FULL RIDE USD vs NO MONEY BOALT

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Kimberly
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FULL RIDE USD vs NO MONEY BOALT

Postby Kimberly » Fri Dec 23, 2011 9:18 pm

This may seem like a stupid question to some but a VERY difficult choice for me. Here are my specific details that make it so difficult:

Pros for staying in SD (financially driven):
1. I am already established as a professional in the San Diego area
2. I already have 250K in scholastic debt from undergrad and grad school
3. I own property in SD and would not have to rent/sell (major hassle bias)
4. I am coming from a high-income job and will NOT qualify for government aid because of it.

Pros for going Berkeley (ambition driven):
1. Would LOVE the change of scenery
2. Better job prospects for my significant other
3. My real goal is legal academics (though I could settle for non-legal academics going to USD- already established in that world)
4. Being ambitious in my niche area of interest is much easier if you went to better schools than other people in my niche area of interest
5. My advisor won't disown me (which will not be the case should I choose USD)

whadayathink?

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NoleinNY
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Re: FULL RIDE USD vs NO MONEY BOALT

Postby NoleinNY » Fri Dec 23, 2011 9:20 pm

Kimberly wrote:This may seem like a stupid question to some but a VERY difficult choice for me. Here are my specific details that make it so difficult:

Pros for staying in SD (financially driven):
1. I am already established as a professional in the San Diego area
2. I already have 250K in scholastic debt from undergrad and grad school
3. I own property in SD and would not have to rent/sell (major hassle bias)
4. I am coming from a high-income job and will NOT qualify for government aid because of it.

Pros for going Berkeley (ambition driven):
1. Would LOVE the change of scenery
2. Better job prospects for my significant other
3. My real goal is legal academics (though I could settle for non-legal academics going to USD- already established in that world)
4. Being ambitious in my niche area of interest is much easier if you went to better schools than other people in my niche area of interest
5. My advisor won't disown me (which will not be the case should I choose USD)

whadayathink?


I was about to vote Boalt until I saw what I bolded... I'd take the money. What kind of prospects would your SO be turning down by staying in SD?

Kimberly
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Re: FULL RIDE USD vs NO MONEY BOALT

Postby Kimberly » Fri Dec 23, 2011 9:23 pm

NoleinNY wrote:
Kimberly wrote:This may seem like a stupid question to some but a VERY difficult choice for me. Here are my specific details that make it so difficult:

Pros for staying in SD (financially driven):
1. I am already established as a professional in the San Diego area
2. I already have 250K in scholastic debt from undergrad and grad school
3. I own property in SD and would not have to rent/sell (major hassle bias)
4. I am coming from a high-income job and will NOT qualify for government aid because of it.

Pros for going Berkeley (ambition driven):
1. Would LOVE the change of scenery
2. Better job prospects for my significant other
3. My real goal is legal academics (though I could settle for non-legal academics going to USD- already established in that world)
4. Being ambitious in my niche area of interest is much easier if you went to better schools than other people in my niche area of interest
5. My advisor won't disown me (which will not be the case should I choose USD)

whadayathink?


I was about to vote Boalt until I saw what I bolded... I'd take the money. What kind of prospects would your SO be turning down by staying in SD?


The legal academy would be 100% out for me if I go USD, right? Am I wrong about that?

071816
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Re: FULL RIDE USD vs NO MONEY BOALT

Postby 071816 » Fri Dec 23, 2011 9:24 pm

Your situation is quite unique. Due to your established life in SD and your exorbitant amount of undergrad/grad school debt, I would go with USD here if the full ride scholly comes with no stipulations (other than perhaps a "good standing" stipulation).

ETA: Why do you even want to go to law school if you already have a good job? You likely won't get academia out of either school.

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NoleinNY
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Re: FULL RIDE USD vs NO MONEY BOALT

Postby NoleinNY » Fri Dec 23, 2011 9:28 pm

Kimberly wrote:
I was about to vote Boalt until I saw what I bolded... I'd take the money. What kind of prospects would your SO be turning down by staying in SD?


The legal academy would be 100% out for me if I go USD, right? Am I wrong about that?[/quote]

Not 100%... More like 98%. It's possible, but improbable. Chimp is right, it is also improbable (admittedly, to a lesser extent) to get academia from Boalt, too.

Kimberly
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Re: FULL RIDE USD vs NO MONEY BOALT

Postby Kimberly » Fri Dec 23, 2011 9:34 pm

chimp wrote:Your situation is quite unique. Due to your established life in SD and your exorbitant amount of undergrad/grad school debt, I would go with USD here if the full ride scholly comes with no stipulations (other than perhaps a "good standing" stipulation).

ETA: Why do you even want to go to law school if you already have a good job?


