Florida Legal Market

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Cupidity
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Re: Florida Legal Market

Postby Cupidity » Wed Feb 29, 2012 3:36 pm

arigoldwannabe wrote:
duckmoney wrote:
arigoldwannabe wrote:1L @ FSU. Top 6%.

Anyone have any information at my odds for the larger firms in the state (Carlton Fields, Akerman, H&K, GT, GrayRobinson...) or the Vault firm's satellite offices in MIA??


Probably solidly in the running, especially in markets you have strong ties to. The huge firms like H&K, GT, Foley, and the NYC satellite offices tend to favor T14. The smaller and more local firms (GrayRobinson, Gunster, Fowler White, Broad and Cassel) are more likely to hire from FL schools.


So would I be in a better spot staying where I am or attempting to transfer to the T-14?

FYI: I have significant ties throughout S. Florida.


This is not my experience at all. I worked in Jax last summer, and nearly every person I spoke to at Gray Robinson or Gunster was a UF or FSU student, with a smattering of, gasp, Florida Coastal Students. Foley only takes 2 or 3 SA's in the entire state, and I know one was from UF since I worked with him at my internship.

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Gail
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Re: Florida Legal Market

Postby Gail » Thu Mar 01, 2012 12:33 am

http://www.lawschooltransparency

.com/documents/NALPReports/2010/Florida_Redacted.pdf


Florida looks scary right now.

rad lulz
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Re: Florida Legal Market

Postby rad lulz » Thu Mar 01, 2012 1:17 am

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NYC Law
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Re: Florida Legal Market

Postby NYC Law » Thu Mar 01, 2012 1:21 am

InGoodFaith wrote:Estates. All those old people are going away eventually.


Except no one [in FL] has any money

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romothesavior
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Re: Florida Legal Market

Postby romothesavior » Thu Mar 01, 2012 1:25 am

rad lulz wrote:there were probably like 23 SA in all of Tampa. Probably a similar number for Orlando. I'd wager 50ish for Miami. Don't know a ton about North FL.

So in other words, going to Stetson or Miami because they "own" those markets (which is a highly dubious claim to begin with) is still rucking fetarded because there are no jerbz. And before someone comes back with, "But what aboot teh gummint and small firm jerbz?!?1?", please note that there are not 300 government and small firm job openings in Tampa and Miami, and even if they were, they aren't all going to these local "powerhouse" lawl schools.

I hope we have all learned this important and valuable lesson.

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Re: Florida Legal Market

Postby rad lulz » Thu Mar 01, 2012 1:32 am

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NYC Law
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Re: Florida Legal Market

Postby NYC Law » Thu Mar 01, 2012 1:37 am

A year or two ago I think all of FL had like 60 SA spots according to NALP
And Cooley Tampa is already up and running, classes start in May. So 12 law schools now.
My general impression of the FL legal market is that it's dominated by foreclosure, bankruptcy, personal injury, DUI, construction, and so on. Not a ton of commercial activity, at least in Mid FL. I'd generally stay away from the FL legal market. It's not pretty.

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caputlupinum
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Re: Florida Legal Market

Postby caputlupinum » Thu Mar 01, 2012 11:11 am

NYC Law wrote:A year or two ago I think all of FL had like 60 SA spots according to NALP
And Cooley Tampa is already up and running, classes start in May. So 12 law schools now.
My general impression of the FL legal market is that it's dominated by foreclosure, bankruptcy, personal injury, DUI, construction, and so on. Not a ton of commercial activity, at least in Mid FL. I'd generally stay away from the FL legal market. It's not pretty.



What if you have no interest in commercial transactions/litigation/insurance whatsoever and you really want to do personal injury/plaintiffs side litigation? Would you not go to a school with little to no debt in an area with a Low COL?

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goldenflash19
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Re: Florida Legal Market

Postby goldenflash19 » Thu Mar 01, 2012 11:18 am

I was offered full tuition from Stetson. If I'm not in a biglaw or bust mentality and want to do criminal law, would this be an okay option? I'd love to live in the area. Disclaimer, absolutely no ties to Florida, but my immediate family has mentioned the possibility of following me to St Pete if I'd go to Stetson.

