Good midwestern school with a 163 and 3.9?

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dkang
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Good midwestern school with a 163 and 3.9?

Postby dkang » Mon Jan 09, 2012 11:19 pm

Im looking at good and/or underrated schools. i have a 163 LSAT and a 3.9 but its from a weaker undergrad school.

I am looking at Ohio State, UNC, Wake Forest and U of Illinois. Any other suggestions?

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romothesavior
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Re: Good midwestern school with a 163 and 3.9?

Postby romothesavior » Mon Jan 09, 2012 11:25 pm

Get a better LSAT and re-apply. The schools you mentioned are all okay, but not worth sticker or close to it, which is what you will be paying. Pretty much any T20 with a big scholarship would be a solid option. 6-8 points on the LSAT will get you into a T14, which would also be good for landing the Midwest.

Also, the Carolinas are not in the Midwest.

charliep
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Re: Good midwestern school with a 163 and 3.9?

Postby charliep » Mon Jan 09, 2012 11:33 pm

you'd probably get a half-ride to ohio state

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romothesavior
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Re: Good midwestern school with a 163 and 3.9?

Postby romothesavior » Mon Jan 09, 2012 11:33 pm

charliep wrote:you'd probably get a half-ride to ohio state

Probably would get some money to Wake too, maybe UNC. Still not worth it. If a year and a half of law school and two and a half years on TLS have taught me anything, its to go to an elite law school, or go for dirt cheap. The investment just isn't going to pay off for most people.

wiscohopeful
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Re: Good midwestern school with a 163 and 3.9?

Postby wiscohopeful » Tue Jan 10, 2012 1:01 pm

Thought about MN? They have a stranglehold over the Minneapolis/St. Paul legal market and place decently well in Chicago. Cost isn't crazy and its relatively easy to get residency.

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TommyK
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Re: Good midwestern school with a 163 and 3.9?

Postby TommyK » Tue Jan 10, 2012 1:04 pm

3.9 Gpas have been getting 40k/yr scholly at IUB this year.

OSU would probably get half tuition. No clue about anything else.

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Grizz
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Re: Good midwestern school with a 163 and 3.9?

Postby Grizz » Tue Jan 10, 2012 1:41 pm

wiscohopeful wrote:Thought about MN? They have a stranglehold over the Minneapolis/St. Paul legal market and place decently well in Chicago.

Neither of these things are that true ITE.

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Grizz
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Re: Good midwestern school with a 163 and 3.9?

Postby Grizz » Tue Jan 10, 2012 1:42 pm

TommyK wrote:3.9 Gpas have been getting 40k/yr scholly at IUB this year.

IUB places like freaking Marquette though

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mattviphky
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Re: Good midwestern school with a 163 and 3.9?

Postby mattviphky » Tue Jan 10, 2012 2:09 pm

Grizz wrote:
TommyK wrote:3.9 Gpas have been getting 40k/yr scholly at IUB this year.

IUB places like freaking Marquette though
...who, ironically, gives out very little money. bastards.

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romothesavior
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Re: Good midwestern school with a 163 and 3.9?

Postby romothesavior » Tue Jan 10, 2012 3:52 pm

wiscohopeful wrote:Thought about MN? They have a stranglehold over the Minneapolis/St. Paul legal market and place decently well in Chicago.

1. If by "places decently well in Chicago" you mean it sends a small handful of students into Chicago biglaw, then okay. Chicago is a bloodbath. Unless you go to a T6, Michigan, or Northwestern, you probably have terrible odds at getting Chicago absent top of the class grades. Given UMN's overall NLJ placement (12%) and the current state of the Chicago market, I'd be floored if more than 12-15 people have NLJ 250 Chicago SAs.

2. If by "stranglehold" you mean they take the majority of the Minneapolis/St. Paul jobs, then okay. How many high-5 or 6-figure SA firm jobs do you think there are in Minneapolis? 30? Less? I really have no idea. St. Louis and Indianapolis have 30-40, and I'm sure Minneapolis is similar.