Being a respected and successful professional in my niche area of interest is much more attainable with both the JD and my other grad degree. I look at it more as taking the next step in my career path... not switching careers. And, "good pay" is not the only requirement of "good job" in my view of the world. I look at choosing a profession much like I look at finding a spouse-- you may have the opportunity to settle down with a good person in your life, and settling down with that person might seem like the easiest and not-so-very-unpleasant course, but making the difficult choice to give up what you have to find your "soul mate" could transform your life from average to EXUBERANT! Your chosen spouse and your chosen career are the two factors in life that will make or break you. I live by that. FWIW.

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Grizz
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Re: FULL RIDE USD vs NO MONEY BOALT

Postby Grizz » Fri Dec 23, 2011 9:36 pm

lol don't give up a good job to go to USD hoping for the legal academy when you have $250k debt. Terrible idea.

Kimberly
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Re: FULL RIDE USD vs NO MONEY BOALT

Postby Kimberly » Fri Dec 23, 2011 9:36 pm

NoleinNY wrote:
Kimberly wrote:
I was about to vote Boalt until I saw what I bolded... I'd take the money. What kind of prospects would your SO be turning down by staying in SD?


The legal academy would be 100% out for me if I go USD, right? Am I wrong about that?


Not 100%... More like 98%. It's possible, but improbable. Chimp is right, it is also improbable (admittedly, to a lesser extent) to get academia from Boalt, too.[/quote]


Hmmm.... really? The Leiter rankings show that Boalt places into the academy after HYS.
http://leiterrankings.com/new/2011_LawTeachers.shtml

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YourCaptain
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Re: FULL RIDE USD vs NO MONEY BOALT

Postby YourCaptain » Fri Dec 23, 2011 9:39 pm

Grizz wrote:lol don't give up a good job to go to USD hoping for the legal academy when you have $250k debt. Terrible idea.


srsly dude why would you ever do this

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Grizz
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Re: FULL RIDE USD vs NO MONEY BOALT

Postby Grizz » Fri Dec 23, 2011 9:40 pm

Look, it's not really a good idea to go to law school hoping for legal academia. Period.

Kimberly
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Re: FULL RIDE USD vs NO MONEY BOALT

Postby Kimberly » Fri Dec 23, 2011 9:42 pm

Grizz wrote:Look, it's not really a good idea to go to law school hoping for legal academia. Period.


This isn't very helpful. Someone has to want it. Who else would end up in legal academics if not those who seek it?

071816
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Re: FULL RIDE USD vs NO MONEY BOALT

Postby 071816 » Fri Dec 23, 2011 9:43 pm

Do you know what attorneys do or how hard it is to get legal academia? I wouldn't just assume that law is your "soul mate" just yet.

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YourCaptain
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Re: FULL RIDE USD vs NO MONEY BOALT

Postby YourCaptain » Fri Dec 23, 2011 9:43 pm

Kimberly wrote:
Grizz wrote:Look, it's not really a good idea to go to law school hoping for legal academia. Period.


This isn't very helpful. Someone has to want it. Who else would end up in legal academics if not those who seek it?


people who go to hys...

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NoleinNY
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Re: FULL RIDE USD vs NO MONEY BOALT

Postby NoleinNY » Fri Dec 23, 2011 9:44 pm

What kind of work do you do now and why are you intent on leaving it?

EDIT: Or, rather, what were you studying and how was this part of the plan?
Last edited by NoleinNY on Fri Dec 23, 2011 9:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Grizz
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Re: FULL RIDE USD vs NO MONEY BOALT

Postby Grizz » Fri Dec 23, 2011 9:44 pm

Kimberly wrote:
Grizz wrote:Look, it's not really a good idea to go to law school hoping for legal academia. Period.


This isn't very helpful. Someone has to want it. Who else would end up in legal academics if not those who seek it?

Sure you can hope for it, but because the chances of you actually getting it are so small, it's not worth picking a school because of academia placement.

Kimberly
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Re: FULL RIDE USD vs NO MONEY BOALT

Postby Kimberly » Fri Dec 23, 2011 9:47 pm

chimp wrote:Do you know what attorneys do or how hard it is to get legal academia? I wouldn't just assume that law is your "soul mate" just yet.


I have an idea of how hard it is. It doesn't really discourage me because I have fairly a fairly secure "fall back" as a physician. My assumption is an educated assumption. That is the best one can ask for in a situation such as this but I appreciate your pessimism. Thanks.

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NoleinNY
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Re: FULL RIDE USD vs NO MONEY BOALT

Postby NoleinNY » Fri Dec 23, 2011 9:48 pm

Kimberly wrote:
chimp wrote:Do you know what attorneys do or how hard it is to get legal academia? I wouldn't just assume that law is your "soul mate" just yet.


I have an idea of how hard it is. It doesn't really discourage me because I have fairly a fairly secure "fall back" as a physician. My assumption is an educated assumption. That is the best one can ask for in a situation such as this but I appreciate your pessimism. Thanks.


You have a MD?

