Is there simply little to no hope for smart applicants?

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CWilliamson
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Is there simply little to no hope for smart applicants?

Postby CWilliamson » Tue Jan 10, 2012 1:00 am

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Last edited by CWilliamson on Tue Jan 10, 2012 2:24 am, edited 1 time in total.

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FlanAl
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Re: Is there simply little to no hope for smart applicants?

Postby FlanAl » Tue Jan 10, 2012 1:08 am

on this board yeah probably but it totally depends on who you are and what you want to do. I know a good number of people who are going to t2's and working at their parent's firms etc. where they are guaranteed a job when they graduate. if the jd is just a requirement to join the family business then go for it.

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piccolittle
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Re: Is there simply little to no hope for smart applicants?

Postby piccolittle » Tue Jan 10, 2012 1:09 am

The good news is the ABA will never let your law school dream die. It's your employment prospects that would be stinking up the room. I'd go with retake or get ready to work your butt off for no guarantees.

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Richie Tenenbaum
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Re: Is there simply little to no hope for smart applicants?

Postby Richie Tenenbaum » Tue Jan 10, 2012 1:16 am

Request LSAC to retake for a fourth time.

How on earth did you underperform your average so badly? Were you properly timing yourself under test day conditions when practicing? Or did you "cheat" and allow yourself a few minutes more sometimes?

To answer your question though: You should probably let your dream die if you can't retake or you don't want to wait two years to reapply. The schools you can get accepted to right now are not worth attending unless you have a job lined up for after law school.

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Tom Joad
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Re: Is there simply little to no hope for smart applicants?

Postby Tom Joad » Tue Jan 10, 2012 1:19 am

I find this thread title deceptive.

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beachbum
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Re: Is there simply little to no hope for smart applicants?

Postby beachbum » Tue Jan 10, 2012 1:28 am

You can either let your dream die by choosing to forgo law school, or you can watch your dream go up in flames as you accumulate mountains of debt at some TTT.

Or you can retake the LSAT. Either wait it out or request an additional retake. Your call. But you need to determine what is preventing you from achieving a good score. You clearly believe you have a lot of unrealized potential: well, prove it. Your GPA is subpar, and your testing performances have been lacking. You need to demonstrate that potential by achieving a high 160s/low 170s LSAT, which will also make law school a worthwhile endeavor. Good luck.

Geist13
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Re: Is there simply little to no hope for smart applicants?

Postby Geist13 » Tue Jan 10, 2012 1:40 am

You repeatedly refer to this dream, yet I get the sense you have no idea what this dream actually is, other than something incredibly romantic. It's a freaking career path, not a dream.

Also, "smart applicants?" You did OK in college, better than I, just as good as most people who don't put in any effort. You did not great on the LSAT. 77th percentile sounds nice but, so many people take the test. It's like saying you're in the 77th percentile for the timed mile in a class of people who weigh over 300 pounds. The percentile just doesn't mean much. So to say that on these objective accounts you should be considered a "smart applicant" is just kind of silly. You're an average applicant, just like almost everyone else. That doesn't mean you're not smart, it means that you are just an average applicant, nothing special (not great, not terrible). Here's the kicker: it's absurd to think that being average should be good enough for anything, especially something you consider your dream.

Like other posters said, you will easily get into some schools that will give you an entirely acceptable education. What those schools won't give you is an acceptable chance at actually having a career that even resembles "a dream," much less one that is capable of servicing your likely debt load.

CWilliamson
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Re: Is there simply little to no hope for smart applicants?

Postby CWilliamson » Tue Jan 10, 2012 2:10 am

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Last edited by CWilliamson on Tue Jan 10, 2012 2:24 am, edited 1 time in total.

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sunynp
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Re: Is there simply little to no hope for smart applicants?

Postby sunynp » Tue Jan 10, 2012 2:19 am

Now you're getting it op. Also note that the number frequently reported by schools as a median salary is just a statistic. Almost no one , if indeed anyone, actually earns the median salary. I pointed this out in another thread the other day, but I find the whole use of median salary is misleading. Just wanted to be sure you knew that as you mentioned a salary of 70k.

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eaper
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Re: Is there simply little to no hope for smart applicants?

Postby eaper » Tue Jan 10, 2012 2:25 am

CWilliamson wrote:
Geist13 wrote:You repeatedly refer to this dream, yet I get the sense you have no idea what this dream actually is, other than something incredibly romantic. It's a freaking career path, not a dream.

Also, "smart applicants?" You did OK in college, better than I, just as good as most people who don't put in any effort. You did not great on the LSAT. 77th percentile sounds nice but, so many people take the test. It's like saying you're in the 77th percentile for the timed mile in a class of people who weigh over 300 pounds. The percentile just doesn't mean much. So to say that on these objective accounts you should be considered a "smart applicant" is just kind of silly. You're an average applicant, just like almost everyone else. That doesn't mean you're not smart, it means that you are just an average applicant, nothing special (not great, not terrible). Here's the kicker: it's absurd to think that being average should be good enough for anything, especially something you consider your dream.

Like other posters said, you will easily get into some schools that will give you an entirely acceptable education. What those schools won't give you is an acceptable chance at actually having a career that even resembles "a dream," much less one that is capable of servicing your likely debt load.



Let me clear this idea of a "dream" up. When I say that a career in law is my dream (and hence law school must also be a part of that dream) I do not consider working for BigLaw a part of that. I currently work for a tier 1 law firm in NC (according to USNews) and have the chance to rejoin them post graduation. Yes my GPA was average at best and yes maybe I think I'm smarter than I really am.

Maybe the real issue I am having is that I cannot understand how the only schools really worth anyones money are the top 14. If in practice this really is the case, how the HELL do all these other T2 schools exist? Not to mention the TTT or TTTTTTTT schools.

At the end of the day, I want to end up in a firm thats respectable and making a respectable salary. I'm not into impressing the population with the name on my degree. I simply want to attend a practical school where I can expect to have respectable job prospects (70k plus) should I do well. But it seems that even this is too much to ask for from any school outside an elite few.


It's more that it is too much to expect outside the t14 or upper T1s. I mean, if you graduate top 10% at a TT school, you can still get paid well, it's just that 90% of the people in your class aren't in that position. Also, if you're already working for a good firm, you have a bit better chance than someone straight out of college to get back into that firm. If you want to work for them, you should talk to some of the management, see what type of school you need or what type of grades you need to get back in there, then decide from that.

Also, TTT+ schools exist because they can make money. Yes, some of the students that graduate from these schools do manage to make good money, it's just that you can't count on something like that happening, especially in this economic climate.

In short- find out what you need to get back with that firm (if that's where you want to work). It is likely, since you already have your foot in the door, that it won't be as difficult as it would for someone like me, with no ties to the company, to get in. If you need a better score/to go to a better school, retake. If they give you no guarantees, retake. If you don't have a lot of money saved up that you're willing to spend on law school, retake.

American_in_China
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Re: Is there simply little to no hope for smart applicants?

Postby American_in_China » Tue Jan 10, 2012 3:35 am

In all fairness, you're missing one point- you scored at 78% of LSAT test takers, no 78% of law students, or 78% of lawyers. You have to go down to TTT to find schools that hit the 60th percentile range of test takers. A lot of people goof off and take the test with no real intention of going into law, and a lot more see how bad their scores are and choose something else.

Anyways, sorry to be a dream crusher.




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