Re: Schools for Overseas Jobs In United Kingdom

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Dunl1
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Re: Schools for Overseas Jobs In United Kingdom

Postby Dunl1 » Mon Jan 02, 2012 4:11 pm

Hi guys,

I've been a lurker here since June of this year when I first started considering taking the LSAT.

A little background on me: I had to cancel my October LSAT. Long story short, I was in the habit of circling answers on the page and I continued to do so on the first section of the actual LSAT. By the time I realized I had to bubble in the scantron it was already too late. I was short half a section so I canceled my score. I just took the December LSAT and feel good about it. My best PT score was 174.

I also went to a top 10 undergraduate university, but unfortunately I was not ready--neither emotionally nor mentally-- to give my best effort. For my first two and a half years of undergrad, I was a mess. My grades were atrocious and my life was not together. I took time off, came back, and then finished my last year with 5 A-s, 2 B+s, 1 B, and 1 B-. I also completed two courses at the University of Miami, earning two A's.

However, all this is somewhat irrelevant with regards to the main purpose of this post. While away from school, and taking two classes at the University of Miami, I met a girl, fell in love, and this summer we became engaged. She is wonderful in every way, and while I love that she's British (the accent and the attitude), it does make things more complicated. While she lives in England now, she plans to come here and work while I'm in law school. However, we want to return to England eventually. I spoke with my law advisor/Dean at Duke and he told me that there are plenty of U.S. law jobs in London. I am sure that this is the case, but I don't know which school will best able to facilitate me in acquiring such a job. Are there any schools that are known to be international law firm feeders? My GPA is abysmal (2.418), so I want be going to any exceptional schools but I still think that I can get into some pretty good schools. I have a year of work experience as a legal assistant at a high end personal injury firm and my record shows that I have gotten it together and that I can have success at a high level university. Which schools might you guys recommend that I consider? Any help at all will be greatly appreciated. This is a wonderful website and resource and I am very glad for it.

I hope that everyone is well and has had a great holiday season.

All the best,
-Dunl1

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mattviphky
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Re: Schools for Overseas Jobs In United Kingdom

Postby mattviphky » Mon Jan 02, 2012 4:22 pm

notre dame has a year abroad in london. During the 2L year, students can study there...but I don't know if this translates in better job opportunities than staying state-side, although i'm sure that making contacts couldn't hurt. All this being said, I really don't know if ND really increases your chances in the UK, and even if they did, it would be a challenge to be admitted. NU and UVA are splitter friendly, but I don't know what the overseas prospects look like from these schools.

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Nelson
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Re: Schools for Overseas Jobs In United Kingdom

Postby Nelson » Mon Jan 02, 2012 4:23 pm

Pick a different career with an easier transfer overseas (try engineering or medicine) or obtain British residency and go through their legal education process. Getting an American law degree with the idea of practicing abroad is impractical at best and a total waste of time at worst.

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mattviphky
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Re: Schools for Overseas Jobs In United Kingdom

Postby mattviphky » Mon Jan 02, 2012 4:24 pm

btw, look up as much as you can on uk placement from WUSTL...i have a suspicion that you'll find their scholarship packet very enticing.

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mattviphky
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Re: Schools for Overseas Jobs In United Kingdom

Postby mattviphky » Mon Jan 02, 2012 4:27 pm

Nelson wrote:Pick a different career with an easier transfer overseas (try engineering or medicine) or obtain British residency and go through their legal education process. Getting an American law degree with the idea of practicing abroad is impractical at best and a total waste of time at worst.


it does seem like a strange career path given your life goals. why do you want to become a lawyer?

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Hawkeye Pierce
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Re: Schools for Overseas Jobs In United Kingdom

Postby Hawkeye Pierce » Mon Jan 02, 2012 4:43 pm

There have been some topics on this, they may give you a better idea of what it takes:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=159549

My guess is you would want to interview for Vault firms with London offices and/or interview for Magic Circle firms with NY offices ( viewtopic.php?f=23&t=166093 )

You would most likely be working on specialized transactional law focused on the American side if that were to happen.

So unless you go to a law school in the UK, I'm very sceptical that you would be able to make it to London via the big firm route.

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cinephile
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Re: Schools for Overseas Jobs In United Kingdom

Postby cinephile » Mon Jan 02, 2012 4:51 pm

Just do the 2 year conversion course at a university in the UK.