So the the locations you listed as "strangleholds" and "decent locations" for jobs have provided quality jobs for about 10-15% of the class, tops. Maybe not even that ITE. Minnesota had a whopping 12% NLJ placement last year. What's everyone else going to be doing? These T20-30 Midwestern schools like UMN and tOSU are fine schools, they just have mediocre job prospects. Even if OP got in with some money (he probably will get little to nothing from UMN), he has to assume he''ll be making <60k to start. Six figures of debt on a salary he could have probably attained just as easily without a law degree? Not a wise financial decision. Probably smarter to 1) not waste that LSAT score and retake for a better school, or 2) if he really wants to be a lawyer, go somewhere for free.

(fwiw, I go to a peer school and I'd make the same criticisms about my own school)

wiscohopeful
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Re: Good midwestern school with a 163 and 3.9?

Postby wiscohopeful » Tue Jan 10, 2012 8:03 pm

I don't go to UMN. That is just my experience being in MN over the summer and talking with people who work there at law firms (and there are more than 30 jobs in the market per year that take on entry levels that make more than 6 figures). Also, I didn't say MN gets the sickest jobs in Chicago or MN. I said in MN they get most of the jobs out there (minus the state's attorneys jobs which few from that school want and which are flooded with billy mitch, etc. students) and place well in Chicago. Place well does not equate to a 160k a year job...it means they get jobs...

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romothesavior
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Re: Good midwestern school with a 163 and 3.9?

Postby romothesavior » Wed Jan 11, 2012 9:19 am

wiscohopeful wrote:I don't go to UMN. That is just my experience being in MN over the summer and talking with people who work there at law firms (and there are more than 30 jobs in the market per year that take on entry levels that make more than 6 figures). Also, I didn't say MN gets the sickest jobs in Chicago or MN. I said in MN they get most of the jobs out there (minus the state's attorneys jobs which few from that school want and which are flooded with billy mitch, etc. students) and place well in Chicago. Place well does not equate to a 160k a year job...it means they get jobs...

Just counted up the MN NLJ 250 SA jobs. Looks like there were close to 40. Pre-ITE there were maybe double that. Under the "Began Work In 2010" column, it looks like over half were no-offered. Ouch. (This is just based on NALP data... I have little interaction with Minneapolis other than having interviewed for some jobs there. Sometimes there is some fluctuation and difference between the NALP forms and reality due to mistakes in filling out, non-uniform reporting practices, etc. But in any case, its a decent, but not a bustling market ITE.)

Anyways, I'm done nitpicking this. I never said people at UMN don't get jobs in Minneapolis or Chicago. I'm sure many do. But somewhere in the land of 10-15% get market paying jobs, that much we know for certain because of the NLJ 250 numbers. Going six-figures in debt for a 10-15% chance at winning the lottery is not wise. That is my point here, and my (and TLS's) general point. OP has a great GPA, he shouldn't squander it on sticker at UMN or any other T20-30.

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thexfactor
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Re: Good midwestern school with a 163 and 3.9?

Postby thexfactor » Wed Jan 11, 2012 11:35 am

I think the correct answer is UVA ED next cycle over schools like OSU, ND,UIUC, WUSTL.
UVA gives you a better chance to come back to your home market and also gives you a better opportunity to get a job period.

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minnbills
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Re: Good midwestern school with a 163 and 3.9?

Postby minnbills » Wed Jan 11, 2012 4:15 pm

2. If by "stranglehold" you mean they take the majority of the Minneapolis/St. Paul jobs, then okay. How many high-5 or 6-figure SA firm jobs do you think there are in Minneapolis? 30? Less? I really have no idea.


I think it was 75 2L SAs in 2011. Supposedly going up a bit this year. Better, but still not great.

Edit: most firms in MN aren't NLJ, so an NLJ-only count leaves out most of the market paying SAs.

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romothesavior
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Re: Good midwestern school with a 163 and 3.9?

Postby romothesavior » Wed Jan 11, 2012 4:22 pm

minnbills wrote:
2. If by "stranglehold" you mean they take the majority of the Minneapolis/St. Paul jobs, then okay. How many high-5 or 6-figure SA firm jobs do you think there are in Minneapolis? 30? Less? I really have no idea.


I think it was 75 2L SAs in 2011. Supposedly going up a bit this year. Better, but still not great.

Edit: most firms in MN aren't NLJ, so an NLJ-only count leaves out most of the market paying SAs.

Which firms are non-NLJ and pay 6-figures and have summer classes? Maslon, who else?




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