better on 25k/year in student loans here than I ever did in FL.

Geaux12
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Re: Florida Legal Market

Postby Geaux12 » Thu Mar 01, 2012 2:00 pm

If you haven't visited the downtown recently, I think you'll be pleasantly surprised. Nightlife is really picking up, and the economic outlook for that entire area is trending updward. If they could only figure out what to do with the Rays...

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Re: Florida Legal Market

Postby caputlupinum » Thu Mar 01, 2012 2:04 pm

Geaux12 wrote:If you haven't visited the downtown recently, I think you'll be pleasantly surprised. Nightlife is really picking up, and the economic outlook for that entire area is trending updward. If they could only figure out what to do with the Rays...


I have seen this promoted online too I think after how ever long this recession ends (6mo-10yrs) the entire Southeast of the US will really really boom

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Re: Florida Legal Market

Postby rad lulz » Thu Mar 01, 2012 2:25 pm

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Last edited by rad lulz on Sun Apr 21, 2013 5:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Florida Legal Market

Postby NYC Law » Thu Mar 01, 2012 2:31 pm

rad lulz wrote:
Geaux12 wrote:If you haven't visited the downtown recently, I think you'll be pleasantly surprised. Nightlife is really picking up, and the economic outlook for that entire area is trending updward. If they could only figure out what to do with the Rays...

Economic growth prompted the characterless void and lack of sensible urban planning that characterizes Pinellas Cty.


Isn't that what happened to Miami years ago? I've only been once, but I heard it's just a giant urban void that never really took off.

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Re: Florida Legal Market

Postby UMiamiCane » Thu Mar 01, 2012 3:06 pm

I spoke with a graduate of UF who is employed as an assistant state attorney now. Granted, I wasn't talking to him about private firms, but he did say that employers here love UF grads. He also said there was a period of time where turnover at the SAO was slow because people weren't leaving for those private practice jobs as regularly as they once were. But that turnover was picking up again and there are almost always openings at his office. This also indicates to me that those firms people were leaving the SAO for are also hiring at a more steady rate again.
I don't want private practice, so just hearing that there were openings at various SAOs was good news for me.

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Re: Florida Legal Market

Postby clarion » Fri Mar 02, 2012 12:01 am

Hey guys, rather than starting my own personalized thread, I figured I might as well tag onto this one. I'm currently trying to decide (barring a miraculous acceptance into NYU, Columbia or Harvard) between GULC (maybe with money), Cornell if I get in (late application), WUSTL (with 40k a year) and IU-Bloomington (full-ride). Aspirations: born and raised in FL, currently at FSU, but am not sure whether I want to return to FL after LS, or live somewhere else (like NY where there's more to do...). On the one hand my whole family is in So Fla and friends and what not, but on the other hand, having never lived out of state, I don't know if I'd more enjoy living somewhere else (hence why I only applied to out-of-state schools).

So my question is this: based on the legal market in FL, would a school like WUSTL or IU have trouble getting me a biglaw job in South Florida somewhere? (Anywhere in the tri-county area). I realize there are other considerations like WUSTL or IU being (un)able to get me into the NY market, but for the sake of this thread I figured I'd just focus on that. Any insight/help is appreciated, thanks!

Edit: Also, to clarify, I'm considering IUB because they have an insane school of music, and as a (current) music major, I'd say my QoL would be pretty substantially increased by something like that. A personal consideration worth... considering.

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Gail
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Re: Florida Legal Market

Postby Gail » Fri Mar 02, 2012 1:17 am

That's not a personal choice worth considering.


If you love music, grooveshark your tunes.

Bang. I've just improved your quality of life immensely.

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clarion
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Re: Florida Legal Market

Postby clarion » Fri Mar 02, 2012 1:52 am

Gail wrote:That's not a personal choice worth considering.


If you love music, grooveshark your tunes.

Bang. I've just improved your quality of life immensely.


Lol I would that it were that simple. But thanks for the advice :P I mean, don't get me wrong, it's just a consideration if the ultimate jobs prospects prove worthwhile. Otherwise I have NO problem putting them aside as an option. You could compare it to being a HUGE fan of football and liking the idea of going to a LS with a great football team. Sure you could watch the games on TV, and obviously that shouldn't be the primary deciding factor, but there's nothing wrong with keeping it in mind. Especially if that school with the awesome team offers you a full-ride hahah

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Re: Florida Legal Market

Postby duckmoney » Fri Mar 02, 2012 10:20 am

clarion wrote:Hey guys, rather than starting my own personalized thread, I figured I might as well tag onto this one. I'm currently trying to decide (barring a miraculous acceptance into NYU, Columbia or Harvard) between GULC (maybe with money), Cornell if I get in (late application), WUSTL (with 40k a year) and IU-Bloomington (full-ride). Aspirations: born and raised in FL, currently at FSU, but am not sure whether I want to return to FL after LS, or live somewhere else (like NY where there's more to do...). On the one hand my whole family is in So Fla and friends and what not, but on the other hand, having never lived out of state, I don't know if I'd more enjoy living somewhere else (hence why I only applied to out-of-state schools).

So my question is this: based on the legal market in FL, would a school like WUSTL or IU have trouble getting me a biglaw job in South Florida somewhere? (Anywhere in the tri-county area). I realize there are other considerations like WUSTL or IU being (un)able to get me into the NY market, but for the sake of this thread I figured I'd just focus on that. Any insight/help is appreciated, thanks!

Edit: Also, to clarify, I'm considering IUB because they have an insane school of music, and as a (current) music major, I'd say my QoL would be pretty substantially increased by something like that. A personal consideration worth... considering.


You will absolutely with 100% certainty not be able to find a job in Florida out of IUB. Unless you're top 10% at WUSTL and can convince them that it's a national school (it's really not), you won't be able to get back to Florida.

GULC is without a doubt your best bet out of what you listed, although I would be very hesitant to pay full price there. FSU / UF with money might be worth considering if you applied, but if not I think that ship has sailed.

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Re: Florida Legal Market

Postby Indifferent » Fri Mar 02, 2012 10:49 am

clarion wrote:Hey guys, rather than starting my own personalized thread, I figured I might as well tag onto this one. I'm currently trying to decide (barring a miraculous acceptance into NYU, Columbia or Harvard) between GULC (maybe with money), Cornell if I get in (late application), WUSTL (with 40k a year) and IU-Bloomington (full-ride). Aspirations: born and raised in FL, currently at FSU, but am not sure whether I want to return to FL after LS, or live somewhere else (like NY where there's more to do...). On the one hand my whole family is in So Fla and friends and what not, but on the other hand, having never lived out of state, I don't know if I'd more enjoy living somewhere else (hence why I only applied to out-of-state schools).

So my question is this: based on the legal market in FL, would a school like WUSTL or IU have trouble getting me a biglaw job in South Florida somewhere? (Anywhere in the tri-county area). I realize there are other considerations like WUSTL or IU being (un)able to get me into the NY market, but for the sake of this thread I figured I'd just focus on that. Any insight/help is appreciated, thanks!

Edit: Also, to clarify, I'm considering IUB because they have an insane school of music, and as a (current) music major, I'd say my QoL would be pretty substantially increased by something like that. A personal consideration worth... considering.

A quick Martindale search reveals that there are merely 10 attorneys in the entire state of Florida from WUSTL and only 123 from IUB. Just for perspective, this is in comparison to 9668 attorneys from the University of Miami. Going to either of these schools would put you at a significant disadvantage, since you'd essentially be on your own for your job search and you won't have many (if any) alumni to connect with. Ultimately, if you did well at either school you could probably find a big law or small law job in Florida due to your connections to Florida, but it would be difficult to do so and would require a lot of leg work. The fact that you would not be in state to network may also disadvantage you, although you could probably cure that if you found work in Florida your 1L summer. Finally, NALP reveals that only 4 unique Florida firms come to OCI at Wash U (which was actually better than what I was expecting) and 0 come to IUB.

Alternatively, I think I school like GULC would be a better fit if you want to return to Florida, especially if you want to work at a big firm. A NALP search for GULC Florida firms reveals that GULC gets 11 unique Florida firms at OCI. In addition, in attending GULC, not only will you be closer to Florida and living in a major, interesting city, but you'll be at an advantage mass mailing because (at least I imagine) smaller Florida firms will recognize that GULC is a good school, whereas they probably would not for IUB and might not for WUSTL.

The same that is true of GULC is probably true of Cornell, though Cornell only gets 2 Florida firms at OCI according to NALP.

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Re: Florida Legal Market

Postby ralph_pootawn » Fri Mar 02, 2012 11:43 am

Indifferent wrote:
clarion wrote:Hey guys, rather than starting my own personalized thread, I figured I might as well tag onto this one. I'm currently trying to decide (barring a miraculous acceptance into NYU, Columbia or Harvard) between GULC (maybe with money), Cornell if I get in (late application), WUSTL (with 40k a year) and IU-Bloomington (full-ride). Aspirations: born and raised in FL, currently at FSU, but am not sure whether I want to return to FL after LS, or live somewhere else (like NY where there's more to do...). On the one hand my whole family is in So Fla and friends and what not, but on the other hand, having never lived out of state, I don't know if I'd more enjoy living somewhere else (hence why I only applied to out-of-state schools).

So my question is this: based on the legal market in FL, would a school like WUSTL or IU have trouble getting me a biglaw job in South Florida somewhere? (Anywhere in the tri-county area). I realize there are other considerations like WUSTL or IU being (un)able to get me into the NY market, but for the sake of this thread I figured I'd just focus on that. Any insight/help is appreciated, thanks!

Edit: Also, to clarify, I'm considering IUB because they have an insane school of music, and as a (current) music major, I'd say my QoL would be pretty substantially increased by something like that. A personal consideration worth... considering.

A quick Martindale search reveals that there are merely 10 attorneys in the entire state of Florida from WUSTL and only 123 from IUB. Just for perspective, this is in comparison to 9668 attorneys from the University of Miami. Going to either of these schools would put you at a significant disadvantage, since you'd essentially be on your own for your job search and you won't have many (if any) alumni to connect with. Ultimately, if you did well at either school you could probably find a big law or small law job in Florida due to your connections to Florida, but it would be difficult to do so and would require a lot of leg work. The fact that you would not be in state to network may also disadvantage you, although you could probably cure that if you found work in Florida your 1L summer. Finally, NALP reveals that only 4 unique Florida firms come to OCI at Wash U (which was actually better than what I was expecting) and 0 come to IUB.

Alternatively, I think I school like GULC would be a better fit if you want to return to Florida, especially if you want to work at a big firm. A NALP search for GULC Florida firms reveals that GULC gets 11 unique Florida firms at OCI. In addition, in attending GULC, not only will you be closer to Florida and living in a major, interesting city, but you'll be at an advantage mass mailing because (at least I imagine) smaller Florida firms will recognize that GULC is a good school, whereas they probably would not for IUB and might not for WUSTL.

The same that is true of GULC is probably true of Cornell, though Cornell only gets 2 Florida firms at OCI according to NALP.


I am messing around on the NALP website and was wondering where/how you found the firms that go to a specific schools oci. Thanks

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Re: Florida Legal Market

Postby Indifferent » Fri Mar 02, 2012 11:55 am

ralph_pootawn wrote:I am messing around on the NALP website and was wondering where/how you found the firms that go to a specific schools oci. Thanks

nalpdirectory.com >> Advanced Search >> Select the school you are looking for in the "campus interviews" section >> search

ralph_pootawn
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Re: Florida Legal Market

Postby ralph_pootawn » Fri Mar 02, 2012 12:18 pm

Indifferent wrote:
ralph_pootawn wrote:I am messing around on the NALP website and was wondering where/how you found the firms that go to a specific schools oci. Thanks

nalpdirectory.com >> Advanced Search >> Select the school you are looking for in the "campus interviews" section >> search


Thanks!

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clarion
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Re: Florida Legal Market

Postby clarion » Fri Mar 02, 2012 12:31 pm

Thank you for the info! Always nice to receive opinions backed by stats instead of the usual "Go to GULC because it's T14." :P It's very much appreciated!

curiousnole
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Re: Florida Legal Market

Postby curiousnole » Fri Mar 02, 2012 1:29 pm

Does the total number of OCIs at a school directly affect the job prospects? Or is this not a good measure because most firms will only take one, but some will take more?

rad lulz
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Re: Florida Legal Market

Postby rad lulz » Fri Mar 02, 2012 1:38 pm

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Last edited by rad lulz on Sun Apr 21, 2013 5:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Indifferent
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Re: Florida Legal Market

Postby Indifferent » Fri Mar 02, 2012 1:42 pm

curiousnole wrote:Does the total number of OCIs at a school directly affect the job prospects? Or is this not a good measure because most firms will only take one, but some will take more?

It's a good but not great measure. Just because a firm isn't coming to OCI doesn't mean they wouldn't hire you, and just because a firm is coming to OCI doesn't mean they're going to hire you (although, it's safe to say they're probably going to hire someone, OCI is expensive).

Generally speaking, though, better schools get more employers at OCI.

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Re: Florida Legal Market

Postby reformed calvinist » Tue Mar 06, 2012 12:14 am

mrtoren wrote:I've heard nothing but bad things about the Florida legal market on these forums. The order is usually:

T14 ------> UF or FSU --------------------> U Miami ------> Other FL schools

Out-of-state schools that are also outside of the T14 will not place nearly as well as those in Florida. This is true of nearly every market though. If you go to those schools, you'll probably have to do some legwork.


The difference between T14 and UF/FSU is a lot steeper than the difference between UF/FSU and Miami.

It should be more like:
T14----------------------->UF or FSU----->Miami-------------->Other FL schools.

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Re: Florida Legal Market

Postby reformed calvinist » Tue Mar 06, 2012 12:18 am

Cupidity wrote:Florida has a large but decentralized legal market. Aside from a few 100-150 attorney biglaw offices in Miami and Tampa, the typical Florida law firm is 25-50, with salaries around 75k starting (which, adjusted for COL, is easily worth 160k in NYC/DC). There is a very substantial mid-law market, with many purely Floridian firms with a handful of offices in Jax, Orlando, Miami, West Palm Beach, and Tampa.

The key to doing well in Florida is to become a specialist, as you see very few big firms that hire "litigation associates." More often you need to develop an interest such as, real estate law, employment law, products liability, construction law, etc., and then target mid-sized firms specializing in that practice.


This. There are a lot of very solid non-NLJ midlaw firms in Florida. In a peculiar state like Florida, you don't want to just go by that. And nota bene that a secondary market office of a V100 or NLJ firm is not necessarily better than a FL or SE only firm. And Miami's an expensive city, I don't quite agree that 75k there is the equivalent of 160k in NY, even with state and city tax. It depends how you live.

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Re: Florida Legal Market

Postby reformed calvinist » Tue Mar 06, 2012 12:20 am

rad lulz wrote:Pinellas County is basically an archetypal example of urban sprawl. It's largely a characterless void.


moar like pinga-ellas

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clarion
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Re: Florida Legal Market

Postby clarion » Tue Mar 06, 2012 1:33 am

reformed calvinist wrote:
Cupidity wrote:Florida has a large but decentralized legal market. Aside from a few 100-150 attorney biglaw offices in Miami and Tampa, the typical Florida law firm is 25-50, with salaries around 75k starting (which, adjusted for COL, is easily worth 160k in NYC/DC). There is a very substantial mid-law market, with many purely Floridian firms with a handful of offices in Jax, Orlando, Miami, West Palm Beach, and Tampa.

The key to doing well in Florida is to become a specialist, as you see very few big firms that hire "litigation associates." More often you need to develop an interest such as, real estate law, employment law, products liability, construction law, etc., and then target mid-sized firms specializing in that practice.


This. There are a lot of very solid non-NLJ midlaw firms in Florida. In a peculiar state like Florida, you don't want to just go by that. And nota bene that a secondary market office of a V100 or NLJ firm is not necessarily better than a FL or SE only firm. And Miami's an expensive city, I don't quite agree that 75k there is the equivalent of 160k in NY, even with state and city tax. It depends how you live.


Just to chime in, according to cnn's online cost of living calculator, 160 in Manhattan is the equivalent of 78 in Miami. Personally, as a south Florida native (in the suburbs less than five minutes from Dade county as we speak), I'd say that probably checks out. Aside from Cnn money, bankrate.com's calculator is really awesome (also says 160 = 78) and even breaks down the cost difference of everything from energy, medical, and phone bills, to beers, pizzas, bowling and movies.

And saying it depends how you live is kinda unspecific since after all, being a millionaire in Wyoming could be insufficient to suit your needs "depending on how you live" :P




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