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Hawkeye Pierce
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Re: FULL RIDE USD vs NO MONEY BOALT

Postby Hawkeye Pierce » Fri Dec 23, 2011 9:49 pm

Kimberly wrote:
chimp wrote:Do you know what attorneys do or how hard it is to get legal academia? I wouldn't just assume that law is your "soul mate" just yet.


I have an idea of how hard it is. It doesn't really discourage me because I have fairly a fairly secure "fall back" as a physician. My assumption is an educated assumption. That is the best one can ask for in a situation such as this but I appreciate your pessimism. Thanks.


Wait.

So your options are:

a) go to a bad law school
b) incur an additional quarter million dollars of debt
c) be a physician?

Why in God's name would you not pick C?

Kimberly
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Re: FULL RIDE USD vs NO MONEY BOALT

Postby Kimberly » Fri Dec 23, 2011 9:50 pm

NoleinNY wrote:What kind of work do you do now and why are you intent on leaving it?

EDIT: Or, rather, what were you studying and how was this part of the plan?


Without going into the fine details of my years-long decision process and philosophy, I am a physician. I am interested in health policy. Does that alter your advice for me?

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acrossthelake
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Re: FULL RIDE USD vs NO MONEY BOALT

Postby acrossthelake » Fri Dec 23, 2011 9:50 pm

Grizz wrote:Look, it's not really a good idea to go to law school hoping for legal academia. Period.


So first, there's this.

I have a friend pursuing legal academia, but she was really top of her class at one of those top 4 schools listed there. (Going to stay vague here for her privacy). But she knew that it only started to become a viable career path after she got her 1st year grades back. She has other plans if that doesn't work out, like going to a biglaw firm.

Second, you're misreading those rankings a little, or misspeaking. It's Chicago that's grouped in with YHS.

This says that since 1995, Berkeley has produced 15 graduates who have found placement at whatever 43 leading whatever was. Over 15 years, 15 people. So maybe one a year? You're going to need to be really towards the TOP of your class to have a shot. I wouldn't really make any sort of money gamble on that.

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Grizz
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Re: FULL RIDE USD vs NO MONEY BOALT

Postby Grizz » Fri Dec 23, 2011 9:51 pm

Seriously with 250k in the hole you have no business going to law school.

Kimberly
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Re: FULL RIDE USD vs NO MONEY BOALT

Postby Kimberly » Fri Dec 23, 2011 9:52 pm

acrossthelake wrote:
Grizz wrote:Look, it's not really a good idea to go to law school hoping for legal academia. Period.


So first, there's this.

I have a friend pursuing legal academia, but she was really top of her class at one of those top 4 schools listed there. (Going to stay vague here for her privacy sake). But she knew that it only started to become a viable career path after she got her 1st year grades back. She has other plans if that doesn't work out, like going to a biglaw firm.

Second, you're misreading those rankings a little, or misspeaking. It's Chicago that's grouped in with YHS.

This says that since 1995, Berkeley has produced 15 graduates who have found placement at whatever 43 leading whatever was. Over 15 years, 15 people. So maybe one a year? You're going to need to be really towards the TOP of your class to have a shot. I wouldn't really make any sort of money gamble on that.


This is helpful.

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acrossthelake
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Re: FULL RIDE USD vs NO MONEY BOALT

Postby acrossthelake » Fri Dec 23, 2011 9:54 pm

Also, what was the weak spot in your apps? LSAT? GPA? Your goals are fairly ambitious. You'd be be better off positioned at like...Chicago...if you really want to do this.

ETA: Strong GPA in light of the fact you probably did premed, though not that helpful cuz of LSAC reasons. Hrmmm. If your LSAT were higher you'd probably get Chicago. Did you at least apply this cycle?

Oh, right, and wherever you go, if you get your grades back and they aren't viable for academia, I suppose you could just drop out then and go back to being a physician.

Kimberly
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Re: FULL RIDE USD vs NO MONEY BOALT

Postby Kimberly » Fri Dec 23, 2011 9:58 pm

acrossthelake wrote:Also, what was the weak spot in your apps? LSAT? GPA? Your goals are fairly ambitious. You'd be be better off positioned at like...Chicago...if you really want to do this.


LSAT is 167-170 range. GPA is 3.6-3.8 range in basic sciences. I took the LSAT once. Did it while working 80 hours per week. Don't have any interest/time for retake. I am an old lady as it is. FWIW I haven't been rejected from Chicago yet. Also haven't been rejected from HYS yet (though I will be, as I am sure you will all be quick to point out as per the usual around here).

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Grizz
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Re: FULL RIDE USD vs NO MONEY BOALT

Postby Grizz » Fri Dec 23, 2011 9:59 pm

Get awesome grades -> journal (preferably law review) -> [big firm] -> prestigious clerkship (sometimes several) -> [firm or govt] -> academy

The path to academy looks somewhat like this. While you're doing this, you have to be publishing relevant stuff that people actually want to read. It's just not something to go to law school expecting ex ante to do.
Last edited by Grizz on Fri Dec 23, 2011 10:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.




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