Dunl1
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Re: Schools for Overseas Jobs In United Kingdom

Postby Dunl1 » Mon Jan 02, 2012 4:56 pm

I spoke with my advisor and he made it seem like there were definitely opportunities for someone with a US law degree in the UK. I know lots of US firms have bases in Britain as well. I am considering law simply because it seems like what I would be best option. My undergraduate degree is in English with a minor in political science. Both my parents are lawyers. In order to get a job that can earn a decent living, you need to get a specialized education. Maybe I'm wrong, but this is just the way I see it. It's a specialized degree that will allow you to earn a good living in today's world and, based on my past record, it seems like the most logical path.
Last edited by Dunl1 on Mon Jan 02, 2012 4:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Dunl1
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Re: Schools for Overseas Jobs In United Kingdom

Postby Dunl1 » Mon Jan 02, 2012 4:56 pm

Hawkeye Pierce wrote:There have been some topics on this, they may give you a better idea of what it takes:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=159549

My guess is you would want to interview for Vault firms with London offices and/or interview for Magic Circle firms with NY offices ( viewtopic.php?f=23&t=166093 )

You would most likely be working on specialized transactional law focused on the American side if that were to happen.

So unless you go to a law school in the UK, I'm very sceptical that you would be able to make it to London via the big firm route.


Thanks for this. I'll look into both of these things now.

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Nelson
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Re: Schools for Overseas Jobs In United Kingdom

Postby Nelson » Mon Jan 02, 2012 5:03 pm

Dunl1 wrote:I spoke with my advisor and he made it seem like there were definitely opportunities for someone with a US law degree in the UK. I know lots of US firms have bases in Britain as well. I am considering law simply because it seems like what I would be best option. My undergraduate degree is in English with a minor in political science. Both my parents are lawyers. In order to get a job that can earn a decent living, you need to get a specialized education. Maybe I'm wrong, but this is just the way I see it. It's a specialized degree that will allow you to earn a good living in today's world and, based on my past record, it seems like the most logical path.


You need to do more research on the job market for JDs if you think this is a good line of reasoning.

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Hawkeye Pierce
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Re: Schools for Overseas Jobs In United Kingdom

Postby Hawkeye Pierce » Mon Jan 02, 2012 5:06 pm

Dunl1 wrote:I spoke with my advisor and he made it seem like there were definitely opportunities for someone with a US law degree in the UK. I know lots of US firms have bases in Britain as well. I am considering law simply because it seems like what I would be best option. My undergraduate degree is in English with a minor in political science. Both my parents are lawyers. In order to get a job that can earn a decent living, you need to get a specialized education. Maybe I'm wrong, but this is just the way I see it. It's a specialized degree that will allow you to earn a good living in today's world and, based on my past record, it seems like the most logical path.


This is a terrible reason for getting into law.

Go to law school if and only if you have a desire to practice law.

Your GPA is incredibly low -- the only t14 school you'd have a shot at is Northwestern w/ work experience and an LSAT in the 170s. Even then, I'm not sure if they dip that low. Otherwise, you're going to be looking at splitter havens in the Midwest like WUSTL, which place poorly with big firms (think top 10-15% ITE). So, really, unless you plan to get a degree in the UK, your chances of practicing law in the UK are minimal (they're not very high to begin with).

Think about what career you want to pursue. You seem to have a flawed notion of what the legal world is like; for the most part, it isn't a degree that will "allow you to earn a good living in today's world".

Dunl1
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Re: Schools for Overseas Jobs In United Kingdom

Postby Dunl1 » Mon Jan 02, 2012 5:08 pm

cinephile wrote:Just do the 2 year conversion course at a university in the UK.


I looked into that and it's definitely an option. Only problem is that it would be hard to ever return to the US and work there. That said, life is about decisions and it's hard to keep all doors open all the time. Maybe a conversion course and a move to the UK makes some sense.

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Nelson
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Re: Schools for Overseas Jobs In United Kingdom

Postby Nelson » Mon Jan 02, 2012 5:15 pm

Dunl1 wrote:
cinephile wrote:Just do the 2 year conversion course at a university in the UK.


I looked into that and it's definitely an option. Only problem is that it would be hard to ever return to the US and work there. That said, life is about decisions and it's hard to keep all doors open all the time. Maybe a conversion course and a move to the UK makes some sense.


The legal market in London is not doing better than the dismal state of the US and I doubt British firms look kindly on American carpetbaggers. Have you done any research into employment out of that kind of program?

Your desire to keep "doors open" suggests that law is the worst possible career for you, since it involves both a ton of debt and also locking yourself into the legal system of a particular country.

Being an English major is a terrible reason to go to law school. If your fiance has a career over there, you would be better off moving there and working at Tesco for awhile instead of dropping a ton of money on a degree that you probably don't really want and is far from being a guaranteed job ticket.

Dunl1
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Re: Schools for Overseas Jobs In United Kingdom

Postby Dunl1 » Mon Jan 02, 2012 5:23 pm

Hawkeye Pierce wrote:
Dunl1 wrote:I spoke with my advisor and he made it seem like there were definitely opportunities for someone with a US law degree in the UK. I know lots of US firms have bases in Britain as well. I am considering law simply because it seems like what I would be best option. My undergraduate degree is in English with a minor in political science. Both my parents are lawyers. In order to get a job that can earn a decent living, you need to get a specialized education. Maybe I'm wrong, but this is just the way I see it. It's a specialized degree that will allow you to earn a good living in today's world and, based on my past record, it seems like the most logical path.