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Re: Florida Legal Market

Postby Geaux12 » Thu Mar 01, 2012 11:31 am

goldenflash19 wrote:I was offered full tuition from Stetson. If I'm not in a biglaw or bust mentality and want to do criminal law, would this be an okay option? I'd love to live in the area. Disclaimer, absolutely no ties to Florida, but my immediate family has mentioned the possibility of following me to St Pete if I'd go to Stetson.


St. Pete is an amazing place to live, I've always planned on coming home. But just like any place in the country, there are circles of people that simply can't be broken into unless you're from the area. St. Pete itself is a small legal market; you'd be looking for work across the bridge. And a degree from Stetson isn't the best recommdation an outsider can have.

Stetson has turned out plenty of fantastic, successful attorneys. But I think we all know that we're living in different times.

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Re: Florida Legal Market

Postby caputlupinum » Thu Mar 01, 2012 11:36 am

Geaux12 wrote:
goldenflash19 wrote:I was offered full tuition from Stetson. If I'm not in a biglaw or bust mentality and want to do criminal law, would this be an okay option? I'd love to live in the area. Disclaimer, absolutely no ties to Florida, but my immediate family has mentioned the possibility of following me to St Pete if I'd go to Stetson.


St. Pete is an amazing place to live, I've always planned on coming home. But just like any place in the country, there are circles of people that simply can't be broken into unless you're from the area. St. Pete itself is a small legal market; you'd be looking for work across the bridge. And a degree from Stetson isn't the best recommdation an outsider can have.

Stetson has turned out plenty of fantastic, successful attorneys. But I think we all know that we're living in different times.



That is so weird because every attorney and banker(JD) (family friends) I have or my parents have talked to said it dominated the market and was a very respected school in tampa bay?

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Re: Florida Legal Market

Postby caputlupinum » Thu Mar 01, 2012 11:41 am

Geaux12 wrote:
goldenflash19 wrote:I was offered full tuition from Stetson. If I'm not in a biglaw or bust mentality and want to do criminal law, would this be an okay option? I'd love to live in the area. Disclaimer, absolutely no ties to Florida, but my immediate family has mentioned the possibility of following me to St Pete if I'd go to Stetson.


St. Pete is an amazing place to live, I've always planned on coming home. But just like any place in the country, there are circles of people that simply can't be broken into unless you're from the area. St. Pete itself is a small legal market; you'd be looking for work across the bridge. And a degree from Stetson isn't the best recommdation an outsider can have.

Stetson has turned out plenty of fantastic, successful attorneys. But I think we all know that we're living in different times.


Also so say one of your parents is from there but hasent lived there in 20 years but you still have lots of banking(sun trust/ Raymond James) connections there through extended family (aunts/uncles/cousins) and one family connection who knows all of the federal judges there personally is that "ties" or do you have to be from there?

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Re: Florida Legal Market

Postby Indifferent » Thu Mar 01, 2012 11:48 am

arigoldwannabe wrote:
duckmoney wrote:
arigoldwannabe wrote:1L @ FSU. Top 6%.

Anyone have any information at my odds for the larger firms in the state (Carlton Fields, Akerman, H&K, GT, GrayRobinson...) or the Vault firm's satellite offices in MIA??


Probably solidly in the running, especially in markets you have strong ties to. The huge firms like H&K, GT, Foley, and the NYC satellite offices tend to favor T14. The smaller and more local firms (GrayRobinson, Gunster, Fowler White, Broad and Cassel) are more likely to hire from FL schools.


So would I be in a better spot staying where I am or attempting to transfer to the T-14?

FYI: I have significant ties throughout S. Florida.

I don't really know how Florida school --> T14 transfers generally fare, but I imagine it would put you in substantially the same position you'd be if you stayed. I think it would hurt you if you were interviewing with firms that have a lot of FSU alumni, but I don't necessarily think that will come into consideration since you're interested in So Fla and there aren't a ton of FSU alums down there (in comparison to UF or UM).

From what I've heard of friends working in South Florida, firms REALLY like people with ties there. So you've got that advantage going for you. I honestly don't think that transferring up will put you at THAT much of an advantage when it comes to OCI, but I can't really speak for how FSU students fare in So Fla (I imagine top 10% should put you in a very good position). I'd ask around the 2L and 3L classes, trying to target people who worked at So Fla firms and ask them questions.

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Re: Florida Legal Market

Postby NYC Law » Thu Mar 01, 2012 12:09 pm

Geaux12 wrote:
goldenflash19 wrote:I was offered full tuition from Stetson. If I'm not in a biglaw or bust mentality and want to do criminal law, would this be an okay option? I'd love to live in the area. Disclaimer, absolutely no ties to Florida, but my immediate family has mentioned the possibility of following me to St Pete if I'd go to Stetson.


St. Pete is an amazing place to live, I've always planned on coming home. But just like any place in the country, there are circles of people that simply can't be broken into unless you're from the area. St. Pete itself is a small legal market; you'd be looking for work across the bridge. And a degree from Stetson isn't the best recommdation an outsider can have.

Stetson has turned out plenty of fantastic, successful attorneys. But I think we all know that we're living in different times.


Relevant

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NYC Law
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Re: Florida Legal Market

Postby NYC Law » Thu Mar 01, 2012 12:11 pm

caputlupinum wrote:
NYC Law wrote:A year or two ago I think all of FL had like 60 SA spots according to NALP
And Cooley Tampa is already up and running, classes start in May. So 12 law schools now.
My general impression of the FL legal market is that it's dominated by foreclosure, bankruptcy, personal injury, DUI, construction, and so on. Not a ton of commercial activity, at least in Mid FL. I'd generally stay away from the FL legal market. It's not pretty.



What if you have no interest in commercial transactions/litigation/insurance whatsoever and you really want to do personal injury/plaintiffs side litigation? Would you not go to a school with little to no debt in an area with a Low COL?


If you know ahead of time that you want to do shitlaw then yes, go to a cheap school in a cheap area.

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Re: Florida Legal Market

Postby rad lulz » Thu Mar 01, 2012 12:43 pm

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Re: Florida Legal Market

Postby rad lulz » Thu Mar 01, 2012 12:44 pm

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Mitch McDeere
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Re: Florida Legal Market

Postby Mitch McDeere » Thu Mar 01, 2012 12:48 pm

Indifferent wrote:
arigoldwannabe wrote:
duckmoney wrote:
arigoldwannabe wrote:1L @ FSU. Top 6%.

Anyone have any information at my odds for the larger firms in the state (Carlton Fields, Akerman, H&K, GT, GrayRobinson...) or the Vault firm's satellite offices in MIA??


Probably solidly in the running, especially in markets you have strong ties to. The huge firms like H&K, GT, Foley, and the NYC satellite offices tend to favor T14. The smaller and more local firms (GrayRobinson, Gunster, Fowler White, Broad and Cassel) are more likely to hire from FL schools.


So would I be in a better spot staying where I am or attempting to transfer to the T-14?

FYI: I have significant ties throughout S. Florida.

I don't really know how Florida school --> T14 transfers generally fare, but I imagine it would put you in substantially the same position you'd be if you stayed. I think it would hurt you if you were interviewing with firms that have a lot of FSU alumni, but I don't necessarily think that will come into consideration since you're interested in So Fla and there aren't a ton of FSU alums down there (in comparison to UF or UM).

From what I've heard of friends working in South Florida, firms REALLY like people with ties there. So you've got that advantage going for you. I honestly don't think that transferring up will put you at THAT much of an advantage when it comes to OCI, but I can't really speak for how FSU students fare in So Fla (I imagine top 10% should put you in a very good position). I'd ask around the 2L and 3L classes, trying to target people who worked at So Fla firms and ask them questions.


2L at FSU here. FWIW, I would vote against transferring if you know you want to work in Florida after graduation. I was in a similar position after my 1L year, but now that I've gone through OCI and have a better understanding of the FL legal market, I'm glad I stayed. I had no interest in working in NYC after graduation and was only considering transferring in hopes of boosting my chances at one of the few SA jobs in state. Truth is, your chances at FSU are just as good if not better than a transfer student at a T14. By leaving you run the risk of looking like a flight risk to the firms (I actually had one attorney tell me during a call back that they would be hesitant to hire someone who transferred out of state in fear that they didn't really want to be there). Not to mention the fact that you would probably end up paying over twice as much in tuition.

Plus (and this may be the biggest reason), a lot of the midlaw firms in state don't interview at T14s. I would guess that these firms are where a lot of the jobs are in FL, and you would really hurt your chances at these if they don't come to your new school's OCI.

In terms of SoFla, I know of a handful of people who landed biglaw SA positions down there through OCI. However, it seemed to me like we had the same number if not more employers from the rest of the state come to OCI (Tampa, Orlando, Jacksonville and of course Tally). Don't quote me on this though since I wasn't personally that interested in South Florida when I interviewed. The bottom line is that there really are only a handful of SA positions to go around in FL. BUT you are competitive for them all if you stay.

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Re: Florida Legal Market

Postby timbs4339 » Thu Mar 01, 2012 12:49 pm

caputlupinum wrote:That is so weird because every attorney and banker(JD) (family friends) I have or my parents have talked to said it dominated the market and was a very respected school in tampa bay?


These are older, established people. For them life is grand and obviously any law school is a good investment because it worked out for them or they know people it's worked out for. They probably have no idea what the market for entry-levels is like right now. You should seriously discount anything someone who hasn't graduated in the last five years says about the job market unless they are guaranteeing you a job.

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Re: Florida Legal Market

Postby Indifferent » Thu Mar 01, 2012 12:57 pm

Mitch McDeere wrote: By leaving you run the risk of looking like a flight risk to the firms (I actually had one attorney tell me during a call back that they would be hesitant to hire someone who transferred out of state in fear that they didn't really want to be there).

I would have guessed this was generally true, though I was hesitant to go right out and say it.

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Re: Florida Legal Market

Postby romothesavior » Thu Mar 01, 2012 1:04 pm

rad lulz wrote:
caputlupinum wrote:That is so weird because every attorney and banker(JD) (family friends) I have or my parents have talked to said it dominated the market and was a very respected school in tampa bay?

It's respected; too bad the market sucks and there are few jobs. You have a decent chance at graduating from Stetson unemployed or underemployed.

Exactly. I hate when people make claims that "XYZ Regional School dominates its market/is so well respected." Yeah maybe so, but when there are only couple hundred entry-level jobs TOPS and only like 50-100 decent ones, and those jobs are divvied up among multiple schools, how can it make sense to a school that graduates 300+ and had little mobility outside of this tiny market?

It doesn't matter how much the market respects your school if they can't give you a job.

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Re: Florida Legal Market

Postby Geaux12 » Thu Mar 01, 2012 1:13 pm

That article always makes me laugh. Goes to show that most "rankings" these magazines put out based on questionable metrics are bullshit. I think if you spent time in DTSP or St. Pete Beach you'd have a very different view of the city.

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Re: Florida Legal Market

Postby NYC Law » Thu Mar 01, 2012 1:31 pm

Geaux12 wrote:That article always makes me laugh. Goes to show that most "rankings" these magazines put out based on questionable metrics are bullshit. I think if you spent time in DTSP or St. Pete Beach you'd have a very different view of the city.


I've spent the majority of my life in the area, it's objectively shit.

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Re: Florida Legal Market

Postby rad lulz » Thu Mar 01, 2012 1:34 pm

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Re: Florida Legal Market

Postby caputlupinum » Thu Mar 01, 2012 1:36 pm

NYC Law wrote:
Geaux12 wrote:That article always makes me laugh. Goes to show that most "rankings" these magazines put out based on questionable metrics are bullshit. I think if you spent time in DTSP or St. Pete Beach you'd have a very different view of the city.


I've spent the majority of my life in the area, it's objectively shit.


See I have been there (tampa and clearwater not st pete) many times to visit family and I really like it. While I loved NYC for the first year the last year+ I lived there I hated the place sure the clubs where fun and there is stuff to do but the COL is redic and you are trapped on an ugly concrete island.... I think its all relative...




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