This is a terrible reason for getting into law.

Go to law school if and only if you have a desire to practice law.

Your GPA is incredibly low -- the only t14 school you'd have a shot at is Northwestern w/ work experience and an LSAT in the 170s. Even then, I'm not sure if they dip that low. Otherwise, you're going to be looking at splitter havens in the Midwest like WUSTL, which place poorly with big firms (think top 10-15% ITE). So, really, unless you plan to get a degree in the UK, your chances of practicing law in the UK are minimal (they're not very high to begin with).

Think about what career you want to pursue. You seem to have a flawed notion of what the legal world is like; for the most part, it isn't a degree that will "allow you to earn a good living in today's world".


Thanks for your candor. I do know that it is a trade just like any other job. More so than other specialized jobs, a lot of legal success is about reputation and what one does once one has his/her your degree. It is not true that I have no desire to practice law. I am in interested in practicing law and I have enjoyed my work experience (both criminal defense work and plaintiffs work).

That said, being a lawyer isn't my dream, nor has it really ever been my dream. I do worry that I'm simply pursuing it as an "easy" route, which, in reality, is not all that easy. I do not want to wake up ten years down the line and regret being a lawyer. At the same time, I don't want to pursue a "dream" and wake up decades down the line without a stable career and unable to support my family in the way that my family supported me. It's a time of lot's of possibilities, but it's time to commit to a possibility.

I do possess all of the necessary legal skills: writing, argumentation, logical analysis, research and reading, etc. I really do! And I really do enjoy using them. I don't think it will make for a bad career and like all things in life, it's not necessarily permanent or forever. A law degree can be valuable in a lot of different ways. Perhaps my lack of impassioned enthusiasm will rub some people the wrong way around here, because, after all, this website self-selects for the hardcore legal dreamers. They find their way onto a website and they may find me and my unimpassioned ambivalence a little bit off-putting. It's not that I do not like the law and it's not that I don't get excited about it. ItI've been around it my whole life. It has felt predestined. It can also be a bit of a grind, just like anything else. But it's also good work and I know that I can be happy doing it.

I am rambling a bit but learning as I go along.

Dunl1
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Re: Schools for Overseas Jobs In United Kingdom

Postby Dunl1 » Mon Jan 02, 2012 5:31 pm

I'm also extremely tired today-- I am generally much more excited and enthusiastic about the whole possibility. I would really like to be a lawyer. It does excite me and I look forward to it. For whatever reason, I think I tend not to show that so much.

keg411
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Re: Schools for Overseas Jobs In United Kingdom

Postby keg411 » Mon Jan 02, 2012 6:10 pm

There are reasons for you not to go to law school despite whatever your enthusiasm is. Move to the UK with your girlfriend, work for a bit to figure out your life, and then decide if you want to go to law school.

It would work out fine if you just wanted to work with one of your parents locally and they could hook you up with a job, but that you want to work overseas complicates things tremendously, so I'd suggest you consider putting off law school for a while.

Dunl1
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Re: Schools for Overseas Jobs In United Kingdom

Postby Dunl1 » Mon Jan 02, 2012 6:17 pm

keg411 wrote:There are reasons for you not to go to law school despite whatever your enthusiasm is. Move to the UK with your girlfriend, work for a bit to figure out your life, and then decide if you want to go to law school.

It would work out fine if you just wanted to work with one of your parents locally and they could hook you up with a job, but that you want to work overseas complicates things tremendously, so I'd suggest you consider putting off law school for a while.


Thank you.

Dunl1
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Re: Schools for Overseas Jobs In United Kingdom

Postby Dunl1 » Mon Jan 02, 2012 6:23 pm

mattviphky wrote:btw, look up as much as you can on uk placement from WUSTL...i have a suspicion that you'll find their scholarship packet very enticing.


Thank you.

bracton
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Re: Schools for Overseas Jobs In United Kingdom

Postby bracton » Mon Jan 02, 2012 7:02 pm

Dunl1 - pm me; I can give some advice. There is some accurate stuff in this thread and some less accurate stuff.

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FlanAl
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Re: Schools for Overseas Jobs In United Kingdom

Postby FlanAl » Mon Jan 02, 2012 7:54 pm

2 year conversion ftw for sure! if you make your girlfriend (fiancé? i can't remember) your wife you could get citizenship and then go to school for very cheap by us standards (like 20k for law school debt not 200k). Since you went to Duke you could probably also get into a fairly good program since they love the prestige over there almost as much as here. also if your worry is getting back to the us eventually let eventually happen when it happens, right now you want to be in england and practice law in england so you might as well do that. if you want to come back and practice law in the us word is that it is hard but I'd imagine you'd have the same difficulty if you had a us jd and wanted to come back to the us after only practicing in england